In a bit more detail;
We change
Oil
OilFilter
Set the oil draining as soon as the car's on the ramp. Keeping oil filters for most modern cars in stock isn't too difficult. A box of assorted copper washers will do for the sump plug - or perhaps they suck the oil out.
The work of a couple of minutes - tops, and requires no special skill.
We fil
Coolant
Window washer fluid
Power steering fluid
Tyres to the correct pressure
So, you survey the engine bay, and top up anything that's a bit low. Again takes virtually no time, and no real skill. Checking tyre pressures - takes a minute or two, again, no special skill required.
We lubricate
Steering
Not sure what they mean here, but, as most cars don't need any special steering lubrication, this takes no time at all! (and an equal level of skill!)
We check
Air filter - the work of a minute or two
Brake fluid - already looked at as part of the fluid check - they might check the boiling point
Vehicle undercarriage - a quick swish round with a torch
All lights - probably checked as the car was driven in - a couple of strategically placed mirrors makes this the work of seconds
For engine bay leaks - another swish round with a torch
Wiper blades - again, the wipers can be checked as the car is driven in, and a detailled look at the blades is again, seconds of effort
Transmission fluid - check the level - a couple of minutes
Tyre condition - you look as you go round topping up the pressures, takes more time to write the results than it does to make the check
If you can keep a lane like this busy, then it's a good way to make money. £400 per hour, with 4 unqualified mechanics, a parts man and a shirt and tie wearer to pay out of it.
For this work - remember, there's no diagnostics, no fitting of parts, just servicing, it would be a waste to use qualified mechanics. The difference between people's judgement isn't avoided if you take a car to a normal garage - it might be serviced by slack Harry, or anal Andrew, you usually don't get to choose.
Not taking wheels off during minor services was usual practice in the chain of Vauxhall dealers where I worked. Althouh it's not ideal, it's not uncommon practice.
Although we car enthusiasts probably wouldn't take our cars there, I suspect they'll be a great success, and as a business model, perhaps it's good one. Cars have never been easier to service, because despite people's fear of electronics, they aren't touched during a service, there's no tricky points or carburettors to set up. In short, it's a job which doesn't take any great skill.
Now, finding and repairing a tricky fault, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. It takes time, money, equipment, skill, tenacity, and knowledge, and it offers poor returns - no wonder they have not included it in their business model. Effectively, like the tyre batterry and exhaust places, they have looked at the total job of car maintenance, and picked out the easy, quick, and lucrative parts. In their shoes, it's what I would do.
Number_Cruncher
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how long do they give to let the tyres cool down so that they can get an accurate tyre pressure reading?
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how long do they give to let the tyres cool down so that they can get an accurate tyre pressure reading?
>>>>>>>>>> the same amount of time it takes the man in the suit to say to 'YOU' get that thing out and dont come back.....................................ever. ;-)
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"Keeping oil filters for most modern cars in stock isn't too difficult. A box of assorted copper washers will do for the sump plug"
You are probably a bit out of date NC. Possible to keep an assortment of sealing washers in stock (very few are copper now though), but virtually impossible to keep a range of filters in that would cover more than 20 cars. Even main dealers struggle to keep all the filters for their marque! Fact!
"For this work - remember, there's no diagnostics, no fitting of parts, just servicing, it would be a waste to use qualified mechani"cs. The difference between people's judgement isn't avoided if you take a car to a normal garage - it might be serviced by slack Harry, or anal Andrew, you usually don't get to choose.
Not taking wheels off during minor services was usual practice in the chain of Vauxhall dealers where I worked. Althouh it's not ideal, it's not uncommon practice."
And if you consider this to be a model business and good for the motorist then you are under estimating what 99% of garages (independant and main dealer) do.
Compare it to a fast fit place where they tell you they are changing oil and filter by all means; but don't compare it to a service! All it is, is a quick check (what every motorist should be checking monthly at the very least) and an oil and filter change!
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Err I don't really get it, I paid £80 for an oil change, new filter, new airfilter (no new plugs), fitting of heater control valve, adjustment to rear brakes and a general quick check. All the tanks were topped up too which is something I said he didn't need to bother with as I would do it myself.
Many fast fit centres will do an oil change and filter for £30 though I wouldn't trust them.
I would trust these places personaly.
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>>(currently a special offer of a full service for £79). >>
I had my Mondeo serviced the other day at the Ford dealer for £99, while I waited (well went shopping), 2 hours, a offer that applies to 3 year old cars and older though it was a full service, wheels off etc, inc air filter, it was only a fuel filter and polen filter away from a major service though they did the later FOC because when I enquired I was told it was included and they honoured that.
To cap it all it included a £25 M&S voucher which arrived in the post with Ford's compliments about 5 days later so netted to £74.
Still FFSH, a no brainer!
Edited by cheddar on 20/11/2007 at 19:33
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On their website it states that they can do an Xpress MOT in 30 minutes for £49.
An MOT in 30 minutes? How can this be possible when the car has to be logged into the VOSA computer for at least 40minutes?
Questions need to be asked!
