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To sort out a pub discussion. Is London the only City that makes licensed Taxi?s take a "Knowledge" test?
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Not sure about that but usually it is stated that London has the toughest cab driving test in the world!
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I believe they no longer have to do it but a cabbie will come along with a difinitive answer.
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Most areas have their own version of the knowledge test for a Hackney licence. This can range from a simple interview with the local licensing officer to a proper 'sit down in exam conditions' written test. It is at the discretion of the relevant local authority, who are responsible for taxi licensing.
London used to be unique in that all taxi licensing was undertaken by the metropolitan police... however it has been brought into line with the rest of the country and is now the responsibility of the public carriage office, part of TFL. The 'knowledge', incidentally, is still alive and well, and I believe as hard as ever to pass. Having undertaken a similar test in Leeds many years ago, I certainly wouldn't fancy tackling the London one!!
In contrast, where I work now in rural Warwickshire, the 'knowledge test' part of my Hackney carriage license application comprised of simply asking me if I was familiar with the area!
Best wishes,
Neil
Edited by njgleeds on 07/02/2008 at 10:17
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According to a cabbie on London radio the other day, the AVERAGE study / prep time before taking the exam is a year and a half, and seven out of ten who start on it give up before they pass!
What always impresses me when I take a black cab in London is not so much that they know the streets and the best routes to get there - impressive enough when there are 25,000 of them - but they will usually ask what number in the street I am going to, and know which end of the street it is located.
Respect due.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 07/02/2008 at 12:06
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dont house numbers start at the city centre and go up as you move outwards with evens on your left and odds on your right?
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'The knowledge', which still prevails I believe, is incredibly tiresome and old-fashioned. I know because I have witnessed it in action, sat in on an exam (aspiring drivers have to take a lot of these, the number being unspecified, until they are felt to have passed) and talked to people doing it. It involves learning by rote some dozens or hundreds of standard routes across and around London, remembering the name of every street or road passed through, keeping up to date with new traffic schemes, and so on. Most of this is quite unnecessary for the job of taxi driving, and it is also the case that black cab drivers often don't know the best way from one place to another - London is very big and they may not know the area. But perhaps the knowledge serves to deter unserious minicab driving types and other undesirables. It's the cabbies' equivalent of true literacy in the traditional Chinese language, which takes decades to acquire. Anything like that will sort out sheep from goats, but one can't help feeling a measure of updating would do no harm.
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I used to often see these guys in mopeds with clipboards attached to the front driving round London , stopping at landmarks and mumbling to themselves .
I have a friend who has done the Knowledge and ISTR it took him around five years to get his licence.
I think it is still a worthwhile excercise to keep up standards in this day and age particularly when you see the state of some of the unlicensed cabs in London.
When I worked for a while as a motorcycle courier in London my street knowledge was good but I still needed to refer to the A to Z on occasion but if I was really lost ( quite rare ) I would pull up at the lights alongside a cab and ask the driver for directions.
It was very rare when they could not help.
Anybody remember the play 'The Knowledge' by Jack Rosenthal ? Good funny guide to getting the coveted cabbies licence.
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Well it took me about three years to do The Knowledge. As someone mentioned it involves working your way through a set book of runs (imaginary taxi fares approx 450ish) with the first one being Manor House to Gibson Square. You ride the 'run' taking the most direct route from point A to point B learning significant places on the way (hotels, police stations, clubs etc) That is the fun bit really, then you have to go home and learn that route off by heart. By the time you have covered this book of runs you have criss-crossed London. In the end you know London so well that you can mentally visualise a journey in your head! Then the exams, carried out verbally on a one-to-one basis, by the dreaded examiners at the PCO (a shiver has just gone down my spine!) The exam process is continual with quicker appointments the better you get.
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Personally, I put London cabbies on a par with brain surgeons for the amount of knowledge (sorry) that they have. They are, without doubt, the best taxi drivers that I have experienced in a fairly well travelled lifetime but hasn't the advent of sat nav devices rendered a lot of their training unnecessary?
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Ha! I laugh in the face of Sat Navs. Sure they work fine but they don't give the flexibility that a human brain gives, and of course there only as good as the information put in! Remember getting asked for directions by someone in a Sat Nav directed car, in my home town of Hertford, who said was he in HEREFORD - D'oh! Lots of time people are unsure of exactly where they are going, a few quick questions and I can get them on there way. besides, it was in the news a few days ago a cabbie vs a sat nav. cabbie 20 mins quicker to the destination (not allowed to use bus lanes etc)
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Sure they work fine but they don't give the flexibility that a human brain gives and of course there only as good as the information put in!
I agree. Local knowledge is also invaluable for "short cuts" and also avoiding congestion hot spots. For example it may be quicker to drive a mile further and avoid a certain stretch of road that a sat nav would send you merrily down. It also lets you avoid road works, temporary closures and other "dynamic" changes to a route that a sat nav wouldn't necessarily know about.
Cheers
DP
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To try to find your way around London with a satnav is absurd. A map and stopping will get you there quicker, if you know the basic layout of the Great Wen. As black cab drivers do perforce of course. I may have seemed to be dissing them in my earlier post, but I wasn't really. Old habits die hard. It's just that if you yourself really, really know the way, and the cabbie doesn't, there's sometimes a bit of friction. As I said, it's a very very big town, changing all the time, and no one knows all of it. But the knowledge is one sort of very good grounding, no kidding.
