I think you've made the right choice too.
Why not get it pressure/steam cleaned and fully waxoyled this year too, even professionally wouldn't cost more than 2 or 3 hundred, including all box sections etc, unless you fancy the horrible job it is, and yes i've done a few.
Have you had the gearbox oil changed by the way, those mercs as you probably know need it.
I hope it makes the 200k for you, no reason why not.
I'm in similar position to you, my 124 coupe's a 96, and i've got a feeling in my water that our older motors won't be left out of the tax grab for long.
AB, i've been keeping my eyes open for a bargain Legacy 3.0 or volvo S60R of about 04 to 06 reg, maybe the penny hasn't dropped yet, or many sellers are hoping to catch anybody unwary, but the price drops don't seem to be happening yet.....mind you its not to say they're selling them either.
GB
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>>and i've got a feeling in my water that our older motors won't be left out of the tax grab for long.
Save for the fact that CO2 emissions are recorded on the V5 for post-2001 cars, but not pre. It could of course just be based on engine size as it used to be.
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Yes, good decision, but as the owner of more than one old MB I am not impartial. I would err on the side of mollycoddling it, and would certainly heed HJ's advice about oil-change intervals. Fresh fluids are a key to longevity. If you are not already using an independent for servicing, that's another sensible option.
"Old girl"? You have a youngster in no more than early middle age.
Edited by Roger Jones on 03/06/2008 at 12:51
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RJ, i'm on your side , but along in a few minutes will be various people to tell you that you're are wasting your money/destroying the environment/doing no good at all by changing oils (mainly) possibly more often than the handbook says.
Tin hat on.
Mind you i still baby my cars and overservice them meself.
MM, i've got a horrible feeling that they'll put more engine size bands for the pre 01 cars, all in the interests of the environment.
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As long as you meet, or exceed, the MB service interval and oil quality requirements, I'm sure the engine will have a long enough life. In fact, owing to their generally robust construction, it's difficult to imagine engines that need babying less!
MB were a little silly with their filled for life recommendation for 77.6xx gearboxes, but changes at 60K are now considered the correct interval.
I would say that if you want to run an MB into old age, it's more important to start dealing with those items that tend to be missed during routine servicing, but, which enthusiatic owners can fid out about and deal with, and save themselves significant costs. For one example on certain models, checking to see if the automatic gearbox oil is leaking and wicking up the wiring harness before it swamps and ruins the ECU at the other end, and for models like GB's W124, checking the engine wiring hasn't degraded around the coils before it spikes the engine ECU.
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for models like GB's W124 checking the engine wiringhasn't degraded around the coils before it spikes the engine ECU.
NC, i've got the T shirt, and i can truly say i can get my ecu out in less than 5 minutes.
Wiring loom disintegrated without warning or disturbance, £550 ish plus fitting, did indeed take the ecu with it, (would have been £1200 ish) luckily i've found a superb chap on the Isle of Wight who's the master at fixing these (don't need to tell you there's some dodgy 'fixers' about too).
And recently a coil stared to misfire, so its got all new coils and suppressors as well now.
The coil misfire was a panic in case it had blown the ecu again.
And enthusaists say the 124 is the best...well your diesel ceratinly is one of the best, pity the petrol straight 6 had so many glitches
What on earth came over merc engineers to approve the fitting of a biodegradable engine wiring loom to a vehicle with an expected lifespan of 20 or 30 years?
And why wasn't there a fail safe system to prevent the coil spark tracking back to blow the ecu?
At least Barney, you haven't got this sort of worry anyway, not aware of any such probs on your model.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/06/2008 at 13:33
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>>What on earth came over merc engineers to approve the fitting of a biodegradable engine wiring loom to a vehicle with an expected lifespan of 20 or 30 years?
Perhaps it's just hearsay, but I understood that the Green movement exerted too much influence at the time, and they just went a bit too far.
