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Fuel costs & surrounding debates Vol 6 [Read Only] - Dynamic Dave

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 7 *****

This is a sub forum to discuss the problems associated with the ever increasing cost of fuel.

This is Volume 6. It will be locked after 100 replies and another volume opened.

Usual rules apply.

Any newly opened threads surrounding fuel costs will be moved in here.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/07/2008 at 19:52

The £9 gallon is now here!! - a900ss
How to make money from a crisis:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm
The £9 gallon is now here!! - sir_hiss
Claims to have done this to conserve stock but more likely as a publicity stunt and a bit of free advertising. You apparently get £24 off next MOT if you buy any. I'd be more concerned with garages who have maybe put 10 or 20 pence on per litre when supply is tight which may not be noticed quite as much by the panicky motorist as they fill up.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - L'escargot
Supply and demand.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - a900ss
So assuming people remember the £9 gallon from this garage, when supplies are back to normal, demand could possibly fall from this garage as people are free to take their business anywhere....

Edited by a900ss (S-Max) on 17/06/2008 at 10:18

The £9 gallon is now here!! - Mapmaker
.>> So assuming people remember the £9 gallon from this garage when supplies are back to
normal demand could possibly fall from this garage as people are free to take their
business anywhere....


Not at all. From the BBC: Nearly 600 petrol stations in Devon and Cornwall ran out of supplies on the final day of an industrial dispute by tanker drivers over pay

I know one petrol station that has acted to preserve its stocks, where I can guarantee I shall always be able to fill up. Very sensible to harbour stocks carefully. Price is much the best method of rationing.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - Robin Reliant
When supplies are back to normal, locals should maks a point of boycotting this garage to the point where it goes out of business.

They won't of course, but it would be great if they did and sent out a warning to anyone considering doing the same in the future.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - jbif
locals should maks a point of boycotting this garage to the point where it goes out of business.


By doing so, the "locals" would in fact be doing two things.

1. ensuring that they have to travel further to buy the fuel they need, as they would not be able to buy it locally.
2. by helping the owner join the growing number of forecourts closing down, they would be doing the owner a favour - as he would find that the value realised from the sale of his site is far greater when sold on as a non-petrol forecourt, and he can move on to some other sales with a better margin.

These type of posts [Robin Reliant, a900ss, etc.] demonstrate that in Britain the anti-business attitude is rife, probably as a result of years of living in a nanny state depending on state handouts and state control. I wonder how many people realise that the electricity they consume everyday is bought by the National Grid company bidding for marginal power supplies - sometimes at huge multiples of the "normal" prices in order to keep the juice flowing at times of peak demand.
spot prices for electricity:
www.bmreports.com/servlet/com.logica.neta.bwp_Stat...T

The £9 gallon is now here!! - Alby Back
Whether or not this guy made a good or bad business decision is one thing. I guess there are arguments for and against.

However, to throw another thought in the pot, for all those who now wish him ill. If you think he is guilty of not supporting or standing by his local community and should in some way be punished for that, just take a few minutes to consider your own actions. Take a look at the labels on your goods. Did you buy clothes and shoes produced in Britain? Did you buy them from a local or at least British owned business? Did you conciously try to buy a UK produced car? Is the food in your fridge of British origin? Did you buy it from the local shop? ( if it is still there ) Where did your wine or beer come from? Where do you spend your holidays? See what I mean?

He was looking after No.1, same as everyone else. Great pity, but unfortunately that is how life is now.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - Robin Reliant
He was looking after No.1 same as everyone else. Great pity but unfortunately that is
how life is now.

Exactly.

So let's all look after No.1 by sending a message out to other garage owners that if they profiteer at our expense during a shortage we will make sure they can't do it again.

Free markets work both ways.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - Alby Back
I really am not seeking to make a judgement or express an opinion on whether this was right or wrong or indeed whether group retaliation is the appropriate response. What I am saddened by is how succinctly this whole sorry affair reflects our society's current values and councelling against a knee-jerk response. Or as it was anciently and far more concisely put " let he who is without sin cast the first stone " Anyway, if it makes people feel better, cast away. Who cares, it's too late in any event.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - jbif
Shoespy - I agree entirely.

It is not as if people have never seen demand led pricing. It has been around on the railways for years - for example, a off peak day-return ticket often costing less than half of two singles. This pricing model is also used extensively by airlines such as Ryanair and Easyjet. The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive seats on the same flight can be huge for the same seat depending on the demand.

