Today's radio news says plans are on way to allow hard shoulder as a driving lane on some of the motorways (eg. M1, M6, M42 etc.).
However, many wonder where do you stop then for emergency!
By the way, we already use a good part of M1 hard shoulder between J6 & J10. Usually these areas are covered by Free Recovery Service.
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Don't be fooled into thinking this will be anytime soon, and that it will be without pain before it happens. They spent months (years?) upgrading the M42 with new emergency refuges and overhead gantries with cameras and variable speed limits ebfore they started the trial - the same will have to happen on other stretches of m-ways where the use of the HS is proposed at peak times. Oh, and then there's the cost... plenty of camers required to recoup that!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I thought this, to me, crack pot idea had been undergoing trials on one or more motorways?
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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It will be great until there's an accident when sooner or later, someone will die as a result of it.
This will either be because the emergency services cannot reach them in time (as happens a couple of times a year on the A34 between Oxford and Newbury), or because a car travelling on the hard shoulder hits a broken down one, or more likely someone changing a wheel.
Widen the roads. That's what we pay £40bn a year in motoring taxes for.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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The idea is that the road is monitored electronically by sensors and by cameras, so if someone stops or has an accident the overhead signs will tell drivers the HS is now closed and they should theoretically move to the right. to empty the HS for the emegency vehicles. However I can see that if all 4 lanes are chocker block, moving to the right is not going to be very easy.
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>>That's what we pay £40bn a year in motoring taxes for.
Blimey, DP, that notion went by the wayside many moons ago!!
Winston Churchill, I believe, (when Chancellor of the Exchequer) first came up with the wizzard wheeze of siphoning off some of the 'road fund licence' monies for the greater good of the country.
A sort of motoring equivalent of Gallipoli :-(
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That all road taxes raised should be spent on the roads is a misconception, annoying though it proves.
Governments set an annual spending agenda and then raise the taxes in whichever way they can - in the case of Gordon Brown a large amount has been raised by stealth taxes.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Spend the 40 million in motor taxes on the road? wish they did, I heard only a fraction goes on the road the rest into the general coffers.
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Sounds like a good idea, but at what cost £££
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Given the amount of debris left lying on the hard shoulder, I can see people getting punctures on a more regular basis. If there's no hard shoulder as such for them to park on while waiting for the breakdown service / highway agency, where do they park up and wait without fear of being run into?
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I saw an article on the BBC news this a.m. about it. Cameras monitor congestion, and on gantries an "X" in the "hard shoulder lane" will be replaced by an indication (speed limit) that it's available for use.
Presumably new laws will have to be made, or existing ones amended (not to mention the HC.
What if there's an obstruction on the hard shoulder when it's opened for use?
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the m38? has these from the m1 TO BERMINHARM theres a million cameras either side and lots of break down laybys,ive been on this section many many times as a passenger but would not be totally happy as a driver in rush hour
The thing is most drivers are morons anyway so we need proper motorway edmucation before we lose our 1/2 safe haven in the debris of the hard shoulder
Edited by bell boy on 25/10/2007 at 14:08
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In some developing countries, people travel on top of bus/train as the buses/trains are often packed inside like sardines and some people can't afford buying ticket.
However, those acts are actually illegal there and sometimes they are caught by police.
Looks like, UK government will one day encourage these practices!!
The govt. is simply cutting corners. HS can be used as a temporary measure, but I'm really worried how they can treat this as another lane instead of actually widening the motorway!
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Well, all I can say is having used the M42 for the past 6 months with this system running for most of that time, is bring it on.
Travelling on the M42 is possibly the least stressful way of travelling - traffic keeps moving at a steady pace, there isn't vast amounts of lane dodging and all in all makes commuting relatively enjoyable.
If there is an obstruction on the hard shoulder, said lane is quickly closed. Its not the lack of a hard shoulder that will stop the emergency services getting through, its the inconsiderate drivers who do not leave space to move their vehicles should an emergency vehicle need to get through. The alternative is to bring the emergency vehicles onto the motorway up from the accident and drive the wrong way. Its not difficult for Highways Agency to stop the traffic to do this if needed????
