Good Evening everyone! This afternoon I was driving my Renault Scenic Megane Y Reg 1.9dci Dynamique when I heard a noise that I thought indicated a puncture. I was about 4-5ft away from a safe parking space and proceeded to stop but then heard grating type noises sounding like plastic being smashed and my car came to an abrupt halt and a loss of all electrics. I checked for loose battery connections etc and all seemed fine. On putting the key into the ignition all the pre-start lights came on but then nothing. After close inspection by the AA both my alternator belt and timing belt were sheared. My question is now I have been made aware that this could end up being a very costly repair - idoes anyone know whether there is enough clearance for the valves not to have been damaged? Any help would be much appreciated please.
Liz
Tweak to subject line to include the oft requested detail. "What are they ?"is the question you may be asking, dear reader. Well as it happens engine and year ask quite a difference to how things work from here on. "how do we know we need to put that detail in ?" you may ask - 'cos you're asked three times before posting that's how ! - PU
{typo in header corrected - DD}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 26/06/2008 at 01:49
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Lizzie
If your valves haven't shaken hands with the pistons, be very sure to put some Lottery numbers on.
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I agree with Screwloose.
Barring a miracle, it's not a question of if there's damage, but how much. It could be anything from a few bent valves to a complete replacement engine, or any number stages in between.
Unfortunately, the only way to tell is to dismantle the engine and go from there. On the plus side, a good secondhand engine shouldn't be impossible to find if yours is found to be beyond economical repair, but you'll have to check engine codes carefully and be careful of the electronics and their interchangeability between different types.
You really need a good, reliable garage for something like this. Don't whatever you do take it to a Renault dealer.
Cheers
DP
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Thanks I thought as much. Us women drivers Eh??
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Lizzie
Can't see that it's your fault. It sounds as though the fanbelt came apart, for reasons unknown, and flailed it's way through the flimsy plastic cam-belt cover, taking that belt out as well.
That scenario is all too common - particularly on French cars; it's not rocket science for them to foresee the problem and reinforce the lower cover....
Edited by Screwloose on 11/03/2008 at 22:16
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I would think that the alternator pulley has disintegrated and the belt has munched its way thro the cam belt cover.The pulley on these is one of those overrun clutch type devices as fitted to a lot of diesel engined cars of today.hth
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OK that makes me nervous.
Do you get any warning of this, or does it just go? Is there anything that can reasonably be done to prevent it?
Cheers
DP
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I had no warning at all! Drove the car this morning into city and back again no problems No warning lights Nothing! Pulled off the drive late this afternoon and drove with no problem for about half a mile before I heard noise! Love that car!!
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When were the belts last changed?
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Sorry Don't know. But not since I've had the car for the last 3 years. With hindsight it would have better to check on this BEFORE the problem arose! But then hindsight is a wonderful thing. Mileage was 65000 when I bought it and is now 88000
Contacted several garages today and they all say the same, that head must come off to assess the damage and are all quoting from £1,000 and £1,800 to fix. One even said given the age of the car it would probably be wise just to scrap it!
Just now assessing my options! But thanks to everyone for help!
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OT
Offtopic I Know but looking for a Ford Puma for younger son, see lots (4 yesterday)of 10 years old Pumas for sale with belts gone and new engine needed.
Mainly 80-90k miles (change at 80k or 10 years ) and 10 years old....
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If you delve into any Puma forum you'll find shedloads of questions about this topic. I would suggest that a 10 year change is rather an optimistic hope.
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.>> OT Offtopic I Know but looking for a Ford Puma for younger son see lots (4 yesterday)of 10 years old Pumas for sale with belts gone and new engine needed. Mainly 80-90k miles (change at 80k or 10 years ) and 10 years old.... RE. puma timing belt. The manual says 10 years or 80k, but that was changed- the official line is now 5 years or 80k (after quite a few failed I guess) just reminded me, mine is 6 years and 76k- must get it done SOON. pumapeople.com/co.uk? have all the info
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Mileage was 65000 when I bought it and is now 88000
The timing belt change interval on the 1.9dCi is 72000, so it did well.
If you're being quoted that kind of money, I would be tempted to do a request on partsfinder or one of the breakers search engines for a complete replacement engine. Most breakers will offer at least a 14 day warranty on a used engine, so you're covered if the engine turns out to be knackered.
I reckon £800 or so for the engine, plus the labour to fit. A grand or so in total, but at least you know what it's going to cost before you start.
Cheers
DP
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Have you had the car serviced since you got it?
I'd have expected the garage to pick up that the belt needed changing.
I agree it's much better to get a used engine than try to repair the current one; cheaper, and likely to have less problems.
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Yes car has been regularly serviced and it has FSH since day one.
I am now going down the replacement engine route and looks like we are talking around a grand complete with fitting etc - So all in all a VERY expensive mistake and a lesson I'll keep in mind for the future! Let you know when I'm up and running again.
