I have been waking up in a cold sweat these past few mornings. I have ordered a C4 Picasso 5 seat EGS Exclusive and traded in my Saab 9-3 Convertible.
I bought the Saab after a real mid-life crisis on the basis that I wanted to own at least one convertible before I die. However, this summer the sun went in every time I put the roof down! That's life I guess. Summer died before I did!
I handed in my notice at work and am now a free man, no debts and plenty of time on my hands.......I am a young pensioner! What could I get to take my one small piece of luggage and all the myriad bags containing my wifes shoes and makeup for our long leisured hols abroad, mainly France? I was seduced by the C4 Picasso. It has all the kit necessary for comfortable motorway cruising for weeks at a time, looks funky. I rather liked the EGS system, coupled with the 2.0L Hdi engine. It is also the only time my wife has actually enthused over a test drive, rather than say "it's a car in'it"?
I had a C4 hatchback before the Saab and was very pleased with it, so.....why am I waking up in a cold sweat each day?
I have read the reviews about it not being as sharp to drive as the S-Max or the Scenic, but I am 52 and not driving in a F1 race. I have read mixed reviews on the EGS, but I am comfy with it.....I got the hang of it within minutes.
Maybe I can report back in a few weeks or a month?
Edited by Honestjohn on 19/10/2007 at 07:05
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Respect for becoming a free man ! Let us know.
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I've had the 7 seat Exclusive for just over a month, in which time it's been down to Spain and back and now has 3.7k on it.
I chose the C4 having discounted the Scenic early on and then having a bad experience at a Ford dealer when trying an S-Max, the C4 is practical and surprisingly good.
My previous car was a Honda Accord diesel tourer which I don't miss in the slightest, the C4 is that good. Most reviews mention body roll but in real terms it isn't really noticeable, steering feedback isn't great but not noticeably worse than a lot of FWD cars.
It's an extremely refined motorway cruiser, windnoise and tyre roar being suppressed very well - It's definitely quieter than the Honda which surprised me (Lots!)
Economy isn't bad either, over 1.8k it did getting to Spain and back it averaged 40.3mpg a lot of which was at 130kph for hours at a time on the French roads.
The EGS is definitely the most difficult aspect to get used to, for most normal situations it's fine provided you feather the throttle for gear changes.
I've found that once you supplement this by overriding the auto and using the paddles to change down, for example entering a tight bend which requires 2nd it's a much better experience.
You can then accelerate smoothly out of the bend instead of lurching round it whilst the auto tries to catch up, getting it right is a very satisfying experience and adds to the pleasure of driving the car.
Auto for the mundane bits with the option to override as appropriate, couldn't ask for more really.
I prefer the looks of the C4 to the S-Max, IMHO it looks more the complete package whereas the front and back of the S-Max appear to be at odds with each other.
Hope you feel the same when you get yours.
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I agree with Malcolm_L's comments on the EGS box.
I've now done 8,000 miles in my C4 1.6HDI EGS, and think the box is an attribute to the car. Using the paddles/gear lever you can get a very smooth change (I don't feather the throttle - don't see the need to). If you are lazy the auto is convenient around town, although the changes are less smooth. But you can swop between modes very easily.
Just realised, the C4 Pic EGS has a column shift, so when changing gears manually, is there only the option of the paddles? The C4 has a conventional gearlever, like a tiptronic box, which you can use as well as the paddles.
The economy is better in auto mode, because I tend to rev it more when cahnging manually. In the C4, the gear changes are quicker if you rev it more, and there is also a 'Sport' button to speed up the changes.
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Definitely the pick of the current crop of MPV's in terms of styling IMO. Seems like a nice car. Good luck with it, and with being a free man! Nice one.
Lack of steering feel is almost universal these days. I drove an S-Max recently which I really liked, but the steering on my 135,000 mile mk2 Mondeo was better weighted, and had more feel and accuracy. These new fangled electro-hydraulics are to blame - they're basically horrible.
EGS sounds interesting!
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Take a good look around a Picasso or Scenic and you'll find umpteen useful features put there by French engineers who've obviously spent hours stuck in holiday traffic during 'la retour' as les enfants clamour in the back and the drivers around you get more and more impatient with the never-ending delays.
IMHO, the OP has picked the perfect car for the job!
