Toyota - Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Thu 6 Mar 2008 19:22

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Hi,
Well, new to the site - found it in panic mode!

I'm in the Alps with an Estima that no-one in Austria recognises. Had it trailered home as breakdown guy did lots of scratching of head but could not repair.

Symptoms: Engine won't start at all.

Filter Ok, no water, primer button pumps and goes hard when full.
Battery OK, everthing else electrical works, engine turns OK.

Diesel in pump, but not at injectors. Diesel at solenoid cut-out valve (and the filter under it is clean).

Easy Start in air-intake makes engine fire - but won't carry on without the Easy Start.

Denso computer 89661-28580 (anyone got the pin-outs?)

I seem to have about 11.5 volts going into various pins on the ECU.
I have 9 volts to the fuel cut-off solenoid.
I have 5.4 volts at both wires on one of the 4 electonic valves on the pump that control fuel to the injectors on the pump.
Engine earth seems OK.

I did a diagnostic test - (the engine had not run since the ECU had been disconnected for a night).
I get flashes showing everything is wrong - coolent temp,intake air temp signal, alt register, turbo pressure sensor, fuel temp sensor, throttle position sensor.

To me (and this is the first diesel I've owned so I'm working in ignorance) it seems there is not the correct voltage from the ECU, so the sensors are not giving correct readings back - and the voltage out is not enough to open the solenoid or work the valves in the pump. BUT - that's just a guess thought out after a couple of nights dreaming - or more accurately nightmaring - about the problem.

Of course I also don't know if there should be a supply to the ECU that has failed as I don't know the pins.

I've put posts on Toyota forums, but after lots of suggestions Ive drawn a blank. I need a real expert to help with this one!

Hope someone can help,
Thanks,
Yodeller (well I can't really Yodel, but being in Austria I thought it sounded good!)

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Thu 6 Mar 2008 19:57

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Dave N

Is the fuel cut solenoid actually working? Have you hard wired it and heard it click?

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Fri 7 Mar 2008 13:26

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Hi,

Wow, thanks for the speedy reply.

When I just turn the ignition on I don't hear a click. If I connect a wire to the solenoid from the battery I do. I took the valve off and checked it as well - from the battery, and it works.
This is one of the reasons I think it is a fualt that is lowering the voltage from the ECU.

Love any other ideas,
ThanksYodeller

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Thu 6 Mar 2008 20:09

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Screwloose

Yodeller

As always with JDM imports, there's a total lack of the essential data from the usual sources. Was this just a non-start or something else?

The only EU-spec Toyota to use the 3CT-E is the Picnic from '97 to '01. While the wiring will be different, the pump tests will be available; so get it to a diesel specialist, as this is looking like a pump fault.

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Fri 7 Mar 2008 13:36

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Hi,

Yes a real problem not having data.

As always with JDM imports there's a total lack of the essential data from the

usual sources. Was this just a non-start or something else?

I was driving and the engine just stopped with no warning. No coughing or slowing down - just dead. Tried to start it and no-go.

The only EU-spec Toyota to use the 3CT-E is the Picnic from '97 to '01.

Thats useful to know.

While the wiring will be different the pump tests will be available; so get it

to a diesel specialist as this is looking like a pump fault.

Hm, I'd better start looking in the translation dictionary for that one as my German is as no-go as the car. I know "Diesel" and "Pumpe", but whether they use the two words together .....

Thanks so very much for your reply, I was bought up on rotor arms and condensors so all this electronics stuff gets a bit tricky every now and again.

Thanks,
Yodeller
>>>> Yodeller

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Fri 7 Mar 2008 17:56

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Blimy I'm going senile!

The breakdown chap "checked" all the fuses.
So once it was back home I started having a good look at the car, doing the important things like "Hum" and "Well" and head-scratching and the like.

Then I had a look at fuses and found one marked AM2 (a really useful marking) which had blown.

I replaced the fuse (with the correct size) and the engine STARTED - and I drove the car into my garage from the drive. It ran OK, or as OK as a just-started diesel does.

Next morning - no go! Fuse still OK (so whether it was the fuse I can't tell).

I'm still wondering if it is a loose connection or failure in one of the power supplies to the ECU.