This pricing model is now being tested by a London car park.
www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/10-06-08
"The Queensway car park in Westminster will charge commuter just 20p an hour when the 250 capacity car park is empty; however as it fills up the price will increase to a maximum of £2 an hour."

No one has been howling that the car park should be blacklisted or that it is profiteering when the charge rises to £2 from 20p !

The £9 gallon is now here!! - ForumNeedsModerating
Well jbif, I'm not sure you've fully considered this.

By doing so, the "locals" would in fact be doing two things.

1. ensuring that they have to travel further to buy the fuel they need, as they would not be able to buy it locally.


Why? Couldn't another buyer of the garage run it as a garage? Nothing to say it can't be sold as a garage even if the curreny owner goes out of business. In fact, if it is a 'local' garage with few others nearby it will be a positive selling point.

2. by helping the owner join the growing number of forecourts closing down, they would be doing the owner a favour - as he would find that the value realised from the sale of his site is far greater when sold on as a non-petrol forecourt, and he can move on to some other sales with a better margin.

What better value? De-commissioning a fuel station site & making it appropriate for other business (let alone residential developement) purposes is very expensive. Factor in the slump of property prices in general & commercial property in particluar, and there isn't a compelling (or even sensible) case for this.

These type of posts [Robin Reliant, a900ss, etc.] demonstrate that in Britain the anti-business attitude is rife, probably as a result of years of living in a nanny state depending on state handouts and state control.

Eh? Why does complaining about exceptional pricing strategies somehow qualify you for a 'Red Robbo' tag - in every area of consumerism & business purchase seeking out best-price is the cornerstone of a successful & healthy capitalist system. The garage owner made his play - it will probably be counter-productive in the long run - that's life & capitalism I'm afraid.

I wonder how many people realise that the electricity they consume everyday is bought by the National Grid company bidding for marginal power supplies - sometimes at huge multiples of the "normal" prices in order to keep the juice flowing at times of peak demand.

Even if true - it's vastly different to local price spiking by an individual enterprise. Any extra cost for marginal electricity supply is diluted amongst millions (probably) of consumers - not foisted upon a few poor individuals who live near the power station. The true cost of 'spot prices' is to lower the overall on-line capacity needs of the power company - if you can buy the (exceptional) ocassional extra supply it saves the cost of building & running an under utilised power station.

No, the owner made a poor business decision in my opinion. Irrespective of any dispassionate analysis by strict supply-demand economics, the owner will be seen by his customer base as having profited excessively by his actions - we will see if they vote with their 'feet' on this, but I guess they will.
The £9 gallon is now here!! - jbif
Nothing to say it can't be sold as a garage

If the punters have deserted that site, why should they come back just because while driving by they see a sign "under new management"? It could just be the same old management hiding behind a sign?
What better value? ... and there isn't a compelling (or even sensible) case for this.

So you say. The link I posted in another thread says that the economics are different.
Even if true

Easy to check that it is indeed true if you were bothered.
No, the owner made a poor business decision in my opinion.

You are entitled to it.
we will see if they vote with their 'feet' on this, but I guess they will.

Your guess is as good as mine.

OK, now I have to get back to motoring.

The £9 gallon is now here!! - ForumNeedsModerating
>> Nothing to say it can't be sold as a garage
If the punters have deserted that site, why should they come back just because while driving by they see a sign "under new management"? It could just be the same old management hiding behind a sign?


Happens all the time - and successfully too. If it was previous owner 'hiding behind a sign' as you put, I'm sure in a small or locally based business this ruse would soon be spilled!


>> What better value? ... and there isn't a compelling (or even sensible) case for this.
So you say. The link I posted in another thread says that the economics are different.


If the argument (or link to it) isn't on this page, I can hardly address it can I? I address the post, as posted.

Easy to check that it is indeed true if you were bothered.

My substantive point didn't dispute it - the paragraph started 'Even if' because I hadn't verified it myself & assumed you were correct. Why not address the subsequent argument?

OK, now I have to get back to motoring.

