RoSPA recommend that motor cycles use daytime running lights. Even the 1999 version of the Highway Code recommends it.
So why oh why do the motor cyclists in Lothian & Borders Police not even use their lights when it's foggy, teeming with rain, a bad light? Should they not set an example to other motorists? Or do they just think that, with their high-vis jackets, everyone will see them? Or, because they're plods, no one would dare crash into them if they couldn't be seen the through the spray thrown up by a 38 tonner?
Edited by grumpyscot on 19/05/2008 at 07:33
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is it all of them?....or just a couple who for whatever reason don't like using headlamps
personally i wouldn't ride anywhere without lights on the bike
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So why oh why do the motor cyclists in Lothian & Borders Police not even use their lights when it's foggy .........
That's unusual. In our neck of the woods they mainly use full beam regardless of the time of day or weather conditions.
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Being originally from Edinburgh myself, I think I know the reason.
"Hiv ye seen the price 'o thae bulbs? It's a sair fecht! " ;-)
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Perhaps they don't use their lights because they (very sensibly) ride assuming nobody has seen them? I'm sure we've all had someone pull out of a junction on us, I have when I was in a 6ft wide limo with headlights on and I'm sure police drivers have had it to even with the dayglow stripes and whatever.
If the other guy isn't looking it doesn't matter how many lights or fluorescent jackets you've got on. Moderate your driving / riding to take account of that.
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I have taken to wearing a fluorescent waistcoat when riding my pushbike and have the rear red light flashing all the time, and still people don't see me. I was waiting to turn left at a junction yesterday morning and a guy started to turn left from behind me. I just stopped and gave him a glare and he replied that he had not seen me! I mean I was about six feet from his eyes let alone his bonnet..
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Some years ago, a motorcycle journalist carried out an experiment. On three different days, he did the same journey at the same time through a city (London I think) on a BMW R80, which was the stock police mount of the day.
First day, on a "civilian" bike, with ordinary motorcycle clothing on. He was "cut up" by other drivers on several occasions.
Second day, on a plain white bike, he was wearing black leathers and a white helmet; he was cut up once.
Third day, with both the bike and the rider done up to resemble a police bike as closely as possible without actually risking being done for impersonating a copper; he was not cut up at all, and he also noted that other drivers were noticeably more courteous and better behaved.
QED
just read the OP again and noted that it was in fact police bikes which were at fault. Grumpyscot, I totally agree that they should set a better example. My Harley has headlights wired to be on all the time and I'm happy with that, as are most other bikers of my acquaintance.
Edited by Harleyman on 19/05/2008 at 11:38
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My Harley has headlights wired to be on all the time and I'm happy with that as are most other bikers of my acquaintance.
My motorcycle has lights wired permanently on but I deplore the current practice of some riders going everywhere on full beam; it makes distance and perception difficult for me.
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some years ago i think the south yorks motorcycle cops used to ride around at night without lights to sneak up on unsuspecting lorry drivers until one had an argument with the back of a lorry ( as far as i know the lorry driver was aware of the cop behind him and he did an emergency stop)
Edited by zookeeper on 19/05/2008 at 13:17
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sq
Also sounds very similar to the death plot against the police traffic officer in Bill Naughton's short story 'Late night on Watling Street'.
Edited by Pugugly on 20/05/2008 at 15:26
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i heard it from a trucker from doncaster so it could be an urban myth , or the writer took a true story for his idea for his short story?
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I heard a version of it, including a sack for the mate to throw in front of the truck after the "emergency" stop, at RAF Yatesbury in 1947 - we took it to be true and (some will be upset to hear) enjoyed it!
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My motorcycle has lights wired permanently on but I deplore the current practice of some riders going everywhere on full beam; it makes distance and perception difficult for me.
I brought this up a year or two ago and got lambasted for it. The bikers on here thought that it was justifiable in view off their increased visibility. me as a car driver disagreed saying that it meant that I had to avert my gaze from that part of the road and I suppose that I agree that it makes distance/perception more difficult.
as for the OP, I agree that they should have lights on. the post saying that they ride assuming no one has seen them so therefore they ride more defensively is totally flawed.