I've changed the engine wiring harness on my diesel, because I was worried for the control unit that regulates idle speed, controls the intake manifold resonance valves, and the EGR. None of it's outputs are fused or protected, and while I had the manifold off, I saw the insulation crumbling away near the temp sensor at the back of the cylinder head. The harness was £300, and it took me a leisurely couple of hours to fit it. So although most of the problems were with the wiring harnesses fitted to petrol models, the diesel is by no means immune.
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"MM, i've got a horrible feeling that they'll put more engine size bands for the pre 01 cars, all in the interests of the environment."
Given the average life of a car is 12-13 years, it seems hardly worth the effort. The average car life pre 01 will be 6 years, allow 2 years to program and make the changes and the law of diminishing returns...
After all, who wants to buy and run a 10 year old Mondeo or XJ6 given current fuel costs?
From looking at secondhand car prices , demand for bigger petrol cars has collapsed.. and even 3 litre diesel Mercedes E class prices are collapsing (yes I know there are other reasons..)
Edited by madf on 03/06/2008 at 13:43
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Madf
I hope you're right, would be good to keep some of our lovely old motors going for many years hence.
NC
You really have surprised me, i've never heard of the 124 diesel wiring loom problem before, good job you spotted it. The only real problem i knew of with your model was the possibility of glow plugs breaking on removal.
Just out of curiosity if you had a ecu problem would you you be able to test and repair it, or would that require specialist diagnostic equipment, if not bear in mind this chap i mentioned puts right work that others deem unrepairable.
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>>i've never heard of the 124 diesel wiring loom problem before
Yes, I found the problem with mine, and repaired it in good time. On another forum, shortly afterwards, I posted some info to help a chap whose wiring had failed, and it had taken the control unit with it.
At the time, I was sufficiently worried to rig up a system of wires and LEDs to act as a telltale to see if the intake resonance flaps on my car were actually being commanded properly by the ECU - thankfully, in my case, they were!
I managed to swap all of the glow plugs out while I had the cylinder head off for some valve work. The nice thing was that at 125,000 miles, the cylinders looked to be in really good condition. In my opinion, the big problem with glow plugs is people not installing the *tight* enough. There's a taper seal part way down the plug, and, if carbon gets past this seal, the plug siezes solid in the head. I had 2 plugs which were gummed up like this, and it took me the best part of 2 days of soaking with plus gas, and working back and forth before they came out. All of the others came out by hand after I loosened them off.
The Beru site lists a breakage torque of 45Nm for these glow plugs, but, I went up to 60Nm (with beads of sweat forming on my brow!) before mine moved, and they didn't break.
As for ECUs, I can do the basic things, like re-flow dry joints, and replace drive transistors, but, unless there's obvious burning, my diagnosis skills and equipment are sadly lacking! Some of my colleagues can replace SMT components, I'm far too clumsy. However, even my basic capabilities have got me out of bother a time or two!
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The wiring harness problem was more extensive than many think:
tinyurl.com/8nx7v
Here's an illustrated guide to replacement:
tinyurl.com/44y78c
The MB E-class owner's bible suggests that minor insulation breaks can be cured by fitting some good flexible plastic around them.
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Just lost this because the flipping editing time-limit cut me off. Easily done when you are looking for reference sources at the same time.
Anyway, "wasting your money/destroying the environment/doing no good at all by changing oils": the aforementioned bible puts it rather succinctly: "Oil change intervals are inversely correlated to engine life." And I side with those who reckon that running a well maintained old car is more environmentally beneficial than scrapping it prematurely.
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RJ
Thanks for those links, good quality photographs there for all to see just what happens, how many similar problems have gone on over the years that the manufacturers kept quiet about, more power to the internet.
I really like my car, but some of these problems can try the patience, so unnecessary too. You don't find 10 year old lexus's, lexii..?, having such problems, nor probably 20 year olds.
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Barney100, would it not make sense to have the car converted to LPG if you plan another 65K miles, the installation would be a good selling point and some of the costs would be recouped
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Nah. Swap it for a similar-aged diesel and run on WVO and save more money and save the planet too. Engine designed for it.
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>>And I side with those who reckon that running a well maintained old car is more environmentally beneficial than scrapping it prematurely.