!?
Deafened by the silence! - barney100
Our glorious government has been silent over any moves to ease the burden on fuel and ved costs to we motorists, any predictions? Heres mine......2p rise in fuel duty scrapped in October to make way for a 10p rise to pay for the mp's salary increase.
Fuel costs - Ben 10
Reading the Mail on Sunday today 22.06.08, it appears the emergency services are suffering with the high cost of fuel. This will mean cuts to frontline services. Unlike the haulage industry who can pass on higher costs to their customers these services cannot.
The whole infrastructure of this country is being slowly strangled and it needs tough action from Gordon Brown.
It is no good dilly dallying with a few pence off fuel, he needs to slash it as a minimum by 50% or go the whole hog and reduce it to zero. They'll find other ways to fill the coffers, but taking this drastic action will give a lifeline to the economy and give hope to all of us who are burdened with below inflation pay rises and astronomical high bills across the board for everything. We all need to see some light at the end of the tunnel, and this action could provide it.
Getting the service infrastructure moving and cheaply would surely cool inflation. It would mean people excepting below inflation pay rises, if they feel they are getting something back. Otherwise I can see this country slipping in the next couple of years from a recession into a depression. A forecast I heard over a year ago. Now is time for Gordon Brown to show his mettle and nip his political demise in the bud.
Fuel costs - FotheringtonThomas
What? I don't believe it. I hardly ever see a police car, let alone a policeman. If petrol's *that* expensive, re-allocate the cost of a tankful and buy 'em each a bicycle, that would save money in other ways, too.
Fuel costs - Alby Back
Put up their prices to their customers ? Um....no. Any service or product provider who tries right now to say to their corporate customers. " Ah well I'm afraid I'm just going to have to charge you more because my fuel costs have gone up..." will be met with an icy stare at best or more likely outbid by a competitor. Just won't happen. The only certain outcome is yet more collapsing service businesses.
Fuel costs - bintang
Any service or product provider who
tries right now to say to their corporate customers. " Ah well I'm afraid I'm
just going to have to charge you more because my fuel costs have gone up..."
will be met with an icy stare at best or more likely outbid by a
competitor.


In the short term maybe, depending on how many alternative suppliers exist. In the end, in a capitalist society and taking industry as a whole, costs are bound to be reflected in selling prices i.e. are met by buyers.
Fuel costs - BobbyG
Shoespy, read some commentary on Stobarts recent financial results. They were very clear to point out that the fuel increases did not affect them as all their contracts had protection from increases built in.

Thats not to say, of course, that their client doesn't go out of business as a result!
Fuel costs - Kevin
>it appears the emergency services are suffering with the high cost of fuel. This will mean cuts to
>frontline services.

For heavens sake!

First of all, the Treasury is coining it in from higher tax receipts from oil revenues and fuel. It is Gordon's glove puppet's decision whether any of that is used to offset higher fuel bills for the emergency services.

>Unlike the haulage industry who can pass on higher costs to their customers these services cannot.

Very, very funny! Just keep an eye on your taxes.

>The whole infrastructure of this country is being slowly strangled and it needs tough action from Gordon Brown.

Ignoring the fact that Gordon Brown was the architect of our current financial mess, what makes you think that he understands or even cares? At PMQs he didn't have a clue what the price of a litre of fuel was.

>Now is time for Gordon Brown to show his mettle and nip his political demise in the bud.

Mettle? Are we talking about the same Gordon Brown?

Nip it in the bud? He's a Dead Man Walking and he knows it.

Kevin...
Fuel costs - wotspur

We know its easy to solve, but then none of us are politicians, we live in the real world.

There is no real benefit charging Govt funded vehicles exhorbitant fuel prices -every Emergency vehicle could be filled up with fuel that is dyed, similalrly to agricultural vehicles and could be FREE

Currently high costs are incured, taxes go to govt coffers, then more monies have to be allocated to cover these costs-more civil servants need to be employed -costing zillions- but keeping people in work - oh thats where my scheme fails -ce la vie

Fuel costs - Dog
The ill *con*ceived invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan + the Northern Wreak fiasco have cost you - the tax payer, Billions and Billions and Billions of pounds, so , you the taxpayer will have to suffer - as always, whether its Labour, Tory, or wishy washy Libdem ... you won't see the Bourgeoisie driving a diesel 206
Fuel costs - L'escargot
burdened with below inflation pay rises .......


........... and pensions. Don't forget pensioners. I'm not moaning, but just explaining, that my occupational pension (and that of lots of other pensioners) is virtually fixed for life.

