Each time I fill up, now £60 for a standard 4 Door, the prices are still creeping up, now 102 is average for a litre.
Are we all complaisant, yes I see the odd post, but not a great deal. What happened to the very successful moves a couple of years ago.
Yes I know Crude has gone up, but the yanks still only pay $2.50 a gallon, and the £ is up on the $.
I surmise therefore we are all happy to just go along with it.
{Header changed to reflect the increase in diesel as well as petrol}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 09/12/2007 at 14:43
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I think people have got so lazy they would pay £XXX for Petrol to run them 1 mile up the road and back rather than walk.
On another note Funniest moment of this weekend - My wife having a Traffic light grand prix with a Prius -
Isn't this just the most ironic thing ever ?!
Edited by IanW1977 on 09/12/2007 at 11:25
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I have not lost interest -only gained the knowledge that there is nothing I can do about it. We all know most of the price is tax so its its political rather than the oil companies who make our fuel so expensive. In all important issues in this country my opinion and needs are of no importance -and neither are most folks. Even on minor local issues they ignore our views so nationally you may as well not bother--as several letters to my MP have shown. Sorry to be so defeatist but thats the way it is. Just had a trip to France and though they have a reputation for bolshiness I understand they actually pay more general tax than us!
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>>>>>I have not lost interest -only gained the knowledge that there is nothing I can do about it. We all know most of the price is tax so its its political rather than the oil companies who make our fuel so expensive.
I agree 100% Barney100.
The taxation on fuel is hyped up as a war against global warming but to patronise the motorist like that is just ridiculous.
Wait till they pile the duty on LPG, Bio-diesel etc. IF enough switch to 'cleaner' fuels they will dream up some other reason to fleece us for using those instead.
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I'm currently in the USA (Indianapolis) and the price here is $2.80 for a US Gallon. Most Americans appear to have accepted this as the norm now and it's not unusual for fuel to get up to $3.40, which is most I've paid in the last three months. The basic problem that America has is that a Pickup or SUV will turn in 17-18 US mpg (pretty good by our standards for a big petrol engine... that's like 22mpg from a Supercharged Range Rover), meanwhile a mid size saloon like I'm driving, around the size of a Vectra, will only do about 26 US mpg. I have to try very hard to get that last 2mpg above it's EPA average of 24mpg too. It's a 2.4 litre engine putting out just 160Hp, and it goes ok just liking a drink along the way.
The thing is though, when I get back to the UK this week, I'm not that bothered about the price being £1.02-£1.10 a litre. When I left it was 97p/litre and my car does 38mpg. So that means an increase in cost of 1.5p/mile. At 12k per year that's an increase of £180, or £15 a month. It's all money, yes, but it's not enough to make me stop driving. If we truly want to deter people from driving thirsty cars then we need to make some more painful increases in the price of fuel, not less. If nothing else it will encourage manufacturers to make more effort in fuel saving. At present, even if you drive a thirsty Range Rover doing 15mpg your cost only went up by just under £500 a year and what Range Rover driver is liable to miss that?
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The high price of fuel does not bother the drivers of thirsty cars very much, because they tend to be from the higher earnings bracket themselve. The people who are hit hardest are those on low fixed incomes, often in rural areas where life without a car is next to impossible.
As for manufacturers putting more effort into fuel economy, what do you think they have been doing for the last thirty years? Cars are considerably more fuel efficient now than back then. But we all know that the government relies on fuel duty, so if average fuel consumption halved overnoght they would simply double the tax on it.
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Agree with what you say - mostly. Fuel cost is the one aspect of motoring that you can actually control i.e. by reducing vehicle use. I live in a rural village (what used to be called the "country") and there is unnecessary vehicle use - a lot of it. The other hidden cost if high fuel prices is the cost of er...everything else - food, heating and everything needs to be transported by road. I have noticed of late both here and in rural Wales, where I was last week, that there is suddenly less traffic on the road. Guess some people are voting with their feet and making sensible decisions about car use.
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I would also prefer not to pay more and more for fuel. However. sadly, I suspect that high fuel prices will be the least of our economic worries in the next few years. If "GB PLC" existed would you buy shares in it ?
What we need is a radical re-positioning of our attitude to the economic cycle of our country and the European community. The sooner we all recognize the need to support our domestic businesses and those from countries with whom we have a balanced level of trade the better.