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I was starting to sleep better..........then got a call from the dealer. The car won't be ready Saturday as the ECU is only speaking French and German. They have tried to reload the software but no joy, it stops half way through the process. They have ordered a new ECU which will be ready on Tuesday......GULP!
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Did you get it????
Collecting it tomorrow at 2pm! Fingers crossed. Won't sleep tonight through a mixture of anticipation ......and fear! Got 7 days free insurance with Citroen (underwritten by an RBS insurance company) and they quoted £280 for the year for 52yr old with full no claims, car garaged and 8k miles per annum. I expect I could get better elsewhere?
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Collected it yesterday.
Docked points from the dealership as the brand new car had some minor scratch marks on door. There were polished out whilst I waited. The car also had a lot of water marks on it. To be frank, I expected the car to be in pristine condition without a mark (scratch or water!) I didn't expect to need to wait whilst it was washed again and leathered off properly. Made them all feel uncomfortable with my meanest Care Bear Stare and extracted grovelling knee bending alologies.
However, once on the road? Excellent. The EGS system is so easy. I find that I use the paddles even in auto mode. It is more involving, and still no need for a left leg. It is actually more economical than the manual. Took it on M25/M11 today, cruised at 60mph. I could not hear the engine at all! and barely a whisper from wind around bodywork. Getting almost 60mpg on that run (over 20 miles) You only know it is an oil burner at startup and around town in stop start. Smooth ride too, eats speed bumps. Very, very comfy seating position.
The wind screen is massive. Reminds me of school trips on a coach. The view is amazing for driver and passenger. Visors manage to cut out glare very well.
Although not the quickest (according to official figures) it felt fast enough and very torqued up. In 3rd at about 40mph, it winds itself up very nicely indeed to motorway speed. 6th gear at 60 made for very relaxed and hushed ride.
Niggles? Well not really a niggle, but my Exclusive has acoustic glass. Makes it a really silent cruiser. However, with radio/CD on at normal level, cannot hear emergency sirens. Almost got wiped up at green lights when ambulance came across junction against red light on wrong side of road. To be honest, maybe my fault for not checking enough, but hey, green light for me.....wasn't expecting something to come hurtling along on wrong side of road. Normally, if I hear the "nee nars" from miles away, my eyes are on stalks waiting to see if I need to move over. It was rather disconcerting because I always cuss down the idiots who don't make way and are blissfully unaware of the light and sound show.
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S'funny but mine had minor scratches behind the o/s/f wheel which will be dealt with at the first service.
The suspension is excellent but there again it's a Citroen and with a couple of exceptions, Citroen's have always been optimised for comfort rather than outright handling.
I find the suspension thumps a little on broken surfaces but you hear the noise rather than feel the bump.
The cabin noise or lack of it was one of the things that surprised me most, as well as accoustic glass (laminated) it's got accoustic pads in the wheelarches which virtually eliminate tyre roar and hiss from spray.
Glad you like it but don't forget the 1st check at 1500 miles, it's only a cursory glance to check some connections and linkages but there are warranty implications if it's not done.
I was thumbing through the handbook in Southern France when I found this, looked at the mileage whcih was 2.4k and thought OOOOOPS!
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The only other thing I noticed today was how thick the pillar was between front/rear doors. The pillar is smack bang in the oncoming LHS road view at angled junctions.
Having had the C4 hatch before, I was prepared for good quality....but this surpasses it by a good measure! It is certainly luxurious.
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Early doors yet, but given the price and the perceived quality it's possible Citroen are trying to make their residuals more attractive to fleet buyers.
Not a bad car to start with as the MPV sector is a growth market at present and they've already sold a lot of Xsara Picasso's which have given them a good foothold.
If I was a previous Xsara Picasso owner, trading up to a C4 with it's aura of quality would make good marketing sense, probably one of the reasons they've got a 5 and a 7 seater version.
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I am very interested in what you say. The new C4 Picasso 7 seater is lovely. I have been amazed at the pictures of the new shape C5 saloon. It looks such a beautiful car. Please goodness Citroen will get it right with these lovely new vehicles. When I hired the old Picasso, four out of five had very faulty fuel guages.
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My father has the 7 seat Exclusive on Motorbility, he likes it, I had a drive and thought it was an excellent car.