Edited by L'escargot on 23/06/2008 at 08:44

Fuel costs - oilrag
Perhaps if that constant `buzzing bluebottle` in the sky (AKA W/Yorks Police helicopter) that always seems to be circling our house. (and everyone else`s when you ask them) could be held back a bit..

The saving on servicing ,pilots and fuel, would likely put 300 Plod on LE Velocettes back on the manor.




Edited by oilrag on 23/06/2008 at 09:22

Fuel costs - Collos25
I would like to bet that the whirlybird is more cost effective than a platoon of plastic support officers.
Fuel costs - oldnotbold
Funnily enough the whirlybird is running on Jet A1, which is not taxed anything like as much as road fuel, 5% from memory. AVGAS is taxed at the same rate as road fuel, I'm fairly sure.
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - drivewell
My Grandpa said it would happen, and he has been proved right!

IIRC, in the weeks before D-Day (15th February 1971, FYI) a gallon of petrol was 6/6d (we pronounced it "six and sixpence"). Now that, in 'new' money, should have been 32.5p.

But what happened within weeks of decimalisation? Petrol (shock horror) at (drum role) 35p per gallon!

Decimalisation was what started run away petrol prices. Let's go back to a more simple way of counting. 20 shillings in a pound and twelve pennies in a shilling. So much easier to understand.

NB. Prices stated were for a gallon. A nice, dependable Imperial Gallon. None of your namby pamby, oh so European litres!
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - drivewell
POST SCRIPT

Grandpa died that year - I guess it was all too much for him to bear!
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - L'escargot
IIRC in the weeks before D-Day (15th February 1971 FYI)


D-Day was 6th June 1944, the day of the Allied landings in Normandy. tinyurl.com/9yo6b

The day money went decimal is trivial in comparison.
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - nick
But it was known as D-Day at the time, IIRC and I well remember prices being rounded up, never down, and many hidden price hikes as people took a while to get to grips with the new money.

Edited by nick on 23/06/2008 at 10:08

Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - L'escargot
I well remember prices
being rounded up never down and many hidden price hikes as people took a while
to get to grips with the new money.


A lot of decimal equivalent prices were calculated on the basis of 1p = 2d, instead of the correct relationship of 1p = 2.4d, giving instant price rises of 20%. People who clamour for Britain adopting the Euro should bear this in mind, because I'm sure a similar thing will happen if and when it comes about.
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - Ian (Cape Town)
Every time a 'new'system comes in, some rogues are going to make money out of it...
Decimalisation, Metric weights and measures, Euro, budget increases on beer, fags, fuel duty etc.
As mentioned in previous threads, our local fuel price is govt controlled, and increases at 0h01 on the first Wednesday of the month.
Amazingly, some stations always seem to 'run out' of certain fuels on Tuesday evenings, yet lo-and-behold, plenty of stock come 2am...
A local paper ran a story about it once. The practice still goes on.
Another stunt was when they 'reprogrammed' the credit card/till computers early on Tuesday, so only one was working at the 'old' price, hence HUGE queues, and a lot of folk said 's*d this!'and left without filling up ...
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - rogue-trooper
When the Euro came in it was made illegal for people to round up "too" much.

However I believe that there was a quaint story about professional ladies. Where they used to charge say 500 francs, they decided to round up as they thought punters wouldn't want to hang around for change. I can't remember whether they went to ?100 or not (which is 655FF)
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - drivewell
People who clamour for Britain adopting the Euro should bear this in mind because I'm
sure a similar thing will happen if and when it comes about.


I have family who live in Eire, and they can give plenty examples of that happening when they adopted the Euro.
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - drivewell
>> IIRC in the weeks before D-Day (15th February 1971 FYI)
D-Day was 6th June 1944 the day of the Allied landings in Normandy. tinyurl.com/9yo6b
The day money went decimal is trivial in comparison.


Couldn't agree more, L'escargot. Did not mean in anyway to compare the 1971 'D-day' with 6th June 1944. My grandfather's brother was there (and indeed survived Grandpa by 30 years)
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - Cliff Pope
"The earliest use of these terms by the U.S. Army that the Center of Military History has been able to find was during World War I. In Field Order Number 9, First Army, American Expeditionary Forces, dated 7 September 1918: "The First Army will attack at H hour on D day with the object of forcing the evacuation of the St. Mihiel Salient."