Perhaps you can tell me, as I just don't understand these things - the pump has various valves and other bits with wires connected, like the solenoid valve, and four similar looking ones that I assume control the fuel to the injectors. If these are electronically conteolled then why does the pump have to be aligned correctly with the timing belt - or are they just "fine-tuning" devices? I'm assuming the timing belt hasn't slipped as the engine fires with a spray into the air-filter.

Thanks again,
Yodeller

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Fri 7 Mar 2008 18:20

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - madf

Does the engine still start if you spray starter fluid into the air cleaner? (your last paragraph)

That suggests a fuelling or glow plug problem.

the fact that the engine started with a replaced fuse...but then did not restart suggests it may be a glowplug problem.
Have you checked they work?

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Fri 7 Mar 2008 20:12

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Hi,
I haven't checked the glowplugs as I assumed, because the engine stopped and would not start when it was hot, that they would be OK. but that, of course was the first time, the next morning could be a different story.

But - a good idea - I'll check them tomorrow. it's been a bit chilly the last couple of days (-5 or so) so they need to be 100%.

I'll also check that it does still try with starter fluid.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Yodeller

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Sun 16 Mar 2008 18:52

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Well, weather a bit warmer so I've been out playing.
Glowplugs OK.
Still fires with starting fluid.
No diesel at injectors even after a good turn-over.

Now, as it stopped suddenly it would imply that wear in the pump is not the answer.
I'm still convinced it's an electronic problem - either ecu or I think even more probably the supply to the ecu (just a hunch).

I do wish there were circuit diagrams available for this car!

Thansk for the help,
Yodeller

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Sun 16 Mar 2008 19:44

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - thomp1983

the fuse am2 you replaced is ignition related, and is in the under bonnet fuse box yes?

in the interior fuse box on passenger side check fuse numbers, 3 (7.5a), 4 (7.5a), and 10 (7.5a) in fact id replace them with new fuses to make sure, all 3 of them relate to the injection system.

if you can wait till easter weekend i think the american workshop manual my dad has for his estima has wiring diagrams in it and i can scan them for you

chris

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Sun 16 Mar 2008 19:51

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - thomp1983

oh and another thing, have you actually removed no1 injector at the pump body to see if diesel is coming from the pump on turn over, and have you removed the fuel pipe going into the pump to check it has diesel in it?

have you tried turning it over with a direct 12v feed to the fuel cut of solenoid?

chris

Edited by thomp1983 on 16/03/2008 at 19:53

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Mon 17 Mar 2008 18:58

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Thanks so much for your replies.

If there is a wiring diagram I would be really happy. Even if I get this problem sorted I've had an electrical fault on the heater/aircon for a year!

Here's the update of yesterday and today's working:
1. The engine started!!!!
2. I've still to solve the actual fault!

I checked yesterday (again) that there is no diesel to injectors. I had already checked the solenoid and found it works - but it does not click on with the ignition (even though there is 12 volts going to it).

Diesel still fine into the pump, and the manual primer pump goes solid after press.

As the solenoid valve does not click with ignition on I ran a lead from the battery to the solenoid (it then clicks OK) and tried the engine - would not start.

I have wondered if there is a high resistance somewhere that gives 12 volts, but no amps - and wondered if the same was happening to the ECU. So I ran 12 volts to the solenoid - and also into the wire that usually goes to the solenoid. (thinking if it is a bad connection perhaps this would power the rest of the circuit).

The engine then runs OK!

If the ignition is off, when I connect power to the wire that usually goes to the solenoid, there are various clicks from relays, so it seems I am powering up the ignition circuit.

So I can power the ignition from the wire to the solenoid, but the ignition itself will not supply enough current to make the solenoid (or ECU) work.

I suppose I could run a new wire from something that is on the ignition circuit and properly works to the solenoid valve and also to it's connecting wire and use the car like that. But I won't have a great deal of confidence this will be a permanent solution!

Now I need to trace the wiring back from the solenoid to see what the actual fault is - I expect it's a plug and socket or join that is playing up.

Trouble is - where does the wire go??? It goes from the solenoid valve into the car, does not go to the ECU, runs up past the floorwell fusebox into the abyss above and beyond - somewhere behind the dash.

But - with your suggestion, I'll change fuses instead of just checking them, I may well have missed a tiny break, or perhaps the pins on one of them does not give a good contact.

