Posting on behalf of a colleague to try and offer him some advice.
Grand Voyager (Diesel) suffered breakdown - recovered by AA who suggested that it was likely to be an injector problem. Recovcered to main dealer as smaller outfits did not want to touch it - said they didnt want the job due to complexity etc.
Dealer removed 3 injectors and said they could be reconditioned, but No 4 needed replacing. Work completed, but problem (missing, loads of black smoke) still there. Dealer has siad that he must pay for the work they have done (17 hours labour plus parts) before they will again atempt to perform a fix.
Dosent really seem fair to me given they havent fixed the problem and bill is in 0000's not hundreds. Any advice as to where he stands?
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I think the crucial aspect of this is whether or not the (even verbal) contract between your friend & the garage was on the basis of 'Will you change the injectors, because the AA man said it was most likely the problem' or 'Can you fix my car - the AA man suggested it was the injectors, but see what you think with diagnosis'
The first (or similar) would akin to asking a greengrocer for a pound of white coloured vegetables & receiving chinese radish instead of potatoes' - clearly the greengrocer acted in good faith'
The second, asking the same greengrocer for potatoes & getting chinese radish - clearly the greengrocer has failed to provide the correct goods.
The garage can't 'undo' the work after all. If they feel they were simply asked to change parts on customer request (the contract), it seems they're within their rights to ask for payment for work done.
If your friend simply requested the car to be fixed & offered the AA opinion as a useful starting point, I feel he's on firmer ground in insisting the work done was not needed & that the garage didn't fulfill the implied contract ('please fix my car, using your expertise').
Any witnesses?
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Surely the main dealer has more idea than the AA! They have experience of the model and the AA guy has to numerous cars to worry about. The dealer is a specialist and if they are any good they would make there own diagnosis. The bill is in ''thousands'' and the problem not fixed....think I would be seeking legal advice here.
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The OP's friend has taken his car to a Chrysler main dealer to fix. They haven't fixed it yet. When they have, they can say what they have done and try to charge for it. Until then it's their problem, or ought to be. They have no right whatsoever to charge for their footling around and failing to fix the thing. I would scream the place down if I were the owner, fairly politely of course but with gritted teeth.
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from what I can see this sort of thing is quite common. Garages all too often seem to be staffed by 'module changers'; their diagnostic tools tell them 'change item 1' if that doesn't fix it change item 2. Unless you're lucky you end up paying for their guesses and in any case it's often the hourly rate that's the killer.
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Suggest your colleague contacts -
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
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17 hours!!!!
"I know, we'll bill for 17hours, the customer will kick up a fuss and we'll settle for half." :rollseyes:
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mikey
See if you can get some more info on the exact symptoms and preceding circumstances of the breakdown.
Then get them to ask the dealer for the hard evidence and test data they collected to form and confirm their diagnosis. As no-one can fully test a common-rail injector - certainly not a dealer's workshop limited to a leak-off test; exactly how did they arrive at their untenable, proven incorrect and always highly implausible conclusion.
What other tests did they carry out on the fault - surely the black smoking would have suggested a check of fuel type and quality, airflow, exhaust and EGR systems?
If they carried out a thorough, logical, series of properly focused tests; then they can rely on that to justify their labour. If they just went by vague codes and glib guesswork - they've just wasted their own time and money. By their own admission; their diagnostic procedures have manifestly failed - that's their problem, not the customers.
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17 hours?
To change injectors? Words fail me...
You want to see the timesheets of the mechnics who worked on your car. They should itemise the work done. I don't know the engine but 17 hours sound like 15 hours too many just to change injectors.
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As we don't have the car details; I'm working on the basis that this is a post-'01 CRD as nobody sane would take an 8+ year-old car to a dealers.
If that's the case; the book time to change all four CRD injectors is 24 minutes. It will be interesting to know how they spent the other two days......
What's the bill - £1900?
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An ex-mechanic told me the labour charges do not reflect the workshop overheads but also support the sales side. Hence the high hourly rates!
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What did he say about charging 17 hours for a two-hour job that hasn't worked?
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He said "There's a sucker born every minute and loads of them drive Chryslers!"
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