Thank you all so much!
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Lizzie, who serviced it? Did they check when the timing belts should have been changed? Did you ask them to do a service or to do a service as per manufacturers guidelines?
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If it's got a full service history, then the relevant service should have included the belt change.
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Absolute Stupidity! And have only myself to blame. I have had it serviced regularly but never indicated it should have been to manufacturers recommendations. Please no quips about WOMEN drivers (I've heard it all this week! lol) Book stamped by garage each time but never had new cam belt on since I've had it.
Car is now in garage being stripped down as I write and I am now in the lap of the gods as to the final bill!
Edited by Pugugly on 14/03/2008 at 23:24
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Lizzie
Don't beat yourself up over it. You clearly say in your first post that both the timing belt and the alternator belt had sheared. That means the alternator belt went first - so even if you had a brand-new cam-belt on there, the result would have been exactly the same.
I've seen dozens of cases where the alternator belt took the cam-belt out; but never a case the other way. When an alternator belt goes, the engine keeps running and the flailing bits do the damage.
When a cam-belt goes, the engine stops - instantly. There's no time for bits of cam-belt to chew their way out and harm the alternator belt.
Whether the garage should have changed the alternator belt is now academic; there won't be enough of it left to tell what happened to it.
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If I remember from both my 1.6 old Megane and the wife?s 1200 Cleo, that the Haines manual advocates changing all the belts far earlier than Renault suggest, Smaller engines of course, but it makes you think. Now if you had reqular agent servicing?????
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The Haynes manual for the Scenic suggests 36k instead of 72k on the 1.5 and 1.9 dCi engines, although it does also say this is mostly aimed at cars doing lots of stop/start driving, which ours does not. The dealer on the other hand reckoned Renault's 72k interval is fine.
I think I'll get ours done somewhere around the 60k mark, just to be on the safe side.
Cheers
DP
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Welcome to the world of Renault 1.9 DCi ownership.
A colleague of mine also suffered exactly the same failure due to the alternator pulley (which incorporates a clutch type component) seizing for about a second which caused the alternator belt to throw and tear into the timing belt cover and then into the timing belt which snapped... whilst driving at 70mph.
Cylinder head was royally trashed with snapped exhaust and inlet valves.
Renault main dealer had it for ten days, the bill was £1600 and to add insult to financial injury the technicians forgot to tighten up the coolant hoses and as owner got to about a mile from garage the engine overheated after all coolant made a bid for freedom.
I read somewhere that some DCi camshaft pulleys have a sacrificial pin that snaps if valves and pistons meet. The theory that damage is limited if the timing belt lets go...
Renault know about the alternator pulley problem and I believe a recall notice was issued for this component to be changed but no doubt some cars slip through the net. Having said that, my colleagues Scenic had already had a new alternator fitted before the pulley threw the alternator belt.
As well as the timing belt failure, his Scenic has also suffered EGR valve failure which caused the turbo unit to over-heat, cooked the oil seals and made the compressor touch the housing which then shed blade fragments into the engine.
That was another £1500 and needless to say Renault are not on his christmas card list anymore...
MEGA SNIPQUOTE
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/03/2008 at 13:39
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As well as the timing belt failure his Scenic has also suffered EGR valve failure which caused the turbo unit to over-heat cooked the oil seals and made the compressor touch the housing which then shed blade fragments into the engine.
This was only an issue on the earlier 1.9dCi engines - later (04-on) cars are OK unless you get an odd build with an early type engine. Renault also extended the warranty to 5 yrs / 100k on affected engines.
It's urine-poor that this should happen, don't get me wrong, and it's not acceptable, but nobody ever seems to mention that Renault fixed the problem, modified both EGR valve and turbo design, and the few people I knew it happened to were all seen OK. Unlike many other manufacturers who continue to pump out engines with the same old faults they've had for years, and try to blame owners (or filling station owners) when they go wrong.
No it shouldn't happen, but Renault did something about it. Many other manufacturers don't bother.
Cheers
DP
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Hi DP
I'm glad Renault are making amends by re-designing the EGR and timing belt issues (amongst other problems) , as I've always thought that Renault produce some great looking cars with some innovative features. It's just unfortunate that many owners have shelled out their hard earned money to repair components that should never have failed in such catastrophic ways. Many manufacturers have EGR problems but considering these devices have been around for at least 20 years in one form or another one would think they and other car makers would get it right. After all automotive engineering isn't rocket science. But at the end of the day, component failures means every next generation of car will hopefully not suffer the same faults as ultimately it's the buying public that test the cars in real world conditions. We are - for want of a better word - guinea pigs.
Edited by Webmaster on 20/03/2008 at 19:11
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Thanks for everyone's help. Car is now finally back on the road after a mammoth bill of £1350.00. 2 valves bent, New Alternator also fitted as after repairs had been done Mechanic noticed loud noise and by process of elimination discovered that as the alternator is clutched this is what probably caused the belts to go.
