Well it's something to do innit
;-)
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in truth i would like to abolish speed limits , just drive at an an appropriate speed for the conditions . the road in question you would be hard pushed to get to forty. ,and given the general dumbing down of the population , the nsp seems to send out the wrong message
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most country lanes are NSL.......but the ones where i grew up you'd be hard pressed to physically reach 40mph, let alone want to drive at that speed. So you learn to adapt and restrict your speed to what is appropriate, rather than blindly follow an upper limit someone else has set for you...because lets say you're successful and the limit is reduced to 40, there will still be some days and some conditions where that is still too much...but the local mimsers will have been used to travelling at the 40mph limit and will be less inclined to adjust downwards when they ought to, whereas if left at 60mph, they'd be more likely to actually 'think' and work out what speed they thought it safe to travel at
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I think that on most roads the safe driving speed sets itself. People naturally slow down when there are hazards about - narrowings, parked vehicles, busy pavements and, of course, other traffic. The most obvious illustration is that when traffic volumes are heavy the speed of traffic slows.
Do we need speed limits at all? Probably on urban arterial roads on which, even when relatively deserted, the frequency of 'hazard potential' (let's say), as opposed to hazards actually present, suggests that driving at racetrack speeds is unwise.
Now so many of our extra-urban single-carriageway A and B roads are limited to 50 mph (or 40 even), it is rather amusing - and ridiculous - that at the entrance to little lanes leading off there are NSL signs...
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So you want the council to waste tax payers money monitoring the road because you feel that the NSL sends out the wrong message?
I'm all for road safety and reducing limits if it will help. I think you need to explain your reasoning.
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most country lanes are NSL.......but the ones where i grew up you'd be hard pressed to physically reach 40mph let alone want to drive at that speed. So you learn to adapt and restrict your speed to what is appropriate rather than blindly follow an upper limit someone else has set for you...because lets say you're successful and the limit is reduced to 40 there will still be some days and some conditions where that is still too much...but the local mimsers will have been used to travelling at the 40mph limit and will be less inclined to adjust downwards when they ought to whereas if left at 60mph they'd be more likely to actually 'think' and work out what speed they thought it safe to travel at
Very amusing! So people "think" more when there is a 60mph rather than where there is a 40mph limit? Unfortunately that is not the way that human nature works. I live by a country road with a 60mph limit, it has many twists and turns; a 30mph limit would be more appropriate. I daily see drivers travelling far too fast and approaching blind corners at excessive speed. There have been a LOT of accidents on this road. Modern cars have far superior performance than cars 20 or 30 years ago and in many vehicles its possible to 'physically reach' 60mph in a very short distance.
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Modern cars have far superior performance than cars 20 or 30 years agoand in many vehicles its possible to 'physically reach' 60mph in a very short distance.
A good point; combine that with vastly better braking, tyres , handling and safety, throw in the generally lower standards of road manners and consideration, and factor in the vastly higher numbers of vehicles on the road ; perhaps we shouldn't be surprised to see so many traffic calming measures after all.
I still don't want to see every stretch of road with it's own "personal" speed limit though. There are far too many road signs about already.
Edited by Harleyman on 11/03/2008 at 09:34
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<"There are far too many road signs about already."
Absolutely agree: My particular bugbear is the road sign that reads simply "SLOW".
How slow? What is slow? Slow for a Porsche or slow for a 50cc Ligier microcar?
Bonkers.
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my favourite sign post is the one with the elderly couple shuffling across the road, What i would like to know is how do the highway agencies know that an old couple will be crossing there ?
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how do the highway agencies know that anold couple will be crossing there ?
I suppose it depends how long the sign's been up for? ;-)
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How slow? What is slow? Slow for a Porsche or slow for a 50cc Ligier microcar?
'Slow' isn't a speed, it's an advisory instruction for drivers who can't see the hazard shaping up in front of them (usually a not-very-challenging bend, but surprises are always possible).
What it means is: Lift off if you are going very quickly, but don't bother if you are already mimsing.
Of course people who are going very quickly will already have assessed the hazard and will be taking appropriate measures (zapping down through a couple of ratios and getting the tail out perhaps :o}). The only people who will actually slow down obediently on seeing the sign are nervous mimsers who are already going too slowly. But we know that from experience, don't we?
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Very amusing! So people "think" more when there is a 60mph rather than where there is a 40mph limit? Unfortunately that is not the way that human nature works. >>
My post wasn't meant to be amusing and I beg to differ.
If you regulate people too much, they become used to it and the inclination is to not think for yourself but follow the crowd or follow the regulations. However, if there is no easy path to follow, then you have to think for yourself.