I'd forgotten the detail that aspiring cabbies have to know all the museums, tourist destinations, hotels, gentlemen's west end clubs, theatres, lapdancing venues and so on, and know where the back doors are, and where to do the startling u-turn to drop the punters a minute before they expect in a mood to be generous...
And as I said elsewhere, I learned a lot of rat runs by following them, and they're all right attitude-wise now that cabs have power steering and I have mellowed...
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Three years ago was the last time that I had to use a London Cab. We had to get to Heathrow for a flight, and intended to use the Circle line to connect to Piccadilly. Rush hour, of course, and the Circle system signals failed, bringing the line to a shuddering halt. Surfaced and found a cab and asked him to take us to Barons Court station. Much ducking and diving around the back streets, with the driver giving us a running commentary of why the diversions [ roadworks, traffic jams, etc.]. The resulting run was almost non-stop except for traffic lights, and pretty well as quick as the underground would have been. Most impressed, I was [ and tipped him accordingly ].
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Most impressed I was [ and tipped him accordingly ].
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Blimey! That's unusual for an Antipodean!
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Anyone know if Police drivers have to do anything similar? I know in a Met area car there are usually 3 PCs (driver, radio operator and navigator). Often all three are armed, too, which is a mind-boggling set of functions to juggle.
IIRC the "navigator" uses the good old A to Z rather than sat nav. Come to think of it, I wouldn't want to trust a life or death drive to an electronic gizmo myself.
An absolutely riveting 30 minute life-or-death police run with a transplant liver from Stansted airport to a central London hospital in a Rover 3500: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWj85kpWDk Way to go, guys!
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Anyone know if Police drivers have to do anything similar? I know in a Met area car there are usually 3 PCs (driver radio operator and navigator). Often all three IIRC the "navigator" uses the good old A to Z rather than sat nav.
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Met 'area' cars (fast response and pursuit vehicles) used to have three people in them (driver, operator & plain clothes observer), although this is now no longer the case, it stopped at the middle to end of the 80's. There is no 'knowledge' exam and satnavs are not issued generally, although there is a Mobile Data Terminal (a bit like an in-car satnav) which shows CAD (Computer Aided Despatch) and this has a limited map facility, which if you accept a call, will show you on the map, with a shaded area showing where you should be headed. It isn't always accurate though, so the map is still needed.
ARVs (Armed Response Vehicles) might well have 3 people in them, they are not 'area' cars.
The modern thinking is to have many police vehicles 'single crewed' so that the public think there are more of you about...in reality this is a poor idea because; being on your own can be de-motivating, provides no incentive to 'get stuck in' if you have to (no back up) and you can't read/operate the data terminal and drive at the same time..ho hum, progress.
Edited by Westpig on 10/02/2008 at 10:36
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An absolutely riveting 30 minute life-or-death police run with a transplant liver from Stansted airport to a central London hospital in a Rover 3500: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWj85kpWDk Way to go guys!
That's a great video, thanks!
It may be my age and you can say all you want about British Leyland but I still think the V8 SD1 is brilliant, especially with twin holleys and the old style instrument pod slung on top of the dash. Give me one of those anyday.
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Saw a beautifully kept one yesterday in Portmadoc in North Wales. It looked suspiciously like a Vitesse, it was on a B (1984) plate.
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> Saw a beautifully kept one yesterday in Portmadoc in North Wales. It looked suspiciously likea Vitesse it was on a B (1984) plate.
The other letters weren't "BPP" were they? I know that car
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That's a great video thanks!
that brought back some memories
the judicious use of the auto box manually wasn't necessarily a good thing. Some drivers would do that, but the gearboxes of cars of that era didn't really like it. SD1 brakes would go horribly spongy until eventually they all got Vitesse brakes fitted retrospectively. The traffic cars were V8s (twin blue lights), whereas the area cars were 2600s (one blue lamp), because allegedly an accountant decided they were cheaper... marvellous! (the 2600s were ok when on the move but sluggish 0-30, which is what they got mostly used for).
The bit where he went right through the middle of Hyde Park Corner is where i got an SD1 completely sideways, because the cavalry had been through and put down more sand than usual.
I can remember driving a late registered SD1 on an 'E' plate, (most of the last police ones were on a 'C' plate)....that had been metallic blue, but was re-sprayed white (but not in the engine bay) which was a VanDenPlas model. The metal electric sunroof switch was missing, which meant you couldn't open it...as was the VDP badge on the back...and the story went that Rover got rid of a few old ones when the 800 was new, but some member of the public moaned that the 'Old Bill' were getting VDPs... so off went the badge, leaving the glue mark still there! The electric windows, power steering and wood trim was nice though, as the usual ones didn't have power steering and were very heavy to steer at low speed.
I'm off to bore 'er indoors' with more SD1 stories...
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I spent too long in UK, and can't shake off all the behaviour patterns. They keep coming back to haunt me.
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I spent too long in UK and can't shake off all the behaviour patterns. They keep coming back to haunt me.
Do you mean that when you flash your lights to let someone in here in NZ, they just look at you with their mouth flapping open? I get that as well, but it is slowly improving. Here in Christchurch there seems to be a higher than average number of drivers with UK experience as the usual UK courtesies seem to be catching on. Still plenty of brain-dead NZ only drivers though.
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