Hi- having recently downgraded to a Y reg Focus 2.0 (128bhp) estate for financial and practical reasons, I was wondering if anyone had tried one of the (reputable) chipping/remapping options available for this engine eg. the Superchips plug-in Bluefin device:
www.mybluefin.co.uk/bluefin.php
which is £300 and offers an extra 13bhp and 12lb/ft.
I'm particularly interested in whether the car just becomes (a bit) quicker, or is it nicer to drive as well - although the Focus's handling is as good as I expected, but the enigne isn't. It feels less 'eager' than our 1.0 Yaris, although obviously it's ultimately faster; perhaps it just needs a bit of getting used to. (And the car has a service book full of Ford service history so I'm assuming there's nothing actually wrong with the engine.)
Cheers
John
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 00:50
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Sorry no direct experience with that model, but its my belief that re-chipping only brings appreciable performance/economy gains on turbo charged cars.
At 300 quid for a "possible" 12 bhp I wouldnt bother.
All cars react differently to tuning and this assumes that
A) Your car is currently running well and B) Putting out 128 bhp manufacturers figure (not always likely) and C) Wether your car's engine cylinder head has been cast and machined well.
It'll cost you 80 quid for a before/after rolling road session.
Just my thoughts
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At 300 quid for a "possible" 12 bhp I wouldnt bother.
I know the performance gains aren't massive, but I'm more interested in the driving characteristics. Anyway, 13bhp = 10% = approx a second off a 10 second 0-60? Not too bad (if true).
All cars react differently to tuning and this assumes that B) Putting out 128 bhp manufacturers figure (not always likely)
But the relative increase will still be approx the same, won't it?
C) Wether your car's engine cylinder head has been cast and machined well.
You mean you might not get the 13bhp because something might break?
It'll cost you 80 quid for a before/after rolling road session.
...if I want to know the actual figure? I think I would only bother with that if it didn't feel like there was much change (ie. even less than 10%), and if that was the case, I'd get my money back under the 7 day refund.
Just my thoughts
And they're appreciated- thanks.
I'm only toying with the idea, it'll probably never happen- much more important things to spend our money on (I'm told) :-)
John
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> Anyway, 13bhp = 10% = approx a second off a 10 second 0-60? Not too bad (if true).
Not true. No way will the "extra" 13bhp buy you another second off the 0-60 times. If you pushed that theory to its limit a 260bhp car would do 0-60 in less than a microsecond.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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If you pushed that theory to its limit a 260bhp car would do 0-60 in less than a microsecond.
If you take a small part of a curve, you can approximate it to a straight line. For the relatively small changes involved here (and there's no extra weight involved), I would have thought that the % change in 0-60 isn't going to be far off the % change in power? (But just to repeat, I'm not that interested in the power increase.)
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It feels less 'eager' than our 1.0 Yaris
"Feeling" doesn't necessarily agree with measured fact. In the 1960's my employer did a test which entailed merely varying the strength of the accelerator pedal return spring on a single car. Most drivers said that when a stronger spring was fitted the car was more sprightly. They weren't told what modification had been done or whether in fact any modification at all had been done between their first drive and their second drive of the test car.
0-60 in a 2.0 Focus is about 10 seconds compared to 16 seconds in a 1.0 Yaris!
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Your Focus does not have 128bhp - only Parkers appears to think it has that little power. Although its officially rated as 130bhp by Ford against 136bhp for the earlier 93-98 Silvertop Zetec, it's generally accepted that the power output of the two does not really differ and most Blacktop 2 litre Zetec engines have about 135bhp.
I had my completely standard 2.0 Mondeo Rolling Roaded and it came back at 140.9bhp. I would be suprised if your Focus is far short of this figure. 0-60 in a 2 litre Focus (Not sure about the Estate) is about 9.something seconds, which is not bad anyway, especially when you consider it's actually a bit quicker than that time would suggest as the 0-60 time is hampered by a requirement for third gear to get 60mph.
Edited by MichaelR on 06/11/2007 at 08:48
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it's generally accepted that the power output of the two does not really differ and most Blacktop 2 litre Zetec engines have about 135bhp.
That's good to know, but it doesn't change the way it feels to drive.
BTW Paramount Performance do a remap for £350 which includes before and after rolling roads, and claim 'around 15bhp and 25nm' (email reply).
www.paramount-performance.com/acatalog/Paramount_P...l
John
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>> it's generally accepted that the power output of the two does not >> really differ and most Blacktop 2 litre Zetec engines have about 135bhp. That's good to know but it doesn't change the way it feels to drive.
