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Every new tyre fitting invoice I've ever had has had a weasel clause saying check the tightness of the wheel nuts after so many miles. IMHO - no hope of a succesful claim.
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Always, without fail, been asked by National Tyres both verbally and in writing to tighten up after 100KM. Would say its standard operating procedure to have it on the small print.
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no mention of checking them, no one has ever suggested that to me
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New tyres fitted - shortly after noise from front wheel area - my next step would be stop and check, don't like any unidentified noises from my car....
Nuts can loosen, especially if they hadn't been changed for years before, I tend to feel that the loss will be down to the OP, not the tyre fitting company....
Edited by b308 on 21/04/2008 at 18:15
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>no mention of checking them, no one has ever suggested that to me
Even without knowing where you had them done, I'm pretty sure there will have either have been a note in small print on your invoice/receipt, or a whacking great big sign on the wall. In all the places (big, small and backstreet) I've ever had tyre changed, there has been.
Scary thing to have happened though, glad you're ok.
Edit: If it does go for scrap, can't you take the new tyres off and sell them, e.g. on Ebay?
Edited by PoloGirl on 21/04/2008 at 18:21
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I would be straight round the they tyre place and tell them what has happened. They may be able to help with the cost of repair to keep you quiet.
I have also never checked the tightness of wheel bolts after a tyre change, and i dont know a single person who has.
Also , would some small print asking you to check the bolts after x miles really absolve the tyre fitter of any responsibility for a badly fitted wheel?
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Don't want you to name the company involved, but the small print on the back of the invoice is pretty critical.
Report it in person and in writing to the outlet involved. Get the name of the person in charge.
Whilst there check out any signage regarding the points raised above.
Is there scope for an independent examination of the car ??
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I've never checked the bolts either. Usually a proper tyre fitter will torque them on in front of you.
On the other hand I've never driven far enough on a loose wheel to do any real damage either. It's only happened once, and I was myself the culprit.
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I wasn't saying I do check, just that that's what the small print and the big sign are for...
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I've never checked mine either but I should. I'd then look at it being my fault if it all goes horribly wrong.
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My local tyre place has a sign up behind the counter telling you to check your wheel nuts the day after you've had your tyres changed. I've always thought this was a cop out , as how are some people to know how tight they are meant to be.
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how are some people to know how tight they are meant to be.
It should be in the car's handbook, but few people read that either.
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Just had some tyres fitted by our local independent - watched him use torque wrench to put wheels back on and asked him why he didn't use the "air hammer thing"and he said you couldn't rely on their settings for torque and also said "bring it back in a couple of days and I'll recheck them".
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I have just had 4 tyres replaced by costco - I could not believe how cheap they were.
Michelin Energy 195/60 15" - £59 each with fitting, balancing, valve and vat - and then with a further 20% reduction on top for buying 4.
Anyway - they made me sign to say that I was responsible for checking the torque (they supplied the value) after 25 miles of driving - or they did offer to do it if I popped back in.
Did you do anything similar or were you informed in writing on any of the invoices ? (might be in the small print somewhere)
Edited by Pendlebury on 21/04/2008 at 21:11
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>>I've always thought this was a cop out
Sorry, but there's a very good engineering reason why it's a very sensible clause.
During tightening, the wheel bolt only stetches (elastically) by only about 30 microns**. If there's any debris, between the wheel and disc, or between the rear face of the disc and the hub which would compress or embed by anything like the 30 microns, the wheel nuts will become loose. Yes!, that's a properly tightened wheel nut coming loose without any rotation or slackening - purely by embedding and compaction of carp.
** compare the thickness of a human hair ~50 to 100 microns!
Also, using a buzz gun to tighten wheel nuts is bad practice - especially so if the gun is used to hammer the bolts home, rather than to simply spin them into place.
Even without a torque wrench, you can easily use the standard wrench, after 20 miles or so, to make sure the bolts aren't about to drop off!
I used Costco to fit a couple of tyres to our E300D the other week. I'll be fitting the next tyres myself.
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Even without a torque wrench you can easily use the standard wrench after 20 miles or so to make sure the bolts aren't about to drop off!
Presumeably you'd really need to loosen them and retorque, rather than just check the torque?
I used Costco to fit a couple of tyres to our E300D the other week. I'll be fitting the next tyres myself.
Care to expand on that?
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The more usual complaint is that garages do nuts up so tightly that no ordinary human can undo them with the puny wheelbrace supplied in the usual tool kit. I do usually check mine, but that's to loosen them so that I know I can get them undone if I have to.
It sounds odd for all of them to come loose, unless they weren't tightened in the first place. When I have myself forgotten to tighten the nuts the noise has been unmistakeable.
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>>Presumeably you'd really need to loosen them and retorque, rather than just check the torque?
No, not really - it's just to check that they aren't completely loose. Ideally you would re-torque, but most people at home don't have the equipment or knowledge to do that.
>>Care to expand on that?
No, it's as close as I'll approach the naming and shaming policy.
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I'll be fitting the next tyres myself.
Have you a machine, or does your technique involve using a jack, or a big lever, or running things over? Perhaps something else... interesting.
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>>Have you a machine
No, just some very old fashioned clamps and levers. They work very well.
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Torque settings are absolutely pointless unless the components are in 'as new' condition. Quickfit operators don't derust and clean mating surfaces or spigots.
The torque wrench is just a bit of show. The 'must check wheel nuts' notice just passes the responsibility to the car owner.
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I always do, and always have done, tighten up my wheel nuts with a socket set ratchet (yes, I do know that you aren't supposed to use the ratchet for this purpose!) just as tightly as I possibly can.
Been doing this for 30 years on various different cars that I've owned, never had a problem with wheelnuts coming undone, or, for that matter, had any problems with the ratchet either, and I'm still using the same one.
I always used to check the wheelnuts for tightness after having new tyres fitted but, I'm very sorry to have to say, these days I don't bother!
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I always do and always have done tighten up my wheel nuts (...) just as tightly as I possibly can.
Cripes (swear filter permitting). If I did that, either the bolts/studs would stretch and break, or the nuts would dish out the cup in the metal of the wheel until the nut contacted the hub material - the latter being perhaps worse.
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If I did that, either the bolts/studs would stretch and break, or the nuts would dish out the cup in the metal of the wheel until the nut contacted the hub material...
It's difficult to over-torque using a spanner - in fact spanner shaft lengths generally reflect the maximum torque that need be applied - that's why small spanners have short shafts & larger ones longer. Of course, you may well have the hand & arm strength of a Geoff Capes!
When I for whatever reason change wheels, I use the supplied spanner-thing in the toolkit & tighten as hard as I can without using much body weight (or feet!) , i.e. pure twisting moment from arm strength. If the engineering principles of spanner dimensions have been adhered by the toolkit (car) maker , the torque should be about correct - I always re-check my own work after a suitable period though.
Maybe I'll start to check after visiting the tyre fitter in future after reading this thread though!
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I have also never checked the tightness of wheel bolts after a tyre change and i dont know a single person who has.
The first thing I do when I get back home after a tyre change (or a service if I think they may have removed any wheels) is loosen and then re-tighten the bolts/nuts of all four wheels with a torque wrench. For the sake of the small amount of time it takes it's better to be safe than sorry.
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Thanks all for your responses, I will find out today what the cause is and let you all know. I am fairly sure I am on to a looser with this one!
However I don't think it's un-reasonable to assume wheels are done up correctly, as some of you seem to suggest, especially as there was little sign of a problem untill a very rapid decline and failure.
And really I doubt most of the motoring public have torque wrenches, or indeed any idea what a slight knocking noise would be.
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