The "I'm backing Britain" ( remember the little flags ?") campaign of the '70s foundered on the apathy of the populace but the general attitude to purchase decisions it tried to promote needs to be re-awakened.
We British seem to have no loyalty to our local producers unlike many other nationalities who conciously try to buy locally manufactured or produced items. There seems to be a national failure to connect this with economic growth. If we lived in land of successful manufacturers and produce growers we would perhaps be less concerned about expensive fuel. We would in fact be able to afford it !
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I'm backing Britain had a few obvious flaws. To support it you would have had to spend a considerable proportion of your hard earned cash buying badly built and unreliable cars and motorcycles when there were better and cheaper models available from overseas manufacturers. Companies who had a gauranteed loyalty customer base would hardly have had the incentive to improve their products either.
Did you buy a Rover in the last ten years, shoespy?
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I bought a Rover in 1992 so outside the ten years. Yup, it broke so.......:-(
This attitude though need not be limited to major purchases, food, clothing etc are still ....just about... produced here or by our balanced trading partners. I would just like to see a an encouragement of the feeling that people should "want" to buy items which contribute to their own economy and that that was "a good thing". I am not in favour of legislation to command it, I just wish more people got the equation.
Anyway ...they won't so lets go back to cars !
I bought a Westfield in 1998 ..does that count ?! ;-)
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I sincerely hope that this doesn't get deleted or censored because it is fact.
< snip >
It may have been fact, but it had jack all to do with motoring, sorry.
Edited by PoloGirl on 09/12/2007 at 22:06
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Edited by PoloGirl on 09/12/2007 at 22:06
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snip
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/12/2007 at 23:15
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As for manufacturers putting more effort into fuel economy what do you think they have been doing for the last thirty years? Cars are considerably more fuel efficient now than back then. But we all know that the government relies on fuel duty so if average fuel consumption halved overnoght they would simply double the tax on it.
Agreed cars are considerably more fuel efficient now than they were, but at the end of the day it hasn't really gotten us anywhere because cars are massively heavier than they were. The benefits could have been so much greater if we were prepared to accept that driving is a risky business and we could have an accident. Instead rather than have people use individual judgement and caution, we have cars designed to crumple and protect everything, at the expense of hundreds of kilos of weight just in case one person does something silly in that model. On top of this when manufacturers dare to make a car that has a really long top gear for economical cruising like the 8-speed Lexus, what do we get back from the motoring press? Statements like "far too many gear changes are needed, why can't it have less gears" etc etc.
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I've no objection to safety aids, we can all stuff up or be the victim of someone else's mistake. But useless junk like electric windows, air conditioning and all the other comfort garbage I can do without lugging round with me. I want a car that's nice to drive, if I want to sit in pampered comfort I can do that at home on the sofa.
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No central locking, aircon or electric windows here. Just effectively a diesel tin box with seats and a roof that can get mid 70`s MPG if I stay under 60mph.
I think fuel would have to be £3 a litre before I started to think about it.
Now if I had that old Auto Maestro doing 23MPG I would be thinking about fuel prices now.
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Well a tankful in the bike costs £24 from empty and generally lasts two months...so no skin off my nose...yet.
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Crude prices have been steadily falling since the beginning of the month whilst petrol prices have been increasing.
Not sure I quite get that one.
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Crude prices have been steadily falling since the beginning of the month whilst petrol prices have been increasing. Not sure I quite get that one.
GREED.
MD
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I would say I'm a typical 'Mondeo' man in the eyes of the Blair era cronies and the reality is Monday morning I have to drive to work to earn my living.
Petrol has gone up 15p a litre here in the last 4 months but I still genuinely have no alternative method of getting to work. So what do I do? Protest? Thats futile and I still need to be at work 8am on Monday morning....So all I do is compensate for the extra expense by cutting back in other areas. Thanks Gordon for the 80% tax on fuel.
I can use my vote, and certainly will, but motorists are a massive cash cow in so many ways now that no government will reverse the 'take'
I remember the 'good old days' when fuel went up once a year on Budget day, not every week like now.....
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I was another who gulped when it cost £60 to fill the Golf in the week. For the first time ever, I'm starting to consider whether my journeys are really necessary. Unfortunately all the work journeys are necessary, but what happens when the 11p a mile I get for them, no longer covers what it costs me to do them?
That said, I think I'd rather get a different, less well paid job than even think about going to work on public transport!
Edited by PoloGirl on 09/12/2007 at 22:11
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Crude oil has to be shipped to a refinery and refined and shipped to filling stations. Takes 3-5 weeks. Hence a dealy in price increases and decreases.
Simple if you do some homework:-)
madf
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The point missed by many here is that with fuel at £1.03 a litre ( funny seeing filling stations that can't accommodate the extra digit , nobody obviously foresaw that fuel will rise over a pound / litre , so they just show .03 p , yes , we'll have a tankful of that )
and most of that being taxes , it's the exchequer that's benefitting , the kitty that pays for our wonderful public services , namely the police, NHS , education, fire brigade and the Army , inter alia .
With income tax being low at 22% starting rate, many people pay little tax , but at least they pay something, although many choose to duck n dive , work for cash or seriously underdeclare .
With fuel taxes being what they are , even the delete , cash builders , illegal - immigrant minicabs ( most of the fleet in London ) and dodgy East Europeans are contributing , they hate it , but at least they cannot AVOID this one . This is the crux of the matter ,everybody pays some tax and it's us that actually benefit in the long run.
I went to an NHS hospital recently to visit , and was amazed by the number of staff and amount of modern equipment . Who pays for all this ? smell the coffee , keep fuel prices up, maybe some unnecessary journeys are not now being made ..
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/12/2007 at 22:49
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Just been down and brimmed the Mondeo for the week ahead (it was very low)
£63.72 to the second click (@ 107.9ppl)
My back passage is still smarting.
But at 600 miles worth of use, that' still a fraction of the cost per mile of public transport, and the car has managed a better reliability record (i.e. perfect) over the 2 years I've been commuting 70 miles a day in it than the trains can typically manage in a week.
And the fuel price rises, bad as they are, are but a tiny part of the wider and far more serious increase in the general cost of living in the UK over the past couple of years. I cannot believe they can claim that inflation is at 2.7% when the real cost of living increase for most people in this country is five to ten times that.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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I should and must have a fuel card for my company car. Through various mess-ups I still do not have one after approaching two months! Apparently I cannot get the car without one but have done over 2200 miles.
Await the fuel card anyway which only pays for business miles. And instead of getting arounfd 14p per mile I declare personal miles effectively and pay the difference on fuel for business.... except business will be on motorways and personal stop-start. So not losing really am I?
My point though is the limit on pumps is something like £60 fuel. My (nearly typed Mundano) Mazda6 has a 64 litre tank!
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Re: previous public protests ....According to Petrolprices.com this morning something is afoot this Wednesday (12th), but they do not know what.
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Except the group organising "something" for the 12th have supposedly moved it to Saturday 15th as everyone who wants to protest is at work on Wednesday - real hardline protestors these lot. On Saturday all protestors will probably be Christmas shopping - why not wait until Janaury, it's always a boring month!!
If it were down to them women would still be without the vote, we'd have had no trade unions, kids would be up chimneys and we'd all still be paying poll tax.
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In reply to the original posting - Yes, I have. I also object to self-appointed 'champions of the people' stopping me going about my lawful business. Protest if you like but let the rest of us lead our lives.
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Quite agree Nick.
I have no choice but to self-fund my necessary 40-50k miles per year, so any variance of fuel price has a significant effect on my costs of doing business and in turn making a living. ( and I'm sorry guys, those of you who bleat about whether your mileage allowance or company car deal is sufficient to cover any increases need to get real ! )
However , anything which hinders or prevents my travel, costs me, and many others like me who are self employed, a lot more in lost business than the effect of a few pence on fuel.
Mob rule has little to commend it. It brought out the very worst behaviour in the public when our filling stations witnessed almost anarchic levels of conduct.
Flawed as it is, we have a system for registering our views. It involves a ballot paper.
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I support people who protest this week (if they do) the same as I supported them last time around. The British public rarely has the backbone to stand up to the Government and on the rare occasion that it does happen, then I'm perfectly prepared to put up with the inconvenience of queueing for fuel. Last time around, fuel got cheaper for a while, so good luck to them.
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To anyone who supports fuel blockades, send me your address and I'll come round and block your drive citing some aspect of government policy I disagree with as my reason for doing it. It amounts to the same thing.
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If you want to blockade anything , try your local Jobcentre or other Government Office.
I think the law has been changed and you'll find a nasty heavy fine...
madf
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