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Glad to see you're enjoying the car and getting to grips with the EGS so quickly. Like you I sometimes use the paddles to 'over-ride' whilst in Auto mode. And like you I get better economy in Auto. I really can't see the point of a clutch peddle again, can you?
The acoustic glass makes it sound very luxurious!
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Does anyone know what suspension is on these.
is it pneumatic on the whole range of 7seaters. i cant see anything on their website.
im looking at the 1.8 VTR+
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I thought it was standard on Exclusives, possibly an option on the VTR+. Must be on the website somewhere.
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You will find it is an optional extra on anything other than Exclusive.
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ah well. cant find any info on suspension type etc. i even had a sales and tech brochure today and no mention of type.
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Done nearly 1000 miles since purchase. 1st impressions:
Smooth as a babies backside on a motorway cruise. Almost silent at 65mph with a pliant soft ride in comfy seats. Just got back from France today (London to Eurotunnel, Calais to Boulogne and return) thoroughly enjoyed the drive, it was such a comfy experience, 6th gear, 1800rpm, cruise controlon......silent as a nuclear sub!
Averaged 46mpg since delivery taken (2 litre diesel) That is mixed in town short and long runs.
Can be a pain in heavy stop start traffic with the EGS system. Jerky pull away at low revs, or when creeping along at 1mph.
Noticed a strange noise at low speed car park manouvering (from the rear wheel area). Seemed to happen when almost full right hand lock on steering, going forward at a creep, sounded like brakes binding(?)
Pneumatic suspension at rear coped well with the cases of wine, beer etc and engine pulled well.
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Can be a pain in heavy stop start traffic with the EGS system. Jerky pull away at low revs or when creeping along at 1mph.
This shouldn't happen. Mine (C4 Coupe) doesn't and I suggest the settings may need adjusting?, or as is probably more likely these days, re-set an ECU?
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8< snip
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 16/12/2007 at 11:01
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I've taken the Delivery of the Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ ( 7 seater ). 1.6hdi 5speed some 3 weeks.
As with many I am very happy it with all round apart from a couple of niggles.
The so called "Economy Mode" is a pain.
If you park with or without the ignition on (Engine not running) with the Radio on for more than approx. 15 mins it shuts down to ECO Mode. You then have to start the engine to reset this mode. With my 53 Pug 307 if I did this it would reset the ECO for another 30mins, but with the C4 you might get 3 or 5 mins. So if you are in your car for any length time shopping, day tripping to the country and having to keep restarting your engine to reset the ECO. It will not do the battery alot of good. Where the whole point of the ECO is to ensure you can start your car before various systems drain the battery. Yet you are not run your engine for any length of time in a parked position due to Regulations.
The dealer says its non adjustable or cannot be dis-armed.
The other problem I had, the fuel cap would not open from the release button without a second persons bit of help (Pulling the flap open).
It remains to see if the dealers remedy works (Lubrication)
Edited by autumnboy on 15/12/2007 at 20:12
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The fuel flap problem can be solved by making a hole in the rubber collar around the fuel inlet.
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Good on you for quitting work, I am down to three days give or take an hour or too. Stop worrying enjoy the car. Bloke I know has had one for years and no bother to speak of.
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autumnboy........will be interested to know how you get on with EGS. I have an issue re it sticking between 2-3 and then 3-4 in "auto" mode. Citroen fobbed me off, but will take it back in new year. I hear tell of another one where a dealership sorted it by putting grease on some contacts/connectors to stop damp getting into it.
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oops, I don't think you have EGS Autumnboy, my mistake.
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No sorry Tack, I don't have the EGS Gearbox.
Has anyone had trouble with the Fuel cap not opening from the release button.
As I said earlier, the dealer lubricated it. Its still the same not opening, so it has to go back again.
The other thing I found it to be abit twitchy when in windy conditions, not gales as you'd expect. Wanders alot worse than most MPV's I driven, you have to keep alert.
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You might want to look at .........c4owners.org....... autumnboy. The wandering bit is mentioned there. You have to register to read full blogs. I think sticking fuel cap is also mentioned.
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my cap doesn't stick and had no problems at all.
