more attention spent on compliance with limit and less on surroundings hence impact speed higher as they are more distracted; less attention by pedestrians as they feel 'safer' as they think 20 mph won't hurt;
My personal observation is that at present 20 mph zones has following features!
- cars are carelessly parked (can't say illegally).
- people appear from nowhere (as they feel safer, fully agreed with above post)
- there are speed humps (can't drive over 20 mph anyway)
- most of these roads are narrow, and with cars parked idiotically, chances of getting a scrape in office hours is very high.
While commuting to work, I had to pass 3/4 such roads if adopt shortest route.
However, because of the above irritations, I go via 30-40 mph routes in spite of lengthier routes.
PS: There is one road in Luton, where there is a speed camera in 20 mph zone! It's placed at the junction where 20 mph becomes 30 mph. Anyone who doesn't know this will speed up and will get caught!
Edited by movilogo on 16/10/2007 at 14:49
|
I have heard said, though not written explicitly, that the target of this is to *halve* the number of road deaths by 2010. I can't see that being realistic.
There are a couple of (non-school-frontage) 20 limit roads near my home. Thankfully they don't have cameras on them: Have any of you actually tried to utterly obey a 20 mph limit? It's not easy. Requires quite a bit of concentration, and I'm dubious as to how accurate a speedometer is when operating so low on its scale.
As with those signs you get on industrial estates which post a limit of 15, or 10, or even 5 mph, my experience on these local 20 mph roads is that yes, people do slow down and take more care - a bit - but virtually no-one gets right down to 20 or below.
On a 250 yard stretch outside a school, fine: put a 20mph camera on the start of the stretch and the end of it, to force people down to 20 or get nicked. But I also heard they're wanting to use average-speed cameras to police this idea if rolled-out to all existing built-up 30 zones. I can see that being a red-rag to the local teenager-with-a-drainpipe-exhaust brigade, who even now like nothing more than to noisily floor it then B R A K E in between all the existing speed humps, thus maximising the nuisance to the residents of the roadside houses.
Oooh, that just reminds me (slightly off this topic) - on just one journey through a nearby town centre this last Saturday I saw 3 or was it 4 cars of the chavved-up Impreza/BMW/Lexus IS200 brigade driving with no numberplate on the front bumper, but instead stuffed at a jaunty angle atop the dash at the base of the windscreen (and thus unreadable on approach). Bit of a coincidence. Is this some new dodge? "Ah yes officer, jus fell off 5 minute ago when I ad a likkle parkin shunt, innit."
|
On a 250 yard stretch outside a school fine: put a 20mph camera on the start of the stretch and the end of it to force people down to 20 or get nicked. But I also heard they're wanting to use average-speed cameras to police this idea if rolled-out to all existing built-up 30 zones.
wouldn't mind 20mph outside a school, when ther kids are about.......but do mind...greatly.. when it's the school holidays or in the middle of the night
guess when the enforcement would be a lot of the time? nice sunny Sat morning?
|
The use of 20mph zones in carefully chosen areas would make sense - like town and city centres where there are lots of pedestrians, or outside schools during arrival and finish times, or in residential cul-de sacs, crescents etc. within which nobody can travel very far anyway.
However 30 mph seems about right as the general limit for built-up areas - if only more people would obey them!
|
I've never bought into this 'gradual erosion of civil liberties' gripe in relation to driving on the roads. The freedom to travel might be civil liberty but driving a motor vehicle on a highway is not, and never has been. It's something we are permitted to do by licence only if we satisfy the authorities through passing a driving test that we are capable of driving safely.
|
|
|
In Berkshire where my daughter goes to school there is a 40mph limit right outside it. But when the school is opening and closing there are such queues around it the average speed is about 1mph!
Bring back the man with the red flag walking in front of a car
|
"Have any of you actually tried to utterly obey a 20 mph limit? It's not easy. "
No more difficult than observing, 30,40, 50 or 60. Choosing the correct gear is the key to it.
|
Too many people appear blissfully unaware that a car can also be a lethal weapon, no matter how skilled the driver. No matter how you look at it, a collision with a pedestrian at 20mph is orders of magnitude safer than 30mph.
In an urban area you will ALWAYS get people, particularly children, stepping into the road. Even if you have the awareness of a hawk, if a kid runs out between parked cars in a narrow street directly in front of you, you will hit them. I'd much rather be inconvenienced for a few minutes than have the death of a child on my shoulders, even if it wasn't my fault.
