Who uses their headlights even during the day?
I heard that people who use their lights in the day are 35% less likely to be pulled out on causing them to brake than people who dont.
Unless its bright sunshine i always like to put my lights on especially now the days are a bit dull and the light after work is fading.
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snipquote
EC drops plans for mandatory Daytime Running Lights
The European Commission has decided to drop controversial plans to require all motor vehicles to have front lights switched on at all times when the vehicle is in use - day or night. Not only was this strongly opposed by thousands of CTC members, pedestrian groups, motorcyclists and others writing to their MEPs last year, but new evidence has also shown that the introduction of rules on ?Daytime Running Lights? (DRL) have worsened road safety in Austria, Bulgaria and Poland"
(source: CTC newsnet)
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Then why do Canada use the lights and have low rates.
Complete opposite???
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>> (EC ... new evidence has also shown that the introduction of rules on ?Daytime >> Running Lights? (DRL) have worsened road safety in Austria, Bulgaria and Poland) Then why do Canada use the lights and have low rates.
I don't know. Have you some 'net resource with further information that I could look at, for interest?
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A wee document from the n-y house seems to indicate that Canada has a far higher rate of road fatalities than the UK. See:
www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/doc05/ras-12.htm
(1997 figures - were daylight lights compulsory in Canada then?)
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I found the opposite, when I drive with headlights on people tend to pullout on me more often. I think it's because the lights make it more difficult for some people to judge speed and/or distance.
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2005 Ford Mondeo Zetec 2.0 TDCi 130ps
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Like most people, I only put the lights on during the day when visibility is reduced by weather. A lot of people seem to drive with their lights on though (Volvo drivers obviously excused!), I frequently see BMWs driving with their dipped beam on in the middle of a bright day like today - maybe they found them by accident whilst trying to find the indicators on a roundabout ;-)
p.s. Also agree with kith about potentially reduced visibility due to glaring.
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I'm not sure how people can live with having their lights on all day.
I put my dipped beam on on Friday when it was hoying it down on the A1, but then forgot to knock them off when it stopped raining and I was then driving through the middle of Newcastle. Two people in quick succession flashed me to switch the lights off before I worked out what they were on about.
Surely people who have their lights on all the time must notice everyone around them flashing to get them to switch them off?
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Headlights can be a problem....humps.,bumps........hump back bridges etc.
The answer for me is to demonstrate that the engine is on and the car WILL move and is a real danger to others.
Dedicated running lights............. NOT headligths.
BrianH
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I did a little rant on this a few months back, there isn't any evidence that headlights help on the road. If it did help I'd expect to see a significant drop in motorbike crashes (the 'sorry mate, I didn't see you' pulling out of a junction type) since all headlights have been hardwired on for a few years. But there hasn't been a drop.
Much better to think of headlights, high-vis jackets etc as something that might help, or might not. But some seem to treat them as a kind of forcefield! 'He must be able to see me, I've got my lights on' is clearly rubbish - how can you know they're looking, or recognise what they see as a danger.
That's without the issues of it being more difficult to judge speed and distance, and the risk of it looking like a flash of the headlights over bumps.....
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I think the best way to cut down on accidents is to ban silver and black cars, and have all cars painted flourescent orange.
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I think the best way to cut down on accidents is to ........... have all cars painted fluorescent orange.
You're not far wrong. At one time (in the 1970s?) the AA did a survey which related the various colours to the number of accidents. They concluded that the most visible colour was yellow. Coventry Fire Brigade went a step further and commissioned Warwick University to formulate the most visible colour they could, and they came up with a yellow tinged with green, but that's another story.
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L\'escargot.
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Coventry Fire Brigade (...) commissioned Warwick University to formulate the most visible colour they could and they came up with a yellow tinged with green but that's another story.
Various studies have indeed shown that the most visible colour is a yellow-green (against a suitable non yellow-green background (!).