Wikepedia.
It's the standard military parlance for any planned operation that is too secret to give it a more open name, but those in the know know what is planned and when.
Petrol costs - blame decimalisation - welshlad
it a more open name but those in the know know what is planned and
when.

i take it you've never been in the army, otherwise you'd know that those in the know generally dont know half of what everyone else knows about what is a need to know but usually is known by all except those in the know

Edited by welshlad on 23/06/2008 at 14:16

Fuel price consequences - Statistical outlier
A horrific sign of how things could go if fuel prices keep escalating:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7469216.stm
Fuel price consequences - Mapmaker
Nonsense. People have been nicking diesel for decades.


(Yes, a tragic story, but nothing new under the sun.)
Fuel price consequences - MVP
Not that bad but some scumbag broke the fuel tap off of our small boat outboard last week for 2 litres of 2 stroke mix

MVP
Fuel price consequences - Statistical outlier
Nicking for decades - absolutely, but it has been fairly rare. I'm wondering if it's going to get a lot more common now it's more financially worth it. A friend of mine had his tank drilled and emptied of unleaded while visiting Padstow the other month. They got about £40 of fuel, causing about £800 damage.
Fuel price consequences - Roly93
Nonsense. People have been nicking diesel for decades.

I think you guys are forgetting that theft of heating oil (kerosene) has increased 100's of percent in the last year or so. Who would normally nick this ?
Fuel price consequences - L'escargot
I think you guys are forgetting that theft of heating oil (kerosene) has increased 100's
of percent in the last year or so. Who would normally nick this ?


Presumably someone who has oil-fired heating. From December 2007 to May 2008 (5 months) the price went up 36%.
Fuel price consequences - Whisky
As said on top gear last night, theres an awful lot of money riding around in tankers now.
Fuel price consequences - oilrag
I think central heating oil is virtually diesel, isn`t it?
Fuel price consequences - Alby Back
When I lived in rural Scotland there were those ( not me I hasten to splutter ) who ran their old style diesel cars on it all the time.
Fuel price consequences - defender
heating oil needs a lubricant in it to be used as diesel but veg oil does this job .
it will however burn ok in a petrol engine once it is hot
Fuel price consequences - welshlad
if only there was a way of harnessing the power of SWMBO's jaw it would be a lifetimes worth of non-stop energy
Fuel price consequences - Lud
'You are old,' said the youth, 'and your jaws are too weak
For anything tougher than suet;
Yet you finished the goose, with the bones and the beak:
Pray, how did you manage to do it?'

'In my youth,' said the sage, 'I took to the law,
And argued each case with my wife;
And the muscular strength which it gave to my jaw
Has lasted the rest of my life.'

Lewis Carroll (Father William)

Quoted from memory so perhaps not word perfect

Edited by Lud on 23/06/2008 at 18:47

Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - oldnotbold
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7474937.stm

"Rob Sweeting, a lorry driver from west Yorkshire, said he had been served with a "notice of intended prosecution" following the protest."

He can't have been speeding, surely? What other offences can a NIP be issued for?
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Dynamic Dave
His protest was a 'go slow' one, so presumably the NIP was issued for impeding other people?
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Round The Bend
Good. Should issue NIPs to all of the other idiots who joined in too.

Offences: Obstructing the public highway, wasting police time, wasting fuel, boorish behaviour....

Edited by Round The Bend on 26/06/2008 at 14:17

Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Rats
">> Good. Should issue NIPs to all of the other idiots who joined in too.
Offences: Obstructing the public highway wasting police time wasting fuel boorish behaviour....


Shoud issue NIPs to the PM & Chancellor, Offences: ripping off the public through outrageous fuel taxation
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - billy25
I dont believe there is any minimum specified speed limit on the m62, is there?

>>Offences: Obstructing the public highway wasting police time wasting fuel boorish behaviour<<

if this type of boorish behavior should eventually bring down taxation on fuel, even if only for Hauliers, I dont think many people would complain if food prices were to drop as a result!. however, u-turns are not something governments do very well, as it makes them have to admit that they are wrong, and they will do everything in thier power to avoid it. Even to the extent of lying to us about the neccessity of the extortionate tax rate to fight Climate change.

Billy

Edited by billy25 on 26/06/2008 at 14:38

Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Lud
At least these truckers were holding up the traffic on purpose, for what they regarded as a good reason.

