Is it not time that someone, somewhere did something about the spiralling cost of fuel?
Why don't we ALL boycott BP and Esso, who are in fact the same company now? Do this for 1 month and they would soon reduce the cost of a litre of fuel.
Any thoughts?
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BP and Esso (ExxonMobil) are not the same company.
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oh, i read in the times yesterday that they are. Oh well. Anyway , what do you think?
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Good thinking because where I live, I've got BP, Esso, Shell, Texaco within 2 miles radius and BP is always the most expensive one followed by Esso whereas Shell is usually the cheapest, more often than not cheaper than Tesco which is not far at all.
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It might be more truly effective, if boycotting or direct action is decided upon, to 'barricade' China, India & emerging high growth economies, since it's mainly the simple capitalistic principle of supply & demand that increases price - so, remove the demand.
Marginal market manipulation & cartel operation can have some effect, but only in the short term, the price is demand driven primarily. Mind you, if everyone stopped buying fuel, the price would drop (within the gross price - which doesn't include taxes) but would shoot up again the moment the boycott was over. So, zero sum game I think.
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spam? trolling? Or just misinformed?
Look at how much the government take from your £1 per litre, then look at how much the oil companies do for their 25p - get it out of the ground, pump it to a refinery, turn it into petrol, send it out to petrol stations....
Even if they were to cut costs by 25% (that's a real 25%, not like Allied Carpets 25%) you'd save 6p a litre. Shop around locally and you'd save that.
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Any thoughts?
LOL. The oil companies have the government, each other and us by the goolies. The government has us by the goolies. Whose goolies are most at risk in a struggle between the motorist and the powers that be?
Answers in one word please.
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Misinformed, or a Shell exec!
I agree with GarethJ 100%.
Much better to boycott the chancellor, or perhaps better the ex-chancellor, really think with this latest dontaion farce it is time to go to the country and let democracy happen, vote for the party that promises the motorist most.
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IMHO, fuel is actually quite cheap now - relative to the cost of other 'essentials'. I recall buying petrol at over £2 a gallon in the early 80s. If house prices had increased proportionally during the intervening years I might actually be able to afford one now......
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thats funny lol
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I never use BP as it's too expensive and they have silly pump colours (may have changed now but I sotpped using them when they did). I couldn't tell you where my nearest Esso station is, so by default I'm in!
Which reminds me that I'm doing a few hundred miles this weekend and over next week so I must fill up at the Shell garage on the way home.
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The government is the problem, not the fuel/oil companies.
The fuel duty component of a litre of fuel is about 50p (European average is 22.7p)
The VAT component is about 15p
Plus as world oil prices rise, the government gets significantly more tax from British based oil companies. This is what makes their refusal to reduce duty unacceptable in my opinion. Hospitals and schools won't suffer. You can knock a few pence off and still be quids in.
The oil companies really shouldn't be the target of your (IMO, legitimate) anger here.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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new to this what does IMO etc mean, and all the others?
TA
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IMO = in my opinion
IMHO = in my humble opinion
IMVHO = in my very humble opinion
You will find a plethora of very humble opinions here. Welcome (and wipe your feet).
:o}
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In My Opinion (sometimes In My Humble Opinion)
She Who Must Be Obeyed
I Seem To Recall
Laugh Out Loud
covers the most commonly used ones on here.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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new to this what does IMO etc mean and all the others?
Surely you already know, having used 'lol' just a few posts up?
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What only stun. He might be innocent you know. He only started three threads including the fuel one and buying two gas guzzlers.
Edited by rtj70 on 30/11/2007 at 18:54
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please boycott BP.
I'm fed up with the queues and would love to just drive onto an empty forecourt fill up, then walk straight up to the cashier - without waiting for the usual shoppers to buy their groceries.
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.. "oh, i read in the times yesterday that they are. "
You mean the Fibbing Times of Trolldedomlalalaland.
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Strikes me that when we are eventually favoured with the next general election, a sure fire winning gambit by any party would be to promise a reduction in fuel duty, a wee nod to a bit more cash for the NHS and a few income tax incentives. Lob in a road building programme and a few quid for education and they would sail to victory. How could this be funded ? Seize the assets and pension rights of all tailgaters of course !
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How could this be funded ? Seize the assets and pension rights of all tailgaters of course !
Yes, and allow our gun-hungry inner city youth the opportunity to pick off middle lane hoggers. For a fee, naturally.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
Edited by DP on 30/11/2007 at 15:55
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Duty and VAT are of course the main cost of fuel - as has been pointed out.
Boycotting one supplier is not going to make a difference really. They get a small part of the money. A local fuel station suffered when a bridge over a railway line was demolished and rebuilt (so no through traffic). A boycott would affect the fuel station most.
Now if everyone in the UK did not buy fuel for a month.... that would hurt the government. So who's up for that.
So the original poster is complaining about fuel cost, proposing a boycott and wanting to buy a BMW 645 and X5.... troll?
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The post is (innocently or not) repeating a spam/hoax/myth e-mail that's been circulating for years.
More at www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp
and
www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/chevronshell.html
The reason for the claim that BP and Esso are the same company is that they've simply replaced the names of Exxon and Mobil in the original (US) version of the e-mail. Of course, Exxon and Mobil are the same company.
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The post is (innocently or not) repeating a spam/hoax/myth e-mail that's been circulating for years.
Try your favourite search engine for the words "boycott BP and Esso" and all will be revealed.
