That doesn't sound like a major point to me so there must have been a number of other issues.
In a similar vein, a friend's daughter was picked up for passing a line of parked cars in one go and not diving into the space between each one!
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You do not fail on one item-unless that fault is extremely serious-as someone has already said,they are looking fo a general level of competence;you should ignore the other driver's signal and make your own decision and tell the examiner why if necessary.
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I do think in the OP's case, though, the examiner was wrong.
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I know there is a huge difference in confidence levels between an experienced driver and a learner on their test so I appreciate that this might be difficult to do. However, I think it would be a good idea on her next test if faced with a similar situation to make a verbal commentary on her own decisions. For example " I can see that the oncoming driver intends to let me go first. I have made eye contact and am proceeding with care. "
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One of the most useful motoring tips I have heard is to practice speaking or muttering to yourself a commentary on what you are doing, hazards ahead, etc, as I believe is used in police training.
Perhaps something like that could be usefully incorporated into the driving test?
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I do think in the OP's case though the examiner was wrong.
Yes it sounds like she should have been given a bit of leeway, but difficult to say without knowing the exact circumstances.
And it sounds like the oncoming driver was stupid to signal her, if he had right of way he should have got on with it and passed without signalling.
I remember once on a driving lesson being signalled by another driver and when I waved thanks, I was told off by my instructor, and told to ignore such things while still a learner. That was not quite the same circumstances but it reminds me not to flash or wave at learners in case it is mis-interpreted.
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I remember once on a driving lesson being signalled by another driver and when I waved thanks I was told off by my instructor and told to ignore such things while still a learner. That was not quite the same circumstances but it reminds me not to flash or wave at learners in case it is mis-interpreted.
Sounds like an instructor to avoid.
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Certainly on the HGV(LCV) test ,there were times ,for example,when the only way to get round a sharp and narrow corner was to run the trailer wheels over the kerb but you told the examiner what you were doing and he watched to see that you did it safely-ie.watch out for pedestrians and make full use of your mirrors.
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run the trailer wheels over the kerb
I'm quite surprised that's considered to be OK.
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mounting the kerb is a fail , its for pedestrians
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When I took my LGV test, clipping the kerb was a fail.
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I',m not sure if talking or muttering to ones self during a driving test would win much favour with the examiner
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make a verbal commentary on her own decisions.
On my test I had to pull in at the kerb, and then move off again. But I reversed a few yards first, which alarmed the examiner. He asked what I was doing and I explained I had seen a broken bottle on the road (that he had not seen) so didnt want to drive over it. Which seemed to impress him!
Its lucky that he asked me why, because I wasn't going to explain it, so I could have come a cropper if I had not been queried on it. I should have explained what I was going to do first before doing it.
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Also on HGV test was asked to pull into side of road and stop;I drove for about a futher half-mile before stopping-examiner asked "why" and I told him I was looking for a place to stop without blocking a driveway-no problem.But would I have failed if I had blocked one??
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I' m not sure if talking or muttering to ones self during a driving test would win much favour with the examiner
No, I didn't mean that. I meant something like the way they apparently teach police drivers. The tester would say at some point, I'd now like you to do a commentary , so you would do just that, reporting on speed, gear, indicator, other cars, signals, signs, etc.
Try it to yourself some time. It does make you think constructively and be more aware - what am I doing, why am I in this or that gear, what might that car in the side road be about to do. Slightly reminiscent of a bomb disposal expert outlining what he is about to do for the benefit of posterity
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I do think in the OP's case though the examiner was wrong.
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Bill Payer, how can you say that. Your knowledge of this test is limited to a few lines of text from an interested and biased party. The examiner is unbiased and watched the candidate's driving for 40 minutes or so before reaching a decision.
What has not been said is what effect the candidate's hsitancy when offered the opportunity to go and refusing to take it caused. It may be that a line of traffic was needlessly held up behind as a result, in which case it very definately should be marked as a serious fault.
How many of you have been sat behind a learner who has not gone when they should have, and cursed them for it. In today's traffic it is important that drivers are able to read the situation correctly and make progress when they can.