I take the point about the dangerous A road and people regularly going off at the bends, but that heightens my point....that will be people unused to thinking for themselves...maybe townies or people who live in an area where the local authority has sanitised everything so much that they're not used to considering danger, so blindly whizz along and then can't deal with a situation when it 'springs' on them.
Examples are the set ups on the continent where accidents have been reduced where everyone has a free for all and there's no pavements, far less signs etc.. and drivers are removed from their comfort zones and have to consider, God Forbid, the hazards.
Another example is the dangerous bend with shell grip on it or the modern car with all the gizmos such as dynamic stability control...people just drive faster blissfully unaware of the dangers
whereas having driven a mark4 Cortina around a wet roundabout i know the laws of physics when relevant to a car and a wet road surface, how many young people in a Corsa or 206 can say the same?
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p.s.
the oik who drives too fast all the time and couldn't care less about the dangers is going to do that whatever the speed limit is, so why not have a sensible limit that allows everyone else to consider their options and actually think about their driving
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What is shell grip Wp?
I suppose it must be that abrasive stuff, quite often painted in unlikely and worrying colours, that they put on bends and the approaches to lights and roundabouts these days.
Does it really contain crushed oyster and mussel shells?
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why not havea sensible limit that allows everyone else to consider their options and actually think about their driving
I'm not sure I agree - perhaps 30 years ago it might have worked, when people actually thought for themsleves, didn't rely on the Gov or whoever to tell them what was dangerous and what wasn't - you know, that little thought in the back of your mind called "Common Sense"!!
Trouble is now, as others have pointed out, the majority of motorists want spoon fed, to be told when to slow down, what speed is dangerous, etc - the art of looking where you are going, checking the road conditions, etc, and then making an informed judgement has long gone for the majority - take away all those signs and speed limits and you'd have carnage....
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Trouble is now as others have pointed out the majority of motorists want spoon fed to be told when to slow down what speed is dangerous etc - the art of looking where you are going checking the road conditions etc and then making an informed judgement has long gone for the majority
Does this apply to your good self as well? Or is it only 'the others' who behave like this? Most of the drivers I know seem to be still perfectly able to use their judgement. Limits and regulations are there to protect the sensible majority from the crazy minority who would attempt to hit 100mph on their local B-roads on a wet and dark night. You only have to read some of the websites out there, and take a look at YouTube to see that there are a lot of 'performance car' enthusiasts, and other assorted loonies, who think nothing of driving at three figures in totally inappropriate circumstances. The imposition of limits at least gives the police some leverage in bringing these people to heel.
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Most of the drivers I know seem to be still perfectlyable to use their judgement. Limits and regulations are there to protect the sensible majority from the crazy minority who would attempt to hit 100mph on their local B-roads on a wet and dark night. You only have to read some of the websites out there and take a look at YouTube to see that there are a lot of 'performance car' enthusiasts and other assorted loonies who think nothing of driving at three figures in totally inappropriate circumstances. The imposition of limits at least gives the police some leverage in bringing these people to heel.
The point I was making is that the original suggestion indicated just having a "blanket" limit over all roads and let people make up their own mind what was safe or sensible - I didn't agree with that, and, it seems, neither do you... and yes, there are a lot of people who can't judge their speed and bends properly or even bother to read the road ahead and need the assistance of signs, etc to help them, if you want to see what I mean go and stand by a roundabout for a while and see how many people actually check traffic on the roundabout as they approach it and so save themselves stopping and are able to merge smoothly - they are in the minority - and I'm one of them, which answers your dig at me.....
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WP - you are spot on. When studying for my degree we had to cover the subject of how organisations are formed and a key part of it was the different ways in which people are managed. The key thing I remember is that if you give people explicit instructions they tend to do exactly as told - but nothing more.
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>>if you give people explicit instructions they tend to do exactly as told - but nothingmore.
Interesting, because I've found the same thing since getting married, i.e. I find that I don't think for myself as often as I used to.
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If any of you think that doing away with speed limits and 'letting people think for themselves' is a good idea then please take a visit to parts of the world where this is the norm (India, some North African countries, Egypt). Its a recipe for carnage and chaos (been there and got the tee shirt). God forbid that we ever take that option. Give me speed limits and regulation every time!
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I'm with Westpig on this. When you're moving along nicely, you tend to pay attention. When you are herded along, you don't. There are a number of roads locally, nice big wide ones, that could almost be four lanes, but are painted into a two lane carriageway. 30 and 40 limits for 12 miles between two towns, lots of commuter traffic in the mornings.