What about the thousands, nay, millions of NIPs that should be sent out to the incompetent car users, mimsers and twozzers who get in everyone's way all the time because they lack the mental and physical nous to conduct a small, user-friendly, rapid vehicle with minimal neatness and despatch?
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Dwight Van Driver
One or more of the offences of dangerous or careless driving of a motor vehicle or for driving a motor vehicle without reasonable consideration for other road users.

I fancy the later because by going painfully slow he impeded progress of the normal motoring public.

dvd
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - zookeeper
wouldnt they have needed to get permission from the authorities to conduct the protest? any problems that the authorities would forsee would have meant the protest being denied
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Whisky
any problems that the authorities would forsee would have meant the protest being denied


Surely this renders any protest pointless?
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Waino
What about the thousands nay millions of NIPs that should be sent out to the

incompetent car users mimsers and twozzers who get in everyone's way all the time because they lack the mental and physical nous to conduct a small user-friendly rapid vehicle with minimal neatness and despatch?>>

Lud must be a helluva good driver!
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Lud
must be a helluva good driver!


Not really. No one's perfect. The point surely is that perhaps a quarter of the others on the road are total carp. Or haven't you noticed Waino?
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - Waino
Not really. No one's perfect. The point surely is that perhaps a quarter of the others on the road are total carp. Or haven't you noticed Waino?>>


Yes, sadly - it's fits with Waino's general theory of population stupidity i.e. a quarter of the population (at least) think that there's an infinitous number of holes to bury our rubbish in; think that fuel's an infininite cheap resource that can be squandered; don't realise that simple measures such as cutting your speed can save significant amounts of fuel (for starters); think that it's all the fault of school-teachers; think that 'somebody else will sort it all out' etc etc etc.
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - daveyjp
This guy was on the local news. There was a brief shot of part of the NIP and it appeared to cover a number of offences under section 1 of Road Traffic Offences.....:

Driving dangerously
Without due care and attention without.... (I suspect care for other motorists)
Exceeding speed limit
In a dangerous position
Failed to conform to a traffic signal or sign

He is being reported for one or more of the above offences. It states the offences took place on the M62, so the speeding one is interesting.

Thanks to iplayer for allowing me to find the clip and pause it!
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - daveyjp
The local news also featured a piece about Asda and their wagon monitoring system. A black box monitors drivers behaviour and fuel consumption, since introduction fuel use has reduced by over 20%. They also live track all wagons.

When diesel increases by just 1p a litre their annual fuel bill goes up by £500,000!
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - a900ss
When diesel increases by just 1p a litre their annual fuel bill goes up by
£500 000!


Unless my arithmatic is incorrect, this means that they are using 11 million gallons of fuel a year. I find that very hard to believe.
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - daveyjp
The report also said Asda run a fleet of 1200 HGVs, does that change your thoughts? I've not checked your 11 million, but if that is correct it's 9166 gallons per truck per year.

At 5-10 mpg, that's 50-100,000 miles per truck per year.
Fuel protest organiser receives NIP - a900ss
Crikey, it does add up then based on that number of trucks!!!

That's a LOT of fuel.
Fuel prices around the world - Roger Jones
Scroll down a bit at:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_usage_and_pricing

and note that it's cheaper in China than in the USA.
Fuel prices around the world - Pugugly
Is it adjusted to different income levels ?
Fuel prices around the world - Pugugly
Just over 50p a litre in the US - Guess where I'll be Tuesday !!!!!! Whoopeee !
are we buying less fuel? - El Hacko
Car sales slump as motoring costs soar, says today's Daily Teleg, reporting the sadly familiar concerns about ever rising bills for everyday items for all of us. Yesterday at 10am I called in for diesel at a normally very busy Shell service station on the A217, a major Surrey dual carriageway. I was the 3rd vehicle at the pumps - usually you have to queue there for at least 5 mins or so. The number of drivers filling up had gone up to 7 when I drove out.
So, are people buying less fuel? Is the total sales figure for numbers of litres sold nationally publicly available?
Certainly, the amount of vehicles on the roads these days appears to be down ... which presumably will affect Govt's VAT receipts, or maybe not as prices continue rising?

{typo in header corrected}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/07/2008 at 13:00

are we buying less fuell? - Hamsafar
Yes, the Petrol Retailers Association (or whatever they're named) said as much a month or so ago. eg.
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/20...l

Edited by Hamsafar on 05/07/2008 at 13:22

are we buying less fuell? - doctorchris
I'm buying less. I've got out of the habit of driving to Sainsburys when I can walk there in 10 minutes, same when I visit my dad in Carlisle, it's actually quicker for me to walk to Tescos near his house because of the busy roads.
I try to change up a gear at 2000rpm and am keeping braking to a minimum, I see a genuine increase in fuel economy showing on the car's computer.
I go to a meeting quite a distance away on a Sunday and am sharing the journey with someone nearby, each of us drives on alternate weeks.
It makes me feel good that I'm doing this. I don't fully believe in CO2 causing global warming but I do believe that the oil will run out and we need to break our dependency on all imported energy sources in the UK.
are we buying less fuell? - gordonbennet
I wonder in the fullness of time if Maggie Thatcher will have done the right thing for the wrong reasons when she closed the pits.

When the oils gone in a few decades, we maybe can rework the pits for electricity production at least for some years until renewable resource technoligy is up to the task, or the much feared nuclear is up and running.
are we buying less fuell? - Lud
Yup. There's at least 400 years' worth still down there. But it'll cost a bit to make the pits safe again. Even then elf'n'safety as we know it will have to be kept at bay by the mine operators.

And where will the miners come from? Not everyone's cup of tea you know. The culture was already declining and has now been lost.

Community service perhaps, with paid slave-drivers.
are we buying less fuell? - Cymrogwyllt
I've invested in an electrically assisted bike. claimed range is 20 to 30 miles. 95% of my journeys are under 5 miles so the bike will be used whenever the weather is suitable. I reckon it should pay for itself in two years or so
are we buying less fuell? - Niallster
I live in a village with no shop (or pub) so non-work travel is necessary for most things but I find that I am now planning ahead and combining journeys, such as I shop on the way home from work where as previously I would have thought nothing of going home having a cup of tea and then nipping out to the shops.

I think my consumption is down around 20%.
are we buying less fuell? - Ian (Cape Town)
Yep - maybe Gordon B can ask his big mate Thabo if he might be able to borrow local oil-from-coal technology, which supplie a lot of local petrol needs.
Look up SASOL, and you'll get an idea.
However, despite all this, our local juice is still damn expensive!

are we buying less fuell? - rjr
Yes the Petrol Retailers Association (or whatever they're named) said as much a month or
so ago. eg.
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/20...l


According to that report the 20% drop in fuel purchases was estimated by the International Energy Agency (IEA) not the Petrol Retailers Association.

In fact in that article the Petrol Retailers Association cast doubt on the drop being as large as that.

If fuel purchases had really dropped by 20% the Government would have had to raise taxes to cover the shortfall in revenue.
are we buying less fuell? - roy59
I certainly am, i don`t fill up unless i`m going long distance, 20 quids worth gets me to work and back through the week and taking the missus shopping as well!!
Putting only enough fuel in for what you need keeps the gross weight down so you use less fuel.
I could use the bus to get to work as it`s only 3 miles away but there`s no bus at 4 am so it has to be the motor.
are we buying less fuell? - Tron
LPG = cheaper motoring.

Positively a case of 'I made the right choice to own an LPG vehicle' here.
are we buying less fuell? - roy59
LPG = cheaper motoring.


Yes it does , but have you noticed the price creeping upwards lately?
Was about 36p a litre when it first came on the market but now it`s around 55p
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - roy59
Why is it that the UK petrol/diesel price includes Fuel Duty + VAT?
Why are we taxed twice on one product?, Or is there something else i have missed?
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - John R @ home {P}
Cigarettes... Duty & VAT
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - mikeyb
Tobacco + Alcohol?
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - jc2
You've missed the fact that you're buying with money on which you've paid income tax-therefore TRIPLE taxation-also you pay VAT on top of tax when you buy a new car.
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - Robin Reliant
And your insurance premium is also taxed.
Is Road Fuel The Only Commodity Double taxed? - Stuartli
Every penny we earn eventually ends up in the Government's pockets - how else could Ministers, MPs and their hangers on raise their expenses claims funds?

...:-))

Edited by Stuartli on 06/07/2008 at 12:46

Tories fuel suggestion - Ben 10
On the news today the Conservatives have unveiled their suggestion to take the sting out of fuel price rises. They suggest a sliding scale of tax that can be adjusted up or down depending on a rise or decrease in fuel prices.
A few weeks ago I suggested this very idea on this site. It is good to know that the powers that be are in touch with what we write about sometimes. I also had the suggestion printed on the letters page of the "Daily Express" in April.
Tories fuel suggestion - oilrag
"take the sting out of fuel price"

Well, the sting is a very small percentage of the weight of a wasp, so they say.

( 1p or 2P ?)

;)



Edited by oilrag on 06/07/2008 at 21:16

Tories fuel suggestion - Blue {P}
They say tha if iwas in place now then fuel would be 5p per litre cheaper according to the article that I read. Not a huge amount, but every little helps.

Tories fuel suggestion - Cymrogwyllt
but just wait 'till they get in power. God forbid. It's easy to say things in opposition but a very different thing when in power.

Politicians make their living by lying
Tories fuel suggestion - gordonbennet
say things
in opposition but a very different thing when in power.


Seconded.

If a politician told me it was daylight outside, i'd have to pop out to check.
High fuel price is a good thing - GB - movilogo
Why Brown thinks we should all be happy that fuel costs are sky-high

tinyurl.com/6y6wh4

"Gordon Brown wants to see petrol-driven cars off the roads within 12 years as evidence that Britain can break its addiction to oil."


I want to see him lose in next election!!

High fuel price is a good thing - GB - Tron
This present government and more so it's leader (best joke I have told all day that one!)is like something from Medieval England....

...he was not voted in by us the public.

He came in through the back door of number 10 and the sooner someone shows him the way back out the better.
High fuel price is a good thing - GB - Saltrampen
I guess he will remove all taxation (incl VAT) on sales of new non mineral oil based fuelled cars and pay the power companies more money to fund the extra demand for electric cars.

At the moment the choice appears to be biofuels (which is only going to work for c.10% of vehicles due to lack of land area) or electric cars (Don't plan on any long trips) with rumours of Hydrogen powered cars (where is the hydrogen coming from? And is it created with green energy?)..not much choice of models around, strangely this was probably the choice 12 years ago as well...

IF there was a Family sized electric car that was under £20K could do 70mph for 300+ miles
and would charge overnight, then yes I would trade in my petrol model.



Falling oil price - premature partying? - moonshine {P}

Lots in the news lately about the falling price of oil. General reaction from the public seems to be one of celebration - lower oil prices, supermarkets knocking 5p off a litre - fantastic! - lets go out and buy a V8!

While I welcome cheaper petrol I do wonder if joe public is being a bit premature and niave.

Oil prices are still way above prices from year ago

Where will oil prices be in a weeks time? what one month or year?

Oil still has a finite supply

A slowing ecomony in the west is helping dampen prices, surely only a short term respite?

What do you think?
Falling oil price - premature partying? - graham sherlock
I think you'll find that the oil price fall back is more due to an improving dollar. The lack of refining capacity is still there. Mustn't forget that the supermarkets are in a fight for your money as well.

I'm treating is as a bit of a financial breather, just in time for my driving to S/Wales for a holiday. Nice, but a cow of a long drive from the East coast. I'm still planning for higher petrol/oil prices..

Edited by graham sherlock on 23/07/2008 at 17:46

Falling oil price - premature partying? - Optimist
Don't think it's just the dollar.

Demand is falling back in the US so stocks are increasing. Some of the hedgies are closing off their positions for fear they might be exposed to too much risk. Bless! And if we have trouble in our economies in the West we'll probably buy less from the East and so........

Lack of refining capacity is a new one on me.

Falling oil price - premature partying? - Pugugly
It is a problem in the States - GBW was mouthing on the telly about the importation of petrol/diesel and lack of refining and the madness of importing it to the US when I was there last week. He;s signed an Executive Order to overturn a decision made in the 90s to ban drilling on the US continental shelf unleashing between 100 and 200 years of capacity (depending on whose agenda you listen to), the mood is very bullish there, much talk about drilling their way out of th situation.

BTW this Executive Order is a mere gesture but enough to kick start optimism.

Iran is the other factor to consider, they control the Straits of Hormuz, if that racks up we're in the pooh.

$127.00 a barrel for Brent today.

Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2008 at 18:16