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Rogue-trooper, this link may well give you some clues as to why bikers use headlights.....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMIDSY
The second paragraph makes interesting reading, and I agree with the conclusion; however I shall now don my tin hat and await incoming..... ;-)
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no probs at all with dipped headlights, and thinking about it prefer it so as not to get caught out. Just find the full beams distracting and blinding
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>> So why oh why do the motor cyclists in Lothian & Borders Police not even >> use their lights when it's foggy ......... That's unusual. In our neck of the woods they mainly use full beam regardless of the time of day or weather conditions.
Quite. This morning (clear conditions) I was blinded by an oncoming bike with lights on full beam, and then taken by surprise (because I could not look ahead) when he zoomed past in the middle of the road. Quite why they wish to destroy the forward vision of drivers is beyond me.
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why oh why do the motor cyclists in Lothian & Borders Police not even use their lights when it's foggy teeming with rain a bad light?
They should, in those circumstances, but not necessarily all the time. You could try telling them about it.
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Hard-wired into the BMW's ignition switch (although there is a software fix than can stop this happening.) I have black leathers and I wear a 1980s Sam Browne reflective belt, which I feel assists visibility. Anyone that fails to spot a fully lit up R1200GS shouldn;t be on the road.
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They don't "fail to spot" your bike Pug; some little thing in the depths of their tiny brains tells them that you might be a copper, hence they wake up!
No offence to the vast majority of good drivers BTW; I'm fully aware that it happens to you too!
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The bad drivers usually see smaller vehicles, but calculate they will win the argument. As a backstop, they wheel out SMIDSY if challenged. I prefer the line taken by Ogri:)
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. I prefer the line taken by Ogri:)
I wanted to be him. :-( I have a friend we call Dayglo Derek !)
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Ah! Ogri. I always looked forward to his cartoon when I bought an issue of BiKE in the 80's. I seem to remember his way of dealing with SMIDSY's involved extreme violence (deserved)... Sadly, my bikes back then were more Malcolm than Ogri...
Always had a soft spot for Mitzi, mind:-)
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I don't ever recall turning the light switch to off on any bike I've ever owned, apart from when starting on an iffy battery.
Most bikes now don't give you the option anyway
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I stopped using daytime lights on a bike about ten years ago and never had a problem with people unable to see me. It is one of those things that seem at face value to make sense and has become accepted as the safe way to ride, but I heard some powerful arguments against from people whose opinion I respected and changed my habits.
Daytime lights on any vehicle make it harder to judge approach speed and distance in my opinion, and are a blasted nusience. Another point is that lights are obviously more visible at night so you would think that because vehicles are easier to see the accident rate would drop, but the reverse is the case. When people say, "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" they are lying. What they actually mean is that I did see you, but I made a complete cock-up of judging how much time and room I had to pull out because I wasn't really paying attention to something smaller than my car.
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I stopped using daytime lights on a bike about ten years ago and never had a problem with people unable to see me. It is one of those things that seem at face value to make sense and has become accepted as the safe way to ride but I heard some powerful arguments against from people whose opinion I respected and changed my habits.
A few pointers here: survivalskills.wordpress.com/category/daytime-ligh.../
and here: www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/news/download/safety...f
Assuming daytime lights are good, and assuming it'll make you be seen are shortsighted (hopeless pun) IMHO
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A few pointers here: survivalskills.wordpress.com/category/daytime-ligh.../ and here: www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/news/download/safety...f Assuming daytime lights are good and assuming it'll make you be seen are shortsighted (hopeless pun) IMHO
Thanks Gareth, the articles in those links, particularly the first one sum up my feelings on daytime lights exactly.
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Hear Hear. In 40years I have never ridden with daytime lights(if given the choice) - some of my old bikes have no lights ! Even on quick modern Japanese bikes I have never hit anyone who "hasn't seen me" and I've fallen off a few times(often my fault). I've had people and cars "not see me" but I was taught to assume the worst and act accordingly. I raced bikes for many years and maybe that got rid of the madness that afflicts some.
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Remembering Ogri has incited me to buy a couple of the artists (Paul Sample) collected volumes of mayhem:)
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