I agree - fully. It's what I'm doing with our E300D, I intend to be running about in it many years hence.
The part I don't get is why people concentrate so much on over servicing the engine - especially on a car like a MB. For most normal people**, their older MB will pass from their possesion for a reason other than lubrication based engine failure. Yes, if you look on the web fora for older MBs, you'll find people talking about engine overhauls of their W123s and W126s, but these are all at least 20 years old.
** excluding taxi drivers and million mile deviants
My main point is that there are other problems to put much higher on the list of things to do than over servicing the engine. Lubrication based engine failure is rare.
My pet theory is that engine oil changing is one of the jobs that most DIYers and forum contributors feel confident enough to approach, and then in doing so make an inordinate fuss about exactly what oil type they use and how frequently to repeat the performance. The jobs that can really prevent seriously wallet endangering failures are, relatively, brushed over.
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>>The part I don't get is why people concentrate so much on over servicing the engine -
>>especially on a car like a MB. For most normal people**, their older MB will pass from
>>their possesion for a reason other than lubrication based engine failure
Lubrication-based autobox failure, usually.
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>>Lubrication-based autobox failure, usually.
The odd thing is, it's such an easy and cheap job to do on these cars.
There's even a sump plug, and another on the torque convertor.
Six bolts, and the sump's off - three screws and the filter's off. Put it all back, fill up, and off you go. It couldn't be much simpler.
But, of course, it's still much easier to be obsessive over irrelevant matters like should 5w40 or 10w40 oil be used in the engine!
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>>Put it all back...
No. Put old filter in bin, put new one in... and put it all back. Complete with one or two bits of rust and it will disintegrate the following day!
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>>Put old filter in bin, put new one in...
Well, if you're going to be fussy, put a new washer on the sump plug, and the one on the torque convertor, and torque them up. Fit a new rubber gasket to the sump. Fit the new oil filter, and torque the screws up. Fit the sump, and torque up the bolts, etc, etc,...
....but, I'm sure you knew what I meant!
>>Complete with one or two bits of rust and it will disintegrate the following day!
You would have to be very unlucky. The only time you're really at risk is while the oil filter is off; the exposed ports are very small, and even the numbest can have the new filter in place in a few tens of seconds.
There are tales of gearboxes failing shortly after long overdue oil changes, and a certain folklore has built up suggesting that the oil change caused the gearboxes demise, and that the right thing to do is not to change the oil! Of course, in these cases, the gearbox was really knackered anyway, long before anyone touched the sump!
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NC
Why do you assume that those of us that look after our engines are neglecting the rest of the car?
My own car has had every oil changed in it, also the brake fluid. Including the gearbox filter.
Also the coolant. Also the bearings have been repacked.
I'm sure a few more jobs will come to my dreadful memory soon.
The whole vehicle has been waxoyled, and is cleaned of all salts etc during the winter.
The replacements of fluids and constant attention will contine, also the pick up gets the same obsessive attention.
Bonkers....probably, but who cares.
Edit, oh yes and any wear detected at all in any bushes or the like is repaired or replaced immediately.
Edited by gordonbennet on 04/06/2008 at 19:49
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>>Why do you assume that those of us that look after our engines are neglecting the rest of the car?
Oh no!, perish the thought GB. I'm sure there are many exceptions, and I'm sure your own vehicle maintenance standards are exemplary.
But, the subject of oil changing creates more heat, more threads, and way more discussion than it's worth.
If you add up all of the dull threads about irrelevance like "is Mobil 1 is better for the hinges on my squeaking garden gate than is Castrol Edge", and compare them with the total number of threads asking sensible, interesting, worthwhile questions like "how should I assess the level of wear in my suspension bushes?", or "what's the best way to set the wheel bearing clearance on my sleek, shining, sparkling, stylish W124?", you'll begin to see what I'm on about.
As an example, although the engine had been well looked after on mine, the power steering filter was on the verge of collapse, and looked like it had been in place since 1995!
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As an example although the engine had been well looked after on mine the power steering filter was on the verge of collapse and looked like it had been in place since 1995!