As to the enforcement... well, it's SPECS so it can't be argued that the cameras are positioned inappropriately, nor can it really be argued that it's safe to exceed the limit in built up areas. So I say throw the book at speeders in this scenario, and with any luck we might see a reduction in the number of GATSOs elsewhere.
|
what a lot of nonsense
bad science
and bad politics
we would be better off with a NZ style system where there are only 2 speed limits, 50 or 100 kph, and its easy to tell which one it is, and the emphasis is on the skill needed to drive appropriately to the conditions, instead of the mass of road furniture telling us how fast to go and how many cameras there are and other mostly counter productive guff which does not help you drive more safely
thinning roads down, and reducing the speed limits ever further is going too far, we already have dual carriageways which were for years 70 limits now showing 40 or 30 signs, as if mysteriously the have suddenly become unsafe at 70
come on most high miles driver have speed camera detectors of one kind or another, who we kidding with more rules and cameras?
now if they put some good old fashioned cops back on the roads who went after the folk genuinely driving dangerously, ie one inch braking distance etc, then we would be going in the right direction
if they actually gave people more points for pulling in front of a motorcycle and killing the rider than doing a few mph over the limit on an empty motorway
its clear the association of british drivers is closest to reality
if only we could wipe out the islington chattering classes dominating all out political parties people may actually vote, and some of this may get resolved
|
It's what happens when you elect morons to government.
We have 20mph limits on all local residential roads including through roads. Quite often 20 mph is sensible, but quite often it isn't, and it is obvious to anyone when it isn't.
For example, side roads with cars parked on both sides, and room for one car to go down the middle should have a 20 mph limit IMO. But the main roads with two clear lanes and wide pavements should have 30 mph limits IMO. And anyone with any sense knows when to slow down.
Despite the 20 mph limits, there's an awful lot of loonies who ignore them completely and 40+ mph is common, as are dangerous high speed over taking manouevres.
Is the limit enforced? No. So what is the point? Pedestrians are lured into expecting cars going at 20 mph, sensible drivers are inconvenienced, and loonies can race around at excessive speeds with impunity.
No doubt the loonies will kill people, and the morons in government will say "Oooh, clearly 20 mph was too high, let's try 10 mph".
I also often see emergency vehicles going at high speed (40+ mph) down the main 20 mph road. Now I know that some of them are highly trained, and know when it is safe to speed, and when not. But I also know that some of them have very limited training.
Now if I had once seen the police using mobile radar guns on the local speeds I might have some sympathy with the current attitude to road 'safety'. I blame stupid politicians.
|
""Have any of you actually tried to utterly obey a 20 mph limit? It's not easy. ""
"No more difficult than observing, 30,40, 50 or 60. Choosing the correct gear is the key to it."
Daveyjp,
I reckon that's easy to say subjectively...
If I go down a narrow 30mph road with cars parked on both sides, I instinctively slow down, to what I feel is a safe speed. It might be less than 20 mph, it might be a tad more: I couldn't tell you: I'm concentrating hard on watching for kids etc...
Try making me have to ensure that I don't trigger any 20 mph camera arrangement along large swathes of road, and I'll be spending a lot of time looking at my speedo.
I'm not making excuses here - I just honestly think that's what will happen.
|
This proposal comes from "Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety."
Ah, you say - but NO - it is NOT a Parliamentary Group. It is yet another "charitable" lobby group. "the thoughts of Gifford" at www.pacts.org.uk/beyond2010/PACTS-LTT443-Beyond201...f
TRRL sayeth "the killed and seriously injured (KSI)
figure is likely to be reduced by more than 40% by
2010 without any further new measures being
required."
|
|
two very good posts by 'retgwte' and 'leif' that echo my own thoughts
|
Having recently returned from Canada and having driven in various City suburbs and Freeways.
Why is this country so Hell bent in having speed, traffic and town centre Camera's everywhere.
You find most areas make use of thier parks for the children to play and not in the streets. If our areas don't have such areas, then its the goverments fault in not having areas for our children to play safetly in.
Not the motorists
The next thing will Camera's for Bridleways and Cycleways to ensure you don't speed on your Cycle or Pony.
The traffic flows higher in speed and yet they have lower injury rates than we, maybe because the Pedestrian has the Right of Way in most cases, not the Motorist.
|
Latvian, Polish? all part of the EU, so fines coming soon to a place near here.
Middle Eastern plates are a much better idea. How many Mk i eyeballs can read Arabic, let alone ANPR. That said, I was admiring a Bentley with a traffic warden in Westminster the other week. He was able to tell me that it belonged to a member of the Saudi Royal Family (as he recognised the name on correspondence on the dashboard) and that he could read the plate better than he could read the UK plates.
|
Since the current 30mph limit is unenforced and widely flouted, it's all a load of spherical objects.
full stop. No further argument needed.
madf
|
interesting bit in today's motoring section of the DT(p.3) where Paul Smith of Safe Speed quotes fatal accident figures from the DoT that apparently show a 17% fatal or serious accidents in 20mph zones, but a noticeably lower 13% figure for 30mph zones
he goes on to say that shifting the balance from responsibility to regulation does not work
i have to say i agree with him
will anyone in authority listen?.........doubt it, too arrogant and they think they are right, despite evidence to the contrary
|
|
|
|