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I am about to buy C4 Piccaso 2.0 HDI Exclusive 6speed auto.I tried the EGS system didn't like the jerky change.Only prob is the CO2 EGS 159 Auto 195.Is there anyone out there who has the 6 speed auto.I test drove The Lounge with auto box it was very smooth.All info would be very much appreciated
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Well if we're all coming out of the closet, I too am thinking of getting a C4 Picasso for the wife. We both like the looks, hushed interior, superb ride and the airy, quality feel - the fact it's on 0% over 4 years at the moment helps too. This thread has also helped!
Seen a few reviews criticising the car for the way it crashes on poor surfaces and how it 'lacks polish' in the comfort department, but that's bilgewater. Over the last few years I've come to realise that with only a few notable exceptions (ahem!) all motoring hacks are clowns.
We also get along very well with our local Citroen outfit, Helix in Chelmsford, so much so that we're an 'all Citroen' family. A far friendlier service than my old Mercedes dealer who sold me a new W220 and two years later a W221 S-Class... and still I felt like I was getting in their way whenever I paid a visit. But as with Porsche and BMW, these b*ggers don't even have to get up from behind their desks for new business. It all just comes to them.
So hello Citroen! (And yes, isn't the new C5 gorgeous.)
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the c4 doesnt crash into potholes. mine has a very pliant suspension. its not soft at all just not as hard as others. there is no tilting or wallowing around fast bends or nose dipping under harsh braking. the interior is at least up to the quality of other mainstream maunufactures.
I'll buy another but next time I'll get a 2.0 auto diesel.
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I tested a C4Picasso 1.6HDi EGS in October 2007 as I was trying to match an automatic with good fuel economy. I found the EGS amusing, though I am not sure my wife would, and yes the front crashed into potholes but otherwise floated along nicely. I ultimately declined as Citroen were not discounting enough and (minor issue) I was unsure about rear footwell room which is fine for kids but the under floor lockers mess things up for six footer's.
I purchased an alternate diesel auto (1.9 turbo,manufacturer not important) but whereas it will return 46 mpg on the motroway as soon as it smells a town the economy drops to the low 30s as it runs around in 3rd gear between 30 and 40 mph.
Would you guys with 1.6HDis and EGS own up to the real world economy of your cars (ie not 60mpg at 60 mph) so that I won't be disappointed if I become seduced again
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"as it smells a town the economy drops to the low 30s as it runs around in 3rd gear between 30 and 40 mph."
It actually does this to give you optimum economy and not labour the engine. If it changed to 4th economy would probably be worse.
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The point is torque converters on conventional autos drink fuel, especially in town and make a mockery of government fuel figures.
Does the EGS overcome this as Peugeot /Citroen claim
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Have averaged 41.5 mpg over 5k miles with a 2.0l diesel EGS.
PS = Crank shaft oil seal blew and had to be replaced. Good job it is a common engine across a number of vehicles or I'd have had to wait weeks for a replacement seal.
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I had a C4 coupe with 1.6 HDI and EGS. The official emissions are lower than the manual, so I assume that their claim must be true. For what it's worth I got an average of 43mpg in urban driving.
IMHO the official urban consumption figures are the closest to real world figures.
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Thanks for that.
It seems a few more manufacturers are offering diesels with EGS or double clutch gearboxes in the near future (Ford, Fiat) so there should be a bit more choice next time I change.
I agree about urban figures being more representative of everyday motoring.
Excuse my ignorance, what is IHMO?
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I received my C4 Picasso 5 seater 1.8 manual on 18.04.2008. I bought it without test driving and was a bit worried about the hill start assist - I shouldn't have been - it's great, as is the electric parking break. I found out its first major flaw in the first 10 seconds: My shoe gets stuck on the clutch pedal! I've driven many cars (in 30 years of driving), but this is the first one that I've had to change the position of my foot on the clutch pedal - I have to use the toe of my size 11 shoe, otherwise I can't release the clutch! The other major flaw is how unstable the car is in windy conditions - I believe the soft suspension contributes to this - you can never relax and it gets quite dangerous. Turbulence from other vehicles on the motorway is also a problem. Apart from these issues I'm quite happy with the car - it looks great (mine is in Tivoli Blue) and handles well. Mine is on a 3 year lease - I'll probably not keep it beyond the 3 years unless I can get fixes for the mentioned issues.
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