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In a lot of cases it's a sanctimonious thing. Drivers with lights on in the daytime are telling you that you should know better for not having yours on. I just take it as a sign that they need to try to light up the road surface because their eyesight isn't very good. At one time there was a craze amongst younger drivers for having not just headlights on but rear foglights as well during daytime.
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L\'escargot.
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Don't let's start a global warming thread (again) but wouldn't the use of DRTs increase the emissions of greenhouse gases due to the extra engine power being needed to use the lights? Not much but enough to upset the body pierced, tattooed, 3 coloured hair tree huggers I should think.
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I run with my headlights on during the day becuase its important to remind other drivers that I am better than them, becuase I have Angel Eye headlights and they do not.
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Assuming 2 * 55W bulbs and 10% efficiency in converting the fuel's energy to crankshaft torque and thence to electrical power;
Petrol_LCV=32e6; % Petrol Lower Calorific Value (Joules per litre) Lamp_Power=110; % Electrical Power consumed by lights nu_total=0.1; % Overall efficiency between fuel and lamp fuel_volume_flow_rate=Lamp_Power/(nu_total*Petrol_LCV); Litres_per_hour=fuel_volume_flow_rate*3600
Litres_per_hour =
0.1238
OK, not much per car, but, if all cars do this, then it's a significant amount of fuel.
Number_Cruncher
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I put them on when the sun is bright and low in the sky. I wish others would too; improves visibility no end. There's a reason the Scandanavians do.
But I've posted this before.
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>In a lot of cases it's a sanctimonious thing
Or maybe it's just a "I drive a VW with auto lights, which come on above a certain speed" thing. That's what it is with me. People being able to see me better/get out of my way more quickly is merely a bonus!
My other half calls them naughty lights though, because once they've been activated by speed, they take ages to go off again and everyone can tell you've been doing more than you should have. ;-)
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"everyone can tell you've been doing more than you should have. ;-)"
Ah, that's why SWMBO's lights are on all the time !
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Self preservation, on Scottish rural roads where tourists from the continent can occaisionally drive on the wrong side when turning onto a deserted main road. We have direction arrows painted on the road at some exits from tourist attractions.
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My lights come on below a certain light level. What car has lights which come on relative to one's speed and what would be the point of that? I am sure one could get round it by removing a fuse if one wanted to as some Volvo drivers seem to do with their 24 hour a day lights.
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In Italy it is law to have them on in the daytime on extra urban roads and motorways. Not sure if it has done any good over there though I must say, they mostly obey it which is surprising!
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>>Assuming 2 * 55W bulbs
But my standard 98 Mondeo saloon also switches on the rear lamps x 4 plus number plate lamps x 2
Adds another 30W? Oh and some instrument bulbs and the auto quadrant lamp.
(I would expect the cheapest modifications to allow daylight running)
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>>But my standard 98 Mondeo saloon....
So, scale the answer up accordingly! That's why I stated my assumptions rather than just giving a number. The number I quoted is just an order of magnitude estimate - does it cost pence or pounds per hour?
Had I just said 100 ml per hour, what use would that have been?
Number_Cruncher
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I have noticed that when ticking over in neutral with sidelights on after putting the car in the garage, when they are turned off RPM drop from 800 to 600. i don't usually have the headlights on then so don't know what difference they make to tickover speed, clearly this is raised by the extra alternator load.
Round here all the buses have headligts on even while parked up for 10 minutes at the terminus. Either this is bus company policy or the drivers are all Swedish :-)
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>>ticking over in neutral
If the car has any form of idle speed control, you can't use tickover speed to infer engine load - the valve will be moving to compensate for the changing load.
Number_Cruncher
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There's plenty of statistical evidence that use of dipped headlights in daytime significantly reduces accidents.
Efforts to introduce mandatory daytime use of headlights throughout Europe were twarted by the motorbike lobby who are concerned that they'll lose their current visibility/safety advantage by using mainbeam headlights while they race around.
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There's plenty of statistical evidence that use of dipped headlights in daytime significantly reduces accidents.
And plenty that it doesn't. As I said above, if it did then SMIDSY accidents should have reduced?