If anyone has any ideas where the ignition circuit branches out from the wire coming for the ignition switch I'd be really pleased to hear.

Thanks again, thomp1983, your posting is gratefully recieved - and if the wiring diagram is relevant I'll be over the moon.

I'll try the fuses tomorrow and post back.

All the best,

yodeller

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Wed 19 Mar 2008 18:09

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - yodeller

Repaired!!!

Relay broken!!!!

On the translated fuse box label the fuse is called "Rear Heater".

The illustrations from the Toyota EPC show that the relay (they call it number 9 - second from left, bottom row in fusebox) can have different functions according to model:

TCR1 and TCR2 - oil level. CXR1 and CXR2 - Rear Heater - but on the EFI models it is for a "Spill Valve".

The thing that is really silly is the Diesel has what they call ECD, the petrol is EFI - so I didn't link the relay to anything other than rear heater until I was able to trace it back.

Then in the parts list it's called a "Relay assy, circuit opening"!

So - new relay needed - I've swapped it with one of the heater ones for now!

So - thanks again for the answers. It's taken a lot of time, but success in the end!

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Sat 5 Jul 2008 07:02

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Fwu

Hi,
My diesel estima 1993 has similiar problem. The engine was running on the road. I heard small click noise while slow down before a tranffic light, then engine stopped. I guss the problem is electric circuit related. So your post is very helpful.
There are two fuse boxes in the car, one is interior on passage side, the other is inside front near battery. Which is the fuse box mentioned in your last post ?

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Sun 6 Jul 2008 18:26

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - thomp1983

fwu you need to start with the basics before deciding it's an electrical problem.

does the car start at all? is the timing belt in one piece? are the glow plugs working? is there diesel at the injectors? without any of those 3 you won't get it to start, once you confirm which one isn't happening then you can try to find the cause.

chris

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Mon 7 Jul 2008 04:21

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Fwu

fwu you need to start with the basics before deciding it's an electrical problem.

SNIPQUOTE!
You are right. After I checked all fuses and relays, and the glow plug last. The glow plug was burnt out. I should check it first. A good glow plug was plug in, but engine is still not start. one pin of the socket was not perfect a well, maybe not good conacting ? What is the current for the big pin, any ideal ?

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 07/07/2008 at 11:16

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Mon 7 Jul 2008 11:32

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - thomp1983

you should be getting around 12v to the glowplugs with ignition on. i assume the other 3 work fine? is the timing belt definately ok? is there diesel at the injectors?

chris

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Tue 8 Jul 2008 11:24

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Fwu

Change a good glow plug and test ok, the engine still not start. It seems glow plug malfuction before the engine stops. In NZ, may not need the glow plug to start engine.
No diesel at the ejector, the timming belt have checked yet. The cut off valve is ok. So either timming belt or fuel pump not good.
I'm hesitate to go aheah to continue my DIY or get rid of the junk, the good running 1993 estima worth about NZ$2000. But this car is very economic to run. Every tank of diesel can crank up 500km in city area.
How hard to change timming belt or fuel pump ?
Frank

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Tue 8 Jul 2008 22:29

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - thomp1983

if the timing belt has failed then it will be expensive as it will have damaged valves etc. ive never changed a belt or fuel pump on one of these but there is plenty of room to work in and the guides to the timing belt make it appear straight forward enough.

if there is no fuel at the injectors then it may be an electrical fault, or the stop solenoid on the pump has died, but first off the belt will have to be checked, if i remember rightly you can get access to the belt by just removing the front left seat (as your sat in the car facing forward, sorry not sure if nz is lhd or rhd) remove the access panel in the foor then you can reach the upper timing belt cover which i think is just clipped on.

chris

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Sun 29 Nov 2015 10:01

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Josh25

Hello i have a problem with the glow plug timer. Glow plug just work in just less than a second. Is their a relay or timer that can prolong the time of heating

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Mon 14 Mar 2011 21:51

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Sparkie

Hi, I live in New Zealand and we have a lot of this model toyota over here, common cause is corrosion in the ECU (located beside the left hand side front seat). crack the diesel feed line to an injector, and try to start vehicle, diesey should "Pulse" out of the fitting, next check voltage to the glow plugs, if no diesel and no power to glows have computor repaired.

