|
I would consider it uneconomic if the cost of repair was more than the car was worth and I thought there were more problems on the way.
|
I would consider it uneconomic if the cost of repair was more than the car was worth
I've heard this point of view so often, it must have become just part of received wisdom - but, thinking some more about it, I don't quite understand the logic.
Perhaps it would make more sense to say if the cost of repair were more than the cost required to obtain an equivalent replacement vehicle.... - i.e. by the time you've included the full costs of finding and getting a replacement car up and running with all tax and insurance sorted, you would be talking about a larger amount of money than just what your original car would fetch if offered for sale.
Number_Cruncher
|
"uneconomic if the cost of repair was more than the car was worth" isn't quite what I said. I'd be happy to spend money on repair - would prefer to do so - as long as I didn't think there were more problems on the way. At that point I would cut my losses and buy something, again, to last.
I was really wondering if I would be better buying, say, one-year-old cars and keeping them three years.
Whato do you think?
|
We've bought a Honda Jazz with the intention of keeping it long-term. So far, its all going to plan; the car is only 2.5 years old though. Ask me how its gone in a further ten years!
Whenever I've had a lease car, I've chosen one I might like to buy if its proved a reliable and a decent drive. None have qualified so far - Peugeot 406 3.0 v6, BMW 330d, Mondeo TDCi. But none were disasters either, just not good enough to make me want to buy them.
Edited by Marlot on 14/10/2007 at 20:07
|
|
Most people I know that I used to do mechanical repairs for,have always said, if you spend a grand on a 10 year old car and keep it for a year,you've had your moneys worth out of it,i agree with that as well....
|
|
I can see our Aygo being on the drive a long time. It was new in January and it has done fewer miles than my Audi which was only delivered in July.
Edited by daveyjp on 14/10/2007 at 20:23
|
|
|
Most people I know that I used to do mechanical repairs for have always said if you spend a grand on a 10 year old car and keep it for a year you've had your moneys worth out of it i agree with that as well....
I'd disagree with that to be honest.
You should be able to get a year out of a £2-300 car. £1000? 2 or 3 years at least.
If I were budgeting £1000 a year for a car I'd buy one for about £4000 at 3 years old and keep until it broke. Then after a further 3 years it should be worth £1000, easily. Bangernomics just doesn't work if you only expect 1 year every £1000.
Having said that, I'd never spend anywhere near £1000 on a ten year old car. Madness, unless it was something unusual.
Edited by jase1 on 14/10/2007 at 20:34
|
Difficult now things have changed so much, wouldn't want to try keeping cars made in the last 2 or 3 years going after say 7 or so, i'm of the opinion that the makers learn't their lesson of the 80's and early 90's when they had cured a lot of the rusting problems and their cars were generally easily maintaned (BASICALLY THEY LASTED TOO LONG)
IMO they have designed their susequent vehicles to be non user repairable and electronically unviable to repair.
2 examples.. volvo with their throttle sensor and wiring looms.. merc with the biodegradable wiring loom that takes the ecu out when it deteriorates
Both of these vehicles were 20 year motors from 80's and previous manufacture, bet we don't see many 2007 models still going in 20 years.
jase 1 i agree with you about your spend theory but i reckon its going to get increasingly more difficult to find runnable vehicles over time
|
|
I have noticed over the last couple of years more people are keeping their older cars going,some of these used to replace their cars after 3 years, but have kept them going and don't intend buying new ones These cars are only 4 years old now roughly
|
|
|
I bought my Almera with the intention of keeping it until it falls apart. It's easy to maintain, extremely reliable and I doubt I'll be disappointed. It cost £2500 last Summer, and I can see it lasting another 6 or 7 years. That's if my needs haven't changed in the meantime and forced me to trade it in for something else.
I think increasingly complex ECUs and CR diesels will ensure that very few current models live to a ripe old age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
isn't quite what I said
Sorry - I wasn't aiming my post at you in particular, GM, and I realised that you had added another clause on the end. I was talking generally. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear, and I'm sorry if you thought I was having a dig in some way.