15bhp won't make any real difference. If you want to go faster, get a car with some power. Otherwise, put up with your Focus. What about a Mondeo V6 Estate?
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SNIPQUOTE again!15bhp won't make any real difference.
No, but sometimes I believe it's claimed that remaps change the driving characteristics, not just the power, and that's what I'm looking for. Perhaps that's only for turbo diesels.
Like I said, the Yaris is slower, but responds better. I want the Focus to respond better- any increase in power/torque is a bonus.
John
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 10:13
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Your Focus does not have 128bhp ....... Although its officially rated as 130bhp by Ford ............
According to the Ford catalogue of that era it has 130 PS, 96 kW.
Without going to extremes of accuracy, 130 PS = 128.2 bhp, 96 kW = 128.7 bhp. Since Ford's figures of 130 PS and 96 kW don't exactly match (130 PS actually equals 95.6 kW) even they don't think it's worth being pedantic about!
See tinyurl.com/2fw7op for conversion factors.
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SNIPQUOTE!0-60 in a 2.0 Focus is about 10 seconds compared to 16 seconds in a 1.0 Yaris!
Yes, I know the Focus is faster, but it's less responsive, and it's not just to do with having to press the accelerator down harder. It's difficult to explain- it just doesn't feel 'sporty', which is what I was hoping for, and what I thought a remap might be able to change without necessarily increasing the power by large amounts.
And BTW I thought the mk 1 Yaris was about 13s 0-60?
John
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 10:12
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And BTW I thought the mk 1 Yaris was about 13s 0-60?
Not according to What Car? magazine.
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From personal experience, chipping my golf GTi turbo made a monumental difference, from 150BHP to 190. Torque & throttle response were much better, cost me £350, and took about 1.5 seconds off 0-60. It works mainly by increasing boost pressure but also by sacrificing emmisions a bit. In a non-turbo engine it has far less scope & I doubt it would be worth it. I could get my 2.5 Boxster done for £500 with a claimed 12-15BHP increase but it just doesn't seem worth it. As others have suggested, ultimately you are wasting money trying to modify a car like this - have you looked at the price of V6 Mondeos or even maybe a Seat / Skoda 1.8T (chippable to 210BHP)? You may be able to swap for a bit more than the £350 you already have.
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SNIPQUOTE! once MORE
Not according to What Car? magazine.
Ah, found it- Parkers quote 13.6.
www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Data.aspx?model=920
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 10:13
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Ah found it- Parkers quote 13.6. www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Data.aspx?model=920
OK, so you chose Parkers as your source of information and I chose What Car?. Since it's a measured parameter rather than a scientific fact they could both be wrong.
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I'm not trying to argue about which is right, just checking my memory, which might be poor in other areas but I thought was ok for trivial car data :-)
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Ah it's so re-assuring to see that the OP's question has been answered by loads of petty squabbling about the miniscule details. :-)
Try asking at www.ffoc.co.uk
There's a lot of guys over there running Bluefin and they may be able to give you some advice on what a difference it does or doesn't make in your particular car.
From what I've heard the petrol Foci become a little better to drive after Bluefin, but it doesn't really increase power all that much.
Blue
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loads of petty squabbling about the miniscule details. :-)
You mean discussion :-) (my fault)
Thanks for the link- yes, I should have thought of it myself.
John
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Ah yes, that'll teach me to take a longer look before I leap, I didn't notice that it was you that had instigated it! :-)
Blue
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I was once waiting in the reception at a well known tuning box company having my Picasso HDi upped from 90 to 110 bhp. A gent came in and asked what sort of power gain he could get from his BMW 330 with a box. The engineer smiled and said at least 50 bhp more and masses more torque. Turns out the 330 was petrol and not diesel. The engineer said he'd be lucky to see any measurable power increase but fitting the tuning box would definitely smooth out lumps in the power curve and the restrictions in the fuelling and he'd notice a much improved throttle response. I reckon the gent figured there weren't that many lumps in the curve and not much wrong with the throttle to merit a £500 fix.
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Superchips may still offer a 7 day trial - they certainly used to.
Perhaps that would help you?
Cheers,
Chips.
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£500 for the BMW seems poor value- I would imagine there's a lot more work involved smoothing out a Ford 4 cyl than a BMW 6 cyl :-)
Yes, Superchips still do the 7 day trial, and that would be reassuring should I ever go ahead with it (which is probably unlikely).
Cheers
John
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A Remap on an M54B30 (3 litre engine in 530i and 330i) will increase power from 231bhp to 250bhp.
I was half tempted but then I realised it was only for pub kudos so didnt bother.
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