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Mon 11 Apr 2011 14:31

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Kalosh

I have the same problem with mine, it drove it into the garage ad it's not left. The engine crancks but thecar does not come on, checked the fuel pump it's fine the glo plugs are fine too, solenoid is at 12v, fuses are also ok checked them all, I feel like i'll go crazy coz everything i check seems to be ok but the car won't start, there is white smoke as it crunk.....this is also my first diesel car...help please!!

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Sun 4 Dec 2011 01:44

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Maddox

Hi Kalosh,did you find any luck fixing the diesel fault on your bus?

I have a 96 Estima 2.2 T.D which happens to have a similar fault,This started after we changed the Injector pump.it cranks but wont start.whe the uginition is at the on position,the spilvalve solenoid contiously clicks which is not suposed to happen,also i tried loosening the injector fuel line pipes at the pump and no diesel is shot out at all,the only way the engine starts is when the earth wire at the spillvaleve solenoid is directly attached to the body at which point the ticking sound goes away and the engine starts but it revs itself to over 2000Rpms with a disel knock sound.see vdieo:>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBuSB3SsSfU

I have checked all wires to the ECU for possible fualts but seems fine.I have also tried another ECU but the problem still persists.I also tried the original pump it had but its oddlly still does the same.I have checked all fuses ad relays and they all seem fine.

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Sun 4 Dec 2011 01:48

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - Maddox

Hi, Well, new to the site - found it in panic mode! I'm in the Alps with an Estima that no-one in Austria recognises. Had it trailered home as breakdown guy did lots of scratching of head but could not repair. Symptoms: Engine won't start at all. Filter Ok, no water, primer button pumps and goes hard when full. Battery OK, everthing else electrical works, engine turns OK. Diesel in pump, but not at injectors. Diesel at solenoid cut-out valve (and the filter under it is clean). Easy Start in air-intake makes engine fire - but won't carry on without the Easy Start. Denso computer 89661-28580 (anyone got the pin-outs?) I seem to have about 11.5 volts going into various pins on the ECU. I have 9 volts to the fuel cut-off solenoid. I have 5.4 volts at both wires on one of the 4 electonic valves on the pump that control fuel to the injectors on the pump. Engine earth seems OK. I did a diagnostic test - (the engine had not run since the ECU had been disconnected for a night). I get flashes showing everything is wrong - coolent temp,intake air temp signal, alt register, turbo pressure sensor, fuel temp sensor, throttle position sensor. To me (and this is the first diesel I've owned so I'm working in ignorance) it seems there is not the correct voltage from the ECU, so the sensors are not giving correct readings back - and the voltage out is not enough to open the solenoid or work the valves in the pump. BUT - that's just a guess thought out after a couple of nights dreaming - or more accurately nightmaring - about the problem. Of course I also don't know if there should be a supply to the ECU that has failed as I don't know the pins. I've put posts on Toyota forums, but after lots of suggestions Ive drawn a blank. I need a real expert to help with this one! Hope someone can help, Thanks, Yodeller (well I can't really Yodel, but being in Austria I thought it sounded good!)

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Wed 3 Apr 2013 10:01

Estima 1996, 2.2 3CT-E engine. Diesel fault. - tired old toyota

OK long time ago this thread started, however Toyota diesel spill valves will be giving trouble well into the future.

I have an intermittent non firing fault with my 2lte engined 1993 Prado, doesn't seem temp related, however, a smart tap with mallet on the side of the spill valve, whilst the ignition is on seems to clear the fault and allow the motor to fire and run.

I went to a diesel doctor type place and a helpful fellow there told me the spill vave isn't just an on / off thing, it has a pulse width modulated signal from the ECU, all part of the EFI system, allowing correct metering and pump timing and a whole heap of other techno stuff, it is also not a direct feed from the 12v system, there is a relay between the ECU and the spill valve,

I feel that my fault is due to the valve internals intermittently catching due to wear after 20 years, and a quick tap with a mallet re-arranges the internals and so allows the valve to open to the correct position, and off we go.

Seems I might be waving goodbye to some more hard earned cash after the bank busting cylinder head fiasco, don't ask!!!!.

Hope any one Googling Toyota spill valve might find this thread and this may be the same as they are experiencing, it may help them, cos we're all in this together.

Cheers Tired Old Toyota

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