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>What has not been said is what effect the candidate's hsitancy when offered the opportunity to go and refusing to take it caused. It may be that a line of traffic was needlessly held up behind as a result, in which case it very definately should be marked as a serious fault>
As I indicated above the Examiner failed my daughter because she elected to wait after the oncoming driver flashed his lights for her to pass the parked car which was on her side of the road. This, in his view, was 'hesitation' and constituted a 'major' error resulting in immediate failure (the incident occurred at the start of the test). I believe he acted unreasonably and according to my daughter's driving instructor Examiners are ambiguous on this matter. I repeat that one of my daughter's friends failed because she moved off when an oncoming driver flashed his lights in very simila circumstances.
I for one would like some clarity on the issue as the retests are eating into my daughter's hard-earned savings. I've been driving 33 years and in my view she is a competent driver with the backing of 20 formal lessons and hundreds of miles practice in the full range of road conditions (Mways excepted).
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As someone else has said, the examiner, an impartial judge of your daughters driving, using a strict set of criteria with full training from the DSA has made a judgement on that incident that it constituted a major fault.
To be frank, I have no concern as a road user of what the financial costs are to your daughter of her not reaching the required standards of driving. Surely, the costs of not reaching the required standard could be lot more than monetary.
As an ex driving instructor myself I would say twenty formal lessons is actual the bare minimium required, even with the back up of additional milage, and would perhaps suggest the previous test failures are due to the fact that she took the tests too early ( a common and understandable problem due to peer pressure and the desire to drive) As for you think her driving is competent, of course you do- your her proud parent! The worst judge of a person's readiness to take a test, in my years as an instructor, the parent!
If you are that unhappy about the result there is a appeal process. If she has failed three tests with the same instructor than I would suggest trying another instructor, particularly if she is failing on the same sort of things. A fresh set of eyes on what your daughter is doing might help.
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>>I believe he acted unreasonably and according to my daughter's driving instructor Examiners are ambiguous on this matter.
If she would have otherwise passed then I guess you could appeal. May be worth writing and asking for clarification (although you already know how it should be - the issue is the inconsistent application).
The whole testing thing seems very random. Both my girls failed first time and both were perfectly competent drivers. Their instructor said he tries not to think about it as it just makes him angry.
When my older daughter did her first test, the instructor had put 6 kids through over a 2 week period, and the results were the exact opposite of what he expected - with 3 fails and 3 passes. One of the girls we know well is lovely but a complete airhead and she sailed though first time. She has had several bumps (nothing serious, thankfully ) since.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/03/2008 at 21:30
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Indeed, it can be frustrating as an instructor as I used to see some really good drivers fail and some I was a lot less sure of pass. That is the nature of tests though, some people respond well to the pressure of testing and lift their game, others feel more inhibited and tend to drive differently when on test. However competent a driver pink fluffy dice happens! You can not cover all the situations that can happen on a test and therefore when a 'situation' develops the learner may not respond correctly.
I have to say though, in my expreience, that generally those who where competent to pass did so (with the odd exception) and those that where borderline or I was less sure of generally failed (with the odd excepetion) Testing is a random process in that each test contains a different set of variables that would be impossible to replicate. What is not random though is the marking guidelines and procedures that the examiners follow. That is the method of ensuring a 'fair test' as each person tested, regardless of location, is being checked against fixed standards.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/03/2008 at 21:30
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Bill Payer how can you say that. Your knowledge of this test is limited to a few lines of text from an interested and biased party.
Clearly one can only comment based on the information presented, and the responses have to be taken in that context.
If the information is incomplete, or even plum wrong, then the responses will also be wrong.
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Reading the OP I can take a fair guess at what happened, bearing in mind that I was not there, like everyone else here.
The oncoming driver flashed his lights, she correctly took no notice and waited as the flash itself has no meaning, but the other driver then came to a stop and made it obvious that he was giving her priority. If the examiner felt that the oncoming drivers intentions were clear and a competent driver should have no trouble in recognising that he would quite correctly fail her.
It is dangerous to go by the word of a test candidate as to what happened on the test, I sat in the back of the car on many occassions while pupils were on test and afterwards their version of what actually happened bore no resmblance to the actual drive.
BTW,
In this particular case the candidate HAS NO GROUNDS FOR APPEAL. An appeal can only be made if the test was not conducted in accordance with the nescessary act, in which case a free retest will be given. An examiners decision cannot be overturned in any circumstances, even by a court of law.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 21/03/2008 at 19:53
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