Efforts to introduce mandatory daytime use of headlights throughout Europe were twarted by the motorbike lobby who are concerned that they'll lose their current visibility/safety advantage by using mainbeam headlights while they race around.
At last, a sensible argument into the debate, backed up by evidence which I'm sure will be forthcoming :-)
Main beam when there's other traffic around is very silly (because judging distance and speed is more difficult) and of course illegal. For silly people only IMHO
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I imagine that as the proportion of vehicles displaying lights during the day increases, there are diminishing returns on accident reduction, at some point where when the majority have lights on, more accidents occur.
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> ...removing a fuse if one wanted to as some Volvo drivers seem to do with their 24 hour a day lights.
Not a fuse, AS - not any more, anyway. To get the running lights of my S60 disabled, I had to write and sign a letter to the dealer, which they then set against their download record for the software patch they installed to to disable the lights. I actually turn them back on rather a lot - the car is dark green and, I suspect, rather hard to see on bright days when it's in the shadow of trees or under a bridge.
Automatic lights might have been handy for the young chap pootling his unlit silver Civic along the M40 in the twilight this evening. An automatic keep-left device and an automatic 'steer with your hands, not with your mouth' reminder would have helped too. }:---)
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>What car has lights which come on relative to one's speed
Mine, my other half's and pretty much everyone else I know whose car has auto lights.
I think it kind of makes sense. From memory, the theory is that if you're going constantly at that speed (I think mine come on after a certain time at 85 ish mph) you are probably on a motorway, and making yourself a bit more visible to everyone else isn't really a bad thing is it.
People certainly get out of the lane more quickly if you're behind them with your lights on!
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"Mine, my other half's and pretty much everyone else I know whose car has auto lights".
"People certainly get out of the lane more quickly if you're behind them with your lights on! "
Let me have 3 guesses.
1. The cars are German makes?
2. They are not Polos.
3. They are BMW 3 series?
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two out of three ain't bad.
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..... I think mine come on after a certain time at 85 ish mph.
Having automatic headlights doesn't give you the right to exceed the speed limit.
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L\'escargot.
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I don't mind dipped headlights, but I am often dazzled by motorbikes with lights on full beam. It seems to stupid to me as I cannot look ahead and have to use averted vision, which surely is dangerous. When they are behind they disable my mirrors. Surely it must be illegal?
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When I worked for Metrobus down in SE London it was company policy to run with your headlights on at all times and in fact you could be invited to tea and biscuits with the boss if you were found not to be. Now, in the coach, I drive with my lights on all the time. Don't see the point of doing so in my car though unless the weather's a tad dreich. Is that contradictory?
As an aside I've noticed an awful lot of drivers using full beam on motorways and dual carriageways during the day. I can see the point of main beam, but full beam? It's just annoying!
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So that I may enter the zone of enlightenment, what is the difference between main beam and full beam? I only have dipped and one other which is called something else!
As an aside I've noticed an awful lot of drivers using full beam on motorways and dual carriageways during the day. I can see the point of main beam, but full beam? It's just annoying!
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So that I may enter the zone of enlightenment what is the difference between main beam and full beam?
They're the same thing. Every car in this country should have sidelights, dipped beam and main/full beam.
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Greg - please forgive the awful pedantry,
>>Every car in this country should have
Every post 1931 car in this country....
Really old cars don't need em!
Number_Cruncher
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Every post 1931 car in this country.... Really old cars don't need em!
Oh dear! To think I started off by simply typing "every car should have...", and then i added "in this country" to prevent the pedants. You mean they didn't just nip to Halfords in 1930 and buy a couple of blue xenons? ;-)
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to prevent the pedants...
I get the feeling I'm going to be made to pay for my petty indulgence in pedantry!
Number_Cruncher
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So that I may enter the zone of enlightenment what is the difference between main beam and full beam?
I always thought that main beam was what you used at night (or day, as this thread seems to be saying!) and full beam was what you used on unