A friend brought a second hand Vectra from an independent dealer a few weeks ago. The car came with a full MOT. Yesterday for some reason he decided to check out the MOT history on the VOSA website. This proved interesting in that a few days before the current MOT was issued it had failed at another garage. He then crawled under the car and found the failure items had not been attended to. Has he any comeback as the failure occurred after he agreed to buy the car or is it just down to individual tester?s interpretation?
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I'd be slightly more concerned that the MOT pass certificate was bent.
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There's a grey area where testers can be sloppy and kind to the owner or conscientious and a PITA. Obviously the latter is theoretically preferable in the long run, but it might not often seem so at the time.
You would have to know if (e.g.) the handbrake mechanism was rusted solid and about to fall out, or whether there was just a spot of corrosion on a brake pipe. Has anyone here ever had, before the days of the MoT of course, a burst steel brake pipe? I've never even heard of one. Similarly, a lot of fuss is made about rust spots on sills, and testers make holes with their little hammers if they can. Personally I think a thin, rusty sill keeps water out of the structure just as well as one that has been holed and patched. Looks better too.
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" Has anyone here ever had, before the days of the MoT of course, a burst steel brake pipe?"
Yep, got an advisory on MOT on crusty rear brake pipes, then a few months later colleague phones up and says "Your car's left an oil stain on my drive". Looked under and one of the rear pipes had rotted through. Strangely, since this was a Xantia, I had not noticed any adverse effects on the brakes! First I would have known about it was when the low LHM light had come on (had it not stained my colleague's drive....!!).
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" Has anyone here ever had, before the days of the MoT of course, a burst steel brake pipe?"
Yes, recently, but not due to rust. The car was having the mot brake test and a copper pipe failed dramatically, fluid everywhere. It was on top of the back axle and had been rubbed thin where a retaining clip had been fitted. My blood ran cold as I had been giving it some welly on the way to the test to warm things up. If I had needed to perform an emergency stop my number would have been up. An old car too, so no dual circuit.
A bit off topic I suppose, as this probably wouldn't have otherwise been spotted during the test. I'm just glad the MOT is every year and includes stressing the braking system.
Edited by nick on 12/06/2008 at 09:55
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A bit off topic I suppose as this probably wouldn't have otherwise been spotted during the test. I'm just glad the MOT is every year and includes stressing the braking system.
I also apreciate the brake test on the MOT - pushes the brakes to the limit under safe conditions. If they are going to fail I would rather they did it on the MOT test. A good reminder that the MOT is is there to help protect our safety.
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There should be a number on the back of the MOT certificate that you can call if you think its been wrongly issued. Give them a call.
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I also apreciate the brake test on the MOT - pushes the brakes to the limit under safe conditions. If they are going to fail I would rather they did it on the MOT test. A good reminder that the MOT is is there to help protect our safety.
Precisely why I think going to a bi-annual test is not a good idea.
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Wow, RW and nick. I will stop grumbling about chalk marks on slightly rusty brake pipes then. Never happened to me or anyone I know, although lots of other bad brake faults have. But two examples just like that certainly show it can happen. Thanks.
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Interesting comment on stressing the brake system. My local MoT centre does the brake test at the very end of the test, so it would not be possible to spot any newly developed leakage or ballooning of flexibles as the vehicle is off the ramp by then.
However early on in the test brake feel (servo and sink) is tested so I guess that this will give any early indication of possible problems.
I am not sure that the concept of the MoT test stressing the braking system is correct. I would have thought that a hardbrake test stops (without locking the wheels from high speed) would do just the same thing. After all we are talkng about is the pressure developed in the system.
As an aside I have only just recently witnessed a new state of the art MoT testing rig set up with hydraulic rams stressing the suspension and steering. I dont know how many stations use this setup yet. The fitters view is that whilst it will find some faults more readily, the less experienced tester will probably rely too heavily on it and miss other faults.
pmh
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While the car is on the ramp, an assistant should press the brake to allow the tester to assess the condition of the flexi pipes.
The roller brake test isn't to stress the system, merely to check the efficiency of its operation - you don't need to jump on the brake pedal to get sufficient readings for a pass in most cars.
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NC
....While the car is on the ramp, an assistant should press the brake to allow the tester to assess the condition of the flexi pipes.........
That is what actually used to happen. The new setup seems to be set up for one man operation, are they supposed to have an assistant on hand?
eg
All rear/brake/ indicator lights etc are checked from the driving seat using large convex mirrors strategically sited.
Need for Steering wheel 'wobbler' is relaced by hydraulic rams etc on front wheel pads.
pmh
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pmh,
I've never seen one of these automated MOT rigs, but, I'm not sure how you can check the condition of the flexis without checking them under pressure.
Perhaps there's a ram between the steering wheel and the brake pedal - a bit like those old fashioned crook-locks?
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NC
I stopped on the way home to talk to my pet MoT tester. You are nearly right in your description - but more like a pogo stick (with spring) that wedges between the seat and brake pedal.
His personal view was that the ram driven suspension tester actually finds more faults.
pmh
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>>The roller brake test isn't to stress the system, merely to check the efficiency of its operation - you don't need to jump on the brake pedal to get sufficient readings for a pass in most cars.
But the braking system is fully pressurised during the test to check the hoses etc. and on the rollers at the place I go to they brake as hard as possible until the wheel locks (non-ABS obviously). Whatever the test's shortcomings, it's better than finding out on the road!
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>>But the braking system is fully pressurised during the test to check the hoses etc.
a) the system is nowhere near its maximum pressure at wheel lockup - the system can (and must) stand much more than that.
b) the roller test is not where the integrity of the hydraulic system is checked - that's checked by checking the flexis and checking that there aren't any leaks. There isn't a proof test in the MOT, although a catastrophic hydraulic failure on the rollers would result in a test fail. I've never seen such a failure.
Whatever the test's shortcomings, it's better than finding out on the road!
Fully agree.
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>>the system is nowhere near its maximum pressure at wheel lockup - the system can (and must) stand much more than that
Agreed, but I didn't suggest that. But it will be at maximum pressure when the 16 stone tester makes the pedal bracket creak when the flexis are looked at, as my quote above says.
And I did have a failure on the rollers, yet it had passed the flexi test. Just one of those things I suppose, I'm just glad it happened there and not on the road. I still get goose bumps thinking about it.
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It would be interesting to know the exact faults in this case. There are some faults that no MOT tester should pass and others that are open to interpretation.
This MOT does however sound fishy to me (or should that be, smells fishy)?
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>>This MOT does however sound fishy to me (or should that be smells fishy)?
He's obviously a carp tester.
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my MOT station had an assistant at my last MOT.....ME!
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" my MOT station had an assistant at my last MOT.....ME!"
All commercial vehicles are tested using the presenting driver as the assistant. You can not leave it at the test centre and pick it up later!
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