Only got car back this afternoon!!
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Lizzie
Ouch! Those one-way clutch alternator pulleys often go on these; they usually chatter at idle for a bit first though and the sprung tensioner dances around.
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Lucky old me!
Same thing just happened to me.
Timing belt intact but has undoubtedly slipped a couple of teeth on cam pulley as engine stopped. If I were really luck it would just be the fip that was out of sync (so I put some money on tonights lottery)
There is a slight knocking when engine turned over so something has caught.
One problem now is I would like to check the timing before I fit a new cambelt to see if there is any more internal damage, but there are no obvious timing marks on any of the pulleys or indeed the case.
Does anyone have a timing diagram they could email me?
Thanks Si_M
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Sorry can't help Si_M. Have been reading this thread and wondered if anyone can help me. Just been told by renault dealer that my 54 plate scenic which has only done 27000 miles needs a dephaser pulley/timing belt to the cost of £550. Only bought the car 7 months ago and is still under warranty. Should this happen with such little milage and should warranty cover it?
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Stetra
Should it? No. Does it? Often. Those variable can-timing devices were under-developed.
The belt/tensioners have to be changed as, once removed to change the pulley, they cannot be refitted.
As to whether your after-sale warranty will cover it; you'll have to ask them.
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Desperate for help here...Reading this post with interest. Car died last night!
We own a 1.8 petrol Renault Scenic dynamique 52 reg.
Only 41000 miles on the clock.
Last serviced 3 months ago *** and less than one thousand miles ago ***
Last night I was driving home ( 20 mile journey ) and had just entered my road when I suddenly lost all power ( except electrics )...Initially thought I had somehow stalled the car. Stopped and tried to re-start engine. All dashboard lights lit and ignition turned but didn't kick in.
Managed to push my car home the final 100 meters ( lucky so far! )
Got the car picked up today via our recovery policy ( bloke who picked up my car pointed to the alternator belt which had frayed slightly at the edge of the belt ) and so took it to the same local garage who serviced my car back in March.
They have since told me that a piece of the altenator belt has broken away and taken out the timing belt. They haven't yet given me an estimate but told me that best case scenario I am looking at paying out £1500 due to valves / piston damage.
I am livid. For one I believe that they should have noted that my alternator belt was wearing back in March when I paid them £280 to service.
Secondly for the fact that they claim they would have checked the belts when it was serviced and they must have been ok back then! I haven't even opened my bonnett since it was serviced except to top up the windscreen wash...
How could it fray so quickly and unexpectedly? And could the garage be responsible for not checking?
Rob
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Oh surprise surprise!We have just bought a Renault Scenic 2.0 litre petrol engine about 5 weeks ago.Regularly serviced,the timing belt had according to the local Renault dealer still had 20,000 miles left in it.So guess what,in between getting a Haynes manual and getting ready to change it ahead of time ,and recieving the registration document to show we were the proud owners- yes you've guessed it.The edge of the auxiliary belt(about 4 mm. square) shredded away and somehow part of it managed to get through the cambelt covers.The rest is history,the crankshaft sprocket slipped(they have no woodruff keys inserted) and having spent £1650 a few weeks ago,we have another £1100 to spend at the last count.This will be our one and only Renault car,especially having read the above stories,never again!
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May I join the club. My Scenic 2003 had only 34,000 miles and the same happend to me. I did like the car but facing such a expensive repair i'm adding my vote NO MORE RENAULT
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timing belt snapped whilst driving home on motorway 1 a.m in morning. Causing at least £1200 of damage. Only had cam belt changed four months ago!! Been told that this should not have happened unless been fitted incorrectly by mechanic, need to know what my rights are with regard to compensation. Will be steering well clear of Renaults, had nothing but trouble!!
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Reading this thread has been (for me) worse than The Texas Chainsaw Massacre in terms of pure un-adulterated horror !!!
I know there are many that swear by Renaults, but I swear at them (from experience)
A lot of young mums use these cars, young mums on the bread-line and to have to fork out over a grand in repaires don't bare thinking about ... in my mobile tuning days, I would always check all belts and replace where necessary + advise customers about the dreaded belt that is just waiting to attack their wallet *WITH A VENGENCE*
I shall have nightmares tonight over this, about being flailed with broken drive belts !
At least my present Nissan Almera has a timing chian (shhh screwloose !!!!!!!!!)
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Dog
I'm saying nothing....
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Just wondered if you got this sorted and did the garage admit responsibility?
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i was driving my megane 16v dynamique on the M1 north yesterday night when i thought i'd had a tyre, was trying at 70mph but managed to get onto the hard shoulder. i tried starting it but it wouldnt turnover although the lights and the stereo were still on and from what i have been reading, iam sure its the cambelt and will be taking it to the garage tomorrow...am dreading it. will update u all tomorrow.
mandy
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