It's just that I can easily imagine the situation where a car is really worth very little, but, the costs involved in obtaining and preparing another similar car for the road would make a repair sensible, where conventional wisdom would render the car scrap.
To get back to your question,
>>I was really wondering if I would be better
It really depends what you mean by better. How much value do you place on upon having a newer car? Do you buy into the frequently posted logic that newer = more reliable? Or are you happy that even older cars will have sufficient reliability for your purpose?
Number_Cruncher
|
>>I can easily imagine the situation where a car is really worth very little, but, the costs involved in obtaining and preparing another similar car for the road would make a repair sensible, where conventional wisdom would render the car scrap.
Good example of this is a mates car, Rover 218 td L 1994,recently failed MOT on steering rack leak,due to cost of replacing car it was as cheap to repair it,including service he paid £650 to get it through,i would have written it off as too expensive and scrapped it,but he thought it worth it and it should now last another 2/3 years.
More people seem to be repairing now than a while ago...but I hear comments like new cars are costing too much to fix now and most cannot be done yourself anymore true though
|
|
|
|
Paid 2 grand for a 10 year old MX5 6 years ago. Still running. New springs, new discs+pads.
|
The problem with setting out to run a car into the ground is drawing the line. I bought a car at 8years old with 95k on the clock intending to do that and budgetted for servicing costs + a few chunky repairs , but suddenly got hit by a major bills - about 25% of what I'd paid for the car. Now you're faced with the dilemma - each one in isolation is not a killer decision but with depreciation, that 25% is actually more like 30+% and if you get another in a year's time then you're damn close to negative equity.
I sold the car after two and a half years and 30k miles for 40% of what I'd paid for it and vowed never to go down that route again and bought a two year old car with a year left on the warranty.
|
I brought the Primera (10-yr old) with the intention of running it for 5-years until the fixed rate on my mortgage runs out, then when I re-mortgage, add £1k to £1.5k to my mortgage and do the same again.
But then I got to thinking, so what if the car is then 15-yrs old, if it does what I need then why not keep it until it goes no more, or I'm hit by huge repair bills.
I see the Primera going for at least the 5-yrs. The Nissan Sunny I had before was 15-yrs old when I sold it (with a bad case of rust underneath....)
Chris
Edited by Chris White on 14/10/2007 at 23:27
|
I'm doing the same as Marlot and take heart from:
www.hondabeat.com/highmiles.php
|
|
I bought my Volvo 240 10 years ago with 180,000 miles on the clock. It's just passed 380,000 miles, still going strong. I don't see any reason to change it. Spares are cheap and plentiful, and it's easy to fix.
|
|
"I see the Primera going for at least the 5-yrs"
You may get double that. The Sunny would only have died because of rust, and I haven't seen a rusty Primera yet. As has been commented already, the previous decade was rather a good one for cars, the bodywork problems having been licked, but multiplex wiring and ECU's everywhere still on the drawing board.
It's ironic that we're being persuaded on all sides to buy new cars with marginally lower emissions, when the manufacture of the new vehicle uses far more resources than its use could possibly save. The greenest option is still to keep what you've got!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My current thoery on this is that the things that kill a car are all age, not mileage, related. Rust and electrics can render a can effectively unrepairable, whereas mecahnical wear and tear is pretty straightforward to deal with.
Driving high mileage, I'm looking after the car with the intention of getting a lot of miles out of it. If I can get to a couple of hundred thousand miles, then the initial £19k purchase cost is nicely diluted, and even if at that point it needed £4-5k of repairs, assuming the rest of the car was in reasonable nick, then that would be better value than buying a new car at £20k.
Maybe. Or perhaps it'll fall apart and I'll be bored of it. In which case it'll be time to return to the tyranny of monthly payments.
|
I'm quite intrigued by the thought process that makes a car just something so bound up with costs. I fully appreciate that a car is a hugely expensive thing, and that it is sensible to keep it, nurture it, repair it etc.
But for me, I'm only going to be here for a limited time. I don't even know how limited.
So I keep a car until I'm bored with it. There are loads of cars out there I'd love to own, to try, to experience. If I keep a car for ten years I'm going to be bored witless with it, and it's just a "thing" that gets me from a to b.