When it used to be a NSL, then things were fine and moving. Now it's a crawl, people are on autopilot many like zombies. Those that aren't asleep are reading the paper, shaving or applying makeup (two of those mainly mutually exclusive).
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I'm with Westpig on this. When you're moving along nicely you tend to pay attention. When you are herded along you don't.
I don't understand the bit about being 'herded'.
I'm as able to concentrate at 40mph as at 60mph, no problem for me. Maybe try some driver training if you have problems concentrating (or perhaps it just other people that have this problem?).
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Boredom tends to make people drive badly Qx. We all know there's a certain traffic volume and that our speed is dictated by other drivers, but no one can be blamed for thinking sometimes that there are limits to this laid-back tolerant stuff. There's a lot of unthinking pressure on all levels of society, even here in the back room, to make traffic slower and slower, for no earthly reason that I can understand. And sometimes on busy summer weekends on the roads in the south-east one begins to wonder if one might not have died and gone to a subtle, insinuating, very annoying sort of hell.
Anyway whether or not this represents Westpig's thinking, or part of it, it does represent mine, and is the reason why I am so much given to making intemperate pro-speed, anti-mimser posts here and setting a bad example to the young.
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My earlier point about the "SLOW" road sign is that although I do slow down (whistles whilst polishing halo), a lot of people don't and perhaps need a bit more, shall we say, encouragement. "Some" drivers tend to see the word SLOW almost as a criticism - Hey you, why so slow?
I notice the SLOW signs more when I'm in the UK as in other countries (I live in Spain) there is no equivalent and we are far more used to signs telling us to slow down to a specific 80, 60 or 40 kph, usually well in advance. With the ever present threat of radars, points on the licence and fines, people do slow down, really!
(Not that I'd suggest for a moment that the powers-that-be should set even more speed traps than there are already...)
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I notice the SLOW signs more when I'm in the UK as in other countries (I live in Spain) there is no equivalent and we are far more used to signs telling us to slow down to a specific 80 60 or 40 kph usually well in advance.
You have obviously got used to the Spanish system Bilboman. I did a week of driving in Menorca last year and I think the signage is excessive. I would rather decide for myself the rate at which I want to slow down for a roundabout, not have 80, 60, 40, 30kph signs at intervals. If the speed limit is 80kph and the upcoming roundabout has a limit of 30kph, then there are only two signs required IMO.
There were some ridiculous ones on a dual carriageway ring road where the length of road you were permitted to travel at the top speed was about 150 yards, before you were instructed to start slowing for the next roundabout.
I dont see a problem with 'Slow' signs; drivers ought to be able to judge whether their speed is appropriate for a hazard.Its a warning to take care, ensure you are driving within the capabilites of your car and the conditions, and be prepared for an unforseen hazard.
An appropriate speed to take a corner can differ from one car/driver to the next, and that is not a problem as long as slow and fast drivers extend courtesy towards each other when in the same vicinity.
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i'm not saying we should have a 'free for all' where anything goes, in fact there's some things i'd like to see clamp downs on e.g. document checks for No Ins and No D/L, eye sight, saftety of vehicles, etc.
but... not an ever pervading slow down of vehicle speeds because of ever increasingly slower limits and whilst i'm moaning...let's not have so many signs that they all merge into one and many people ignore them. Leave it so that only the important signs are displayed, so if you see one you realise it's a problem. Set the limits sensibly and consistently so a driver can know it's there for a reason, whereas now there's great swathes of the country with artifically low limits and what a surprise, they're often ignored.
There used to be a system of A road driving where you'd notice the longer white broken lines and realise you could overtake but there was still a hazard that maybe you might be unaware of, then when you got to the smaller white broken lines, you'd realise you could overtake with more safety. Nowadays the likelihood is the whole section has double solid white lines.... educate drivers to up their game, not make them all into robots who can't think...and cannot ever react properly to an emergency, because they don't know how.
Edited by Westpig on 12/03/2008 at 15:29
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Sorry WP, misinterpreted you previous post - agree with you btw!
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Some v good points, Westpig.
I'm dismayed at the wider and wider imposition of 50 - even 40 - limits on rural roads that are relatively hazard-free. At 50 mph people do drive along with their minds in neutral, and for many that seems to be the speed they're naturally comfortable with, making driving (too) 'nice and easy'. As I said earlier, when traffic is heavy, and accidents more likely, traffic naturally slows anyway - no need for a speed limit.
Following mimsers I'm afraid I'm bored and frustrated (but I try to be aware of the former and control the latter). When I've a clear road I drive as fast as the conditions allow and I'm on the alert for hazards. Very satisfying and actually safer.
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