I attached an extract from 4car's write up on the VAG DSG boxes and it suggests that these thing are bullet proof - what do we think - would you trust one - my BiL has one his A3 and I am concerned for him that IF it does go wrong it will be mega expensive to fix especially as a colleague at work just forked out nearly £3K to repair a 4 year old auto box on an A4 (40K miles) and Audi were not in the slightest bit interested in helping him out.
"Like the previous six-speed DSG gearbox, the new version has been sealed for life. Clutch plate wear is not an issue says Volkswagen, confident that well over a million development miles have ironed out any issues.
As well in-house testing, VW has stripped down gearboxes from real-world customer cars that have recorded as many as 200,000 miles and found wear well within the engineers' tolerances.
However, to ensure life-long reliability, the gearbox's ECU has been calibrated to forbid any potentially damaging gearchanges occurring - and even if you do happen to overheat the clutch, the 'box has been pre-programmed with a failsafe to prevent permanent damage.
This takes the form of a warning light, followed by a very small amount of clutch burning, the smell of which floods the cabin. Carry on with the abuse and the ECU will artificially mimic clutch slip, hinting at a mechanical catastrophe. If this isn't enough, as a last resort, the next time the car comes to a standstill, the drive is completely disengaged until temperatures return to normal.
To improve durability even further, the DSG-7 will not be fitted with any engines producing more than 180lb-ft of torque to prevent the clutch exceeding its operating temperature."
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 25/01/2008 at 18:11
|
|
Why Volkswagen in the title - similar boxes are being used by Ford, Mitsubishi, Bugatti and BMW?
|
Why Volkswagen in the title - similar boxes are being used by Ford, Mitsubishi, Bugatti and BMW?
Cos the article is about VW's version.
|
|
|
|
This takes the form of a warning light, followed by a very small amount of clutch burning, the smell of which floods the cabin.
I can't imagine their insurers or lawyers would allow anything like a deliberate release of any noxious fumes (which burning clutch must be to some extent) into a car cabin - even in the interests of gearbox/clutch life. Could you imagine the field day a litigation lawyer might have in describiing how his poor client was overcome by fumes & crashed the car! This sounds like urban myth to me.
|
I know nowt about them and haven't driven one, but reading the following:
"...the gearbox's ECU has been calibrated to forbid any potentially
damaging gearchanges occurring..."
"...the 'box has been pre-programmed with a failsafe to prevent permanent damage..."
"...the ECU will artificially mimic clutch slip hinting at a mechanical catastrophe..."
Makes me wonder, what if the gearbox ECU goes wrong? Does it go into limp home mode or could it start allowing "potentially damaging gearchanges"?
|
Sealed for life means disposable, and on a component of this value and complexity, that is a ludicrous state of affairs.
Even with the most thorough development and testing, it is likely that some cars will, over 100,000 miles + experience conditions that the manufacturer didn't foresee and test. IF you can't repair the component, this could prove unbelievably expensive.
In fairness, a lot of other manufacturers use similar setups.
Cheers
DP
|
|
|
They are not bullet proof.
At least the electrics connected to the box aren't, there are problems with all VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda group electronic control boxes. It's not a repairable part, a straight swop for a new one at a cost of thousands, at least two days in the shop and my SEAT dealer {when dealer is spelt correctly it doesn't trigger the swear filter} said it involved major work to get to the old box out and new one back in from beneath.
When it works the DSG is sublime, it works 99.999% of the time but when the gearbox stops talking to the engine, power and drive is lost, you just coast to the side of the road and curse.
Check out the VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda forums for more information.
My warranty runs out in March on my 2.0TDi DSG, I really like the car, I really like the gearbox and the possibility of a cheap dealer extended warranty is all that keeps me from swapping.
As a company car this box is a no brainer but as a private buyer.......beware.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 25/01/2008 at 21:05
|
Had a Passat 2.0TDI (140PS) with DSG on demo once.
After half an hour of fairly harsh driving (repeated launches) the 'box packed up and the AA got the good news. Symptoms just before failure were uncannily like the symptoms described in post #1!
Not foolproof. Not bulletproof.
|
I wonder how the DSG box copes with being a towcar of say a heavish caravan or boat. I can see the unit failing in such circumstances prematurely.
I wonder if it is "sealed for life" because it is too difficult to educate dealers on how to fix the complex innards...wonder if the auto box specialists are developing knowledge of DSG type gearboxes. Might be worth a call to the local one to see if they are seeing cases.
|
Nothing with a human in control is bullet proof.
Humans can and will test anything to destruction.
Anything humans can design, humans can destroy.
|
|
If VAG are so confident about the box, then presumeably they'll repair/replace it for an extebded period regardless of whether the car is under warranty or not?
|
|
|
|
Are the road versions supposed to stand up to 'repeated launches' whoopwhoop? I understood with DSG you could hold the car on the brake pedal and floor the accelerator, the engine would stabilize at peak torque, and you then let go to impressive effect.
Hardly the sort of stuff for the high street on Saturday afternoon, is it? Indeed I haven't even done the manual version to a car for years. Can't afford it.
|
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=56...5
control unit replaced at 40K miles - just under warranty!
EH
|
|
|
Are the road versions supposed to stand up to 'repeated launches' whoopwhoop? ... Hardly the sort of stuff for the high street on Saturday afternoon is it?
Didn't say they were, or that it was normal use. (hence the words "hard driving"). Was just stating that they are NOT indestructable, and that the electronics can't protect the box from hard driving.
PS This was a brand new car. I have trested many manual box cars in similar way and not one of them has gone pop, including some with 100k on the clock!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DSG 6 Speed on the Golf requires at 40k mile oil change service which down south costs £180 - £240.
|
|
|
If this isn't enough as a last resort the next time the car comes to a standstill the drive is completely disengaged until temperatures return to normal.
That'll make you Mr Popular at the traffic lights!
|
|
|