That's not for me - if I get bored in six months then I'll buy something else. I've never kept a car more than a couple of years.
Yes, costs me a fortune, but that's what I like to spend my money on. I've had cars that haven't been huge money pits or cost a fortune to change to - I just wanted to have a go.
Just seems to me that car enthusiasts might want to experience a few more cars is all!
|
>>>as long as I didn't think there were more problems on the way
Where do people find their crystal balls?
|
Dipstick,
I bet your local dealers love you.
Would it not be cheaper to buy an A to B car which does a bit of everything and join a car club which lets you buy points or credits to get a nice car for a weekend or hire something when the mood takes you ?
I buy at two years and sell at seven years. 40-50% of the price has dissolved in depreciation and at seven I'm getting rid (hopefully) before any of the big bills start rolling in.
|
"I bet your local dealers love you. "
I expect they do. Keeps them employed anyway!
Not sure about car clubs - not the same somehow. Anyway, I'm saying I like owning ordinary cars, not super exotica. Just like to try different sorts. To this day I've not convinced myself to sit behind the wheel of a BMW for more than six seconds though, and hated an Audi A8 test drive, so it's not particularly "prestige" cars I'm talking about. (I know, what kind of enthusiast am I - one who doesn't get Germanica is the answer).
I think my favourite car for a long time might have been a Vauxhall Carlton, which was never exactly car club material.
|
I expect they do. Keeps them employed anyway!
Fair point
Anyway I'm saying I like owning ordinary cars not super exotica. Just like to try different sorts.
That was why I suggested hiring when you fancied a change though from experience hire companies in the UK seem stuck with Ford or Vauxhall (maybe this has changed ?)
In Europe when a new car comes out you can generally pick one up for a weekends hire relatively cheaply - Alfa 159 could be had for ?79 for a weekend (Fri. noon - Mon. 9am) unlimited mileage.
I guess people in Europe realise a good offer and don't abuse the hire company offer by taking them on track days and handing them back with bald tyres.
|
Do you know, that's a jolly good idea. Wouldn't mind a decent spin in one of those new Mondeos with adaptive cruise, see how it compares with other systems, and I never did get very far with that Alfa GT idea. And there was that Citroen - never been so car sick as when in a Citroen, so maybe they've changed...
A week of prodding about hire company web sites and a spiffy weekend awaits, if I can track anything down! Hurrah!
Edited by Dipstick on 15/10/2007 at 13:47
|
|
|
|
|
I'm the same as you, Dipstick. So many cars, so little time. If it's affordable and you enjoy it, why not?
|
If I was going to buy a car to last, it would have to be something that would be all the car I'd ever want. So, circa 300bhp, loaded with kit, perhaps a Touring for future practicality.
As it is, I can't keep a car for ever yet becuase I've not finished being able to insure better, faster cars as I get a bit older.
|
I bought my ZX (bad condition outside, nice inside) for £690, quite a lot, some people say too much, but it's lasted me 8 months so far and only required a tenners worth of parts and a couple of very minor repairs that I did myself.
That, err - I was going to say I've got an MoT coming up soon, but I think it expired on the 13th. WHOOPS. Fingers crossed no ANPR van on the way back.
I'll want another couple of years out of it yet.
|
The average depreciation on our Peugeot 106 is so far : £600 pa. Annual mainteance incl MOT about £200..
Cost to replace with a decent 106 same mileage (45K) is around £2,000.
No contest. It's got to last another 10 years,,, at least...
madf
|
|
|
|
"the thought process that makes a car just something so bound up with costs"
Also known as a limited budget.. :-)
|
the art of buying a car to last is to download it at the best possible time before allsorts go wrong
buy low- sell high
yes it can be done
|
"download it"
You mean I could send it as an attachment..?!
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 15/10/2007 at 19:20
|
Snipquote
No, you would download the spares to fix it, but upload the car to scrap heaven at the end of its life.
Or you could offload it onto someone else.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 16/10/2007 at 19:56
|
|
Right. I'm down to offload some web pages...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