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An MOT in 30 minutes? How can this be possible when the car has to be logged into the VOSA computer for at least 40minutes?
>
That's a myth.
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>>You are probably a bit out of date NC.
Blissfully!, but cars and servicing haven't changed that much!
>>Even main dealers struggle to keep all the filters for their marque! Fact!
The incompetent ones always have struggled! It's not beyond the wit of a good partsman - it can't be - there aren't an infinite number of part numbers required to cover a reasonable range.
>>And if you consider this to be a model business
Yes, it will make money - in the purely business sense it's at least good, if not excellent
>>and good for the motorist
I didn't say that, and here's where we are in complete agreement, it's not great for the motorist, but if you aren't too bothered about your car, it's possibly not a bad option.
>>then you are under estimating what 99% of garages (independant and main dealer) do.
No, I'm not. However, that's precisely my point - they have taken one of the quickest, most lucrative offerings, and packaged it up to appeal to the type of customer who services their car as a distress purchase, rather than as a considered part of their motoring - i.e., it's probably not aimed at the sort of person who looks in here regularly, who has read their owners manual, understands their car's service schedule; these types either uses the dealer, or have sought out a good independent.
>>but don't compare it to a service!
It **is** a service - just like you would get at a dealer. Not a major service, with plugs, air filter, fuel filter, wheels and drums off, etc but a basic lube service isn't far off this spec. For Vauxhalls, this was the 9, 27, 45, etc, etc service, with the big ones at 18, 36, 54, etc, etc. Since I've been out of the trade, I know that services have fewer aspects*, and involve less time (I might not work there any more, but I have kept in touch)
* For one example, there's no need to warm the car up to set the CO anymore, because since closed loop systems became compulsory, it's no longer adjustable - hence you don't service it anymore.
Number_Cruncher
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Sorry to disagree then.
It does not remotely compare to a minor service for any recent (1990 onwards) vauxhall or any other car that I know of either, let alone a "major" service! Check list alone is probably 2 to 3 pages! And wheels dont come of for a service? How on earth do they manage to measure the disc wear to advise that they need changing !
And I repeat my comment about filters. I will let another trade person confirm this rather than argue back and forwards. Just as a point of supporting info though, my local motor factor regularly (most days) supplies filters, and other parts, to Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen dealers in town. They are not all incompetent I am sure!
Agree loosely with comment about time for Mot too; although there is no minimum time that must be taken, the Vosa men do keep an eye out for any station getting through too many tests too regularly. Fact!
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OK, the small service time allowance for our 53 Astra 1.6 is 1.1 hours (higher up when I said 0.5 hours, I had mis-remembered, it was actually 0.9 hours). So, getting 4 mechanics to do it in 15 minutes isn't acheiving the impossible.
>>And wheels dont come of for a service?
Typically not for a small service. - It's not how you would do. It isn't how I do it now, but that is how it *can* be done, without going against the service schedule.
>>How on earth do they manage to measure the disc wear
You measure from inside the wheel, using a micrometer - usually, you don't need the wheel off to get in.
Number_Cruncher
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 20/11/2007 at 20:07
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I've just reviewed the current Vauxhall service schedule. The basic service is almost as per this garage's list. The only major thing on Vauxhall's list that isn't offered by this firm is the road test. There are a couple of trivial items, like checking the battery terminals and looking at the green ball battery hydrometer.
All of the other jobs, wheels off, drums off, change brake fluid, change diesel fuel filter, adjust valve clearances, adjust clutch pedal, change key remote batteries etc, are either not needed until a major service, or are extra items, for which an extra labour time is chargeable beyond the cost of either the major or minor service.
Number_Cruncher
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Just a few "trivial" checks off my vauxhall list that would take most of the time allowed by them without the rest of the service!
Fault code check
ABS system operation, only after roller brake check
Cooling system pressure test
Wheel bolt tightness
Air con system check (if fitted )
Seat belt operation
Locks and hinges check and lube
Road Test (15 mins minimum?)
I could go on!
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>>my vauxhall list
Your list might be different to mine - although my list is from Opel themselves, rather than being provided by an intermediary like Autodata. Where's your list from?
Fault code check - not on the Opel list
ABS system operation, only after roller brake check - part of the road test, as mentioned in my post
Cooling system pressure test - not on the Opel list [the logic for this is that if the vehicle has lost significant coolant, this should be reported to the customer, and follow up work agreed - if it hasn't lost significant coolant, you don't need to do a pressure test, because de facto, there's no leak]
Wheel bolt tightness - yes, that's on my list too, but not on the in 'n out list
Air con system check (if fitted ) - part of the road test, as mentioned in my post
Seat belt operation - trivial to check as you lube the doors up
Locks and hinges check and lube - that's included on the in 'n out service list, and the Opel service list
Road Test (15 mins minimum?) - yes, I mention that the road test is among the most obvious omissions from their list
Number_Cruncher
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>>how long do they give to let the tyres cool down so that they can get an accurate
>>tyre pressure reading?
I would guess about the same length of time that the general public wait when they pull into a fuel station to check their tyres with the 20p air machine.
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