Well you've got me now, i didn't know the power steering had a filter, and i don't believe i've changed the oil in it either.
Its a fair cop guv, you've got me bang to rights, i'll come along quietly and sign a full confession, in mitigation i'll declare premature senility.
But. it'll get done tomorrow be assured, hope i can find the offending filter in the haynes.
Actually i might wait until the merc E class bible turns up, which thanks to the reminder of Roger Jones, i'd promised myself one of those years ago, and i've now ordered it.
Thanks Roger, i suppose you knew all about this blessed power steering filter, why didn't you let me know somehow before admitting to NC that i'd really neglected my lovely old motor.
As punishment i shall give the fair lady another coat of the finest wax to make up for my terrible neglect. I may wear my hair shirt whilst doing so..;)
By the way (wooden spoon out), i don't use the very expensive top spec designer oils, mainly as its not in there long enough to warrant the expense (wooden spoon back in the drawer).
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As with many things MB, it's really easy to do.
The filter is in the bottom of the power steering oil reservoir, and can be removed once you've taken the M6 nut off, and removed the sprung! plastic piece with the oil level marks on it.
It's possible to flush/change the oil by removing the return pipe - on mine, it's above the oil level in the reservoir, so you don't lose any oil, and directing the pipe into a waste container, and asking an assistant to start the car, and work the steering while the new oil is poured in. You need to be quick at pouring the oil in!, and the whole flush / change is over in 30 seconds!
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Thanks NC, i shall purchase some of the correct oil tomorrow, enlist the help of the able and charming SWMBO, and do the deed. I hope the dealer has the filter in stock.
Sounds like a 5 minute job, so should assuming the usual laws of chance apply, take me most of the weekend fixing all the bits that don't go right.
If you hear a faint roaring sound from due South it will be me enlightening my long suffering and delightfull neighbour to the few really bad words she claims never to have heard.
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Job done NC, thanks for the info, hadn't realised quite how mucky the steering fluid was.
Amazing how quickly the pump can empty the reservoir on tickover though.
Another 10K and it will be gearbox and diff oil changes again.
I am ashamed of this neglect, and yes i did give it another coat of wax as my punishment, and the pick up as well. I do have a bit of a smug feeling watching the rain run off both vehicles though.
If you pick this post up NC, could i have your considered opinion.
If you owned my car '96 124 coupe, 72K and in appropriate condition, would you get it LPG converted?
My reasons are , even if i only break even on the conversion cost in my time, i would rather give the 2K to a decent converter than to the gov of the day to waste.
Any other sensible views welcome too. Thats not saying any of my own views are in the least sensible.
Edited by gordonbennet on 07/06/2008 at 15:47
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>>Amazing how quickly the pump can empty the reservoir on tickover though.
Yes, it surprised me too!
>>would you get it LPG converted?
It's an interesting question, I've been idly thinking about a similar course of action for mine - the difference being that on a petrol you would switch over completely, while on a diesel, you would simply add the gas into the manifold, and reduce the amount of diesel injected by lifting off a bit.
However, it's a subject about which I'm almost completely blind - I've no idea what the important issues are, and I'm certainly concerned about the quality of the kits, and even more so on the quality of their installation.
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I've done quite a lot of research on this NC, and i have 2 fitting centres pencilled in.
One who gets very good reviews and who i have spoken to and feel confident, one other who i have delivered vans to for fleet conversions and he to is well thought of.
Both are 80 to 100 miles way, so a fair journey for any remedial or servicing work too.
My big quandry is whether to convert my 124 bearing in mind the well known fragility of the ignition side (it surely doesn't need any more electrical complications) as against the fact i really like the car for its comfort and pace and individuality, and till the gov of the day shift the goal posts, it has advantageous VED.
Difficult one as i do like the legacy 3.0R, they seemingly take very well to LPG, but of course i have to pay £455 VED to the the highwayman every year.
You can see my quandry.
LPGing a diesel is a whole new box of snakes and not something i've investigated., but it is very rare.
Thanks anyway. GB.
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