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A result could be obtained with minimal effort and NO problems for we ordinary motorists if truckers or the other disaffected people barricaded the entrances to the Governement car pool, wherever that is London. Messing up fuel depots and causing a nationwide fuel shortage will not gain my support for their cause. As has been clearly pointed out above, the fuel companies aren't making much out of their sales; the big winner is the Government, give them some serious grief! The oil companies can't reduce the cost of oil but the Government control the taxes on fuel - they are the people to be put under pressure!
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IIRC IMVHO WDIK - there will never be any effective fuel protests for as long as there is a company car and company fuel card policy and mileage allowance in this country -- when everyone from Gordon Blown down has to buy their own car and fuel - then perhaps we might see a change in the taxation on fuel - as mentioned above it's not the oil companies that's ripping us off but the fat controller in the tower and the other grease balls surrounding him.
WDIK - what do I know
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Interesting point dxp55 - I do notice that in countries where "company" cars are less prevalent than here that fuel is cheaper. Maybe there is a connection, I had not thought of that before. What I do know is that in the days when I had a company car , I just used to order the fastest, most upmarket one they would give me and drive like a scalded witch. However , since I started my own business I have ( initially through necessity but now through choice ) taken a much more pragmatic and utilitarian view of my personal transport.
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Any thoughts?
Put yourself in the shoes of all the thousands of innocent BP and Esso (and BP and Esso fuel station) employees who have no influence on petrol prices but nevertheless whose jobs would be threatened.
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L\'escargot.
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Also a good point L'escargot. It needs to be remembered by all those on a payroll that many of the rest of us don't earn anything if we are prevented from travelling. Might concentrate a few minds if they had to forgoe a days' pay every time there was a road blockade or fuel was unavailable.
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I always think this is a pointless debate.
Unless you want to offer an alternative source of tax revenue or concrete details of where the government savings are going to come from then this is basically whinging.
Yes fuel is cheaper in France, big deal. Do you want French levels of taxation?
As for idiots trolling.....
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And anyway, why worry too much about fuel duty? It's just a form of taxation - if it was reduced then motorists (most of us) would save money but somewhere else in the economy, perhaps income tax, taxpayers (most of us) would have to pay more to compensate.
What political party is going to be honest enough to say we'll cut fuel duty and close a couple of hospitals to pay for it? And lets not get into a silly discussion about 'efficiency savings' or 'highly paid advisors'.
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Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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but what I don't get is ....
ok it's knocking on $100 for a barrel of oil, but at 2 dollars to the pound I don't think the price in sterling has gone up that much compared to a few years ago. The price at the pump is going up as if the value of the dollar hadn't fallen.
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to a few years ago. The price at the pump is going up as if the value of the dollar hadn't fallen.
In real terms it hasnt. The oil companies work in dollars (even bp and shell) for everything from finding the stuff to putting it in your tank. ONly at profit announcement time do they convert to £. and if there is no $ profit there is no £ profit.
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< Ulla>
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Not sure I follow that, AE. The oil companies' costs are in dollars, but those are set against revenues in sterling or euro. OK, it's converted into dollars for financial purposes, but while their dollar costs may now be higher, their dollar revenues from European sales are also higher.
It may be more accurate to say that the companies' accountants use a dollar rate that was set at the time they made their financial plans, so whatever the actual exchange rate now, what goes into their books (and can be declared as revenue and, ultimately, profit) is calculated at that older, less advantageous rate.
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either way its still cheap compared to the cost increase of oil. oil is 1.4 times dearer in a year, so our fuel should be 128p litre.
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< Ulla>
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I think everyone is still missing the point - The fuel tax is filling a huge big hole in the governments coffers due to shall we say an overburdening of the schools and welfare state - too many people are now taking out faster than the tax payer can replace it and motorist is a fine upstanding person to forever keep going into a garage and giving G Blown a lot of our hard earned to cover the governments ineptitude - a massive cutback on "projects" and assistance to those who come here for an easy ride would help a lot.
As regards needing a car etc to do your job -to my mind all company cars should be parked up at the company and the driver should do what rest of us have to and drive to work each day in your own car then we might see a bit of grumbling amongst the IAOKJ.
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A rant the Daily Mail would be proud of, DXP. Care to back it with some facts?
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" Altea Egoeither way its still cheap compared to the cost increase of oil. oil is 1.4 times dearer in a year, so our fuel should be 128p litre."
No, you are joking right?
The fuel is 25p a litre at the moment, so let's say the raw crude oil accounts for 12p of that, a doubling of oil price will see petrol go from 100p to 112p.
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Lets boycott BP and Mobil.
And their prices crash .
And buy from Shell and Texaco. etc. They do not have enough fuel.. so their prices rise..
Simple market economics..
Raw oil at $90 per barrel costs approx 27p per litre.
At $60 (mid 2007) it cost 18p per litre.
Increased cost 9p +VAT etc =12p
Fuel tax has risen 2p per litre.
All the rest is verbiage..
madf
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I agree with Altea Ego, the fuel is still cheap at the price. As long as people consider it's ok to take the car on a 1 mile trip to buy a newspaper, fuel is cheap. In your example a doubling in the price of crude would see price go up not by 12p but by 12 * 1.175 (VAT) = 14.1p anyway.
I drive a relatively high mileage of 12-15k per annum but I am still driving a 39mpg car not a 60mpg despite earning only around the national average wage. Price rises are the only way to encourage people to use less fuel, people simply don't want smaller cars, lighter cars, Smart Cars - they want their Mercedes and their X5.
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I agree too really. The cost of fuel isn't the problem as long as one isn't in the big-banger-for-commute trap. The problem is all the fines and carp taxes for driving about, parking and having the wrong cut to your jib by being a car owner at all.
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