Lets have some progress - and lets not forget the environmental cost of building extra lanes (I'm no greenie, but working in construction makes you aware that everything has an environmental cost, as well as lengthy timescales....)
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I agree with PhilDews. When I've used the M42 with the hard shoulder in use it has been fine.
FoE were moaning that it would encourage traffic and increase emmissions. But the traffic will be moving, and so emitting less anyway.
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As a regular user of the M42 I can only say that it works fine.
The only downsides are that sometimes the speed restrictions are on for too long and those that suddenly brake from 80/90 in the outside lane when the speed restrictions are not on thinking that the cameras will get them.
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I've also used the M42 with this in action - for most of the journey the hard shoulder became an extended slip road for the junctions. Very few drivers were using it as you have to move from the lane if not exiting at the junction. There are refuge areas at regular intervals if you do suffer a breakdown.
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Interesting that, like on BBC 5 Live this morning, there is so much positive comment from those actually using the current M42 "proof of concept" model.
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If you´re the manager of a certain well-known Premiership team, then the hard shoulder has been your own private lane for a number of years now - assuming that you have an (in)convenient tummy upset ;-)
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I can see that those of you who use the M42 do not see a problem. I have two concerns. Firstly, the hard shoulder is considered to be one of the most dangerous places to be and I cannot see how this improves the situation - will those dozy drivers who wipe out cars on the hard shoulder now just disappear or will we have more recoveries of vehicles off road, down/up embankments etc.?
Secondly, when we had a blow out several years ago while overtaking a line of lorries, husband managed to get us across the inside lane and onto the hard shoulder. Very hairy and I cannot imagine what would have happened if one had had to 'find' a designated layby.
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The Autobhans around Munich have been modified to provide for driving on the hard shoulder at peak times with gantry indicators and periodic notification siigns at the roadside. Seems to work quite well but required significant expense to install. The costs included installing the electroncis and also providing emergency lay bys in case of breakdowns. The latter are, however, being used by truckers to park up in and there is a story in today's paper of a car running into the back of a parked lorry so it isn't a perfect solution.
BIG
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The M42 hard shoulder running only works because of the financial investment in it. The signalling and monitoring systems are much more comprehensive than normal motorways so that accidents and breakdowns can be responded to immediately and lane usage set appropriately.
If other motorways are "widened" without similar financial investment in systems, then there will be fatal accidents.
With this financial investment it'll be cheaper, therefore more likely, than full widening.
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IIRC the M42 system only works when the motorway is operating under a reduced maximum speed limit - i.e at busy times when the speed cameras may or may not be in operation.
When I have used it the limit has varied between 40 and 50 mph. I admit I've only been on the M42 a few times since the system came into operation (I'll be on it again this time next week), but the hard shoulder has never been used for traffic when NSL is in operation.
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Thats correct - the system only works when the 40/50/60 limits are in operation. It means that traffic is all running at very similar speeds, so less likely to cause an accident!
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I use the M42 a couple of times a month and it can be very confusing......
When not running it is not allways clear where the hard shoulder ends and the sliproads begin!
There is no hard shoulder at the M42/M40 junction going south at all - 2 lanes motorway, 2 lanes sliproad - whether the system is on or off.
What is granny going to do tomorrow having heard on the news that you can drive on the hard shoulder on the M42 but when she gets there all the signs are blank (to those in the know that means the system is off and you can't) but she does not use the motorways very often and has not been on the M42 before. . . . . . . You can just imagine her words to the policeman - the man on the BBC news said I could officer!
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I agree you have to make allowances for the "grannies" anywhere on the road system.
I would hope most people realise that normal motorway rules apply unless the signs say different.
Having said that I have lost count of the vehicles i have seen pass under red lane closed signs on motorways. (They must be too important for law to apply.)
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The old granny will do the same as she did yesterday when it was still possible.
It's not confusing at all.
The signs are obvious.
I've never seen anyone get it wrong.
Not heard of it causing a single accident.
I understand that it has significantly reduced accidents on the section it is on.
The quicker it is started on other motorways the better.
Edited by hxj on 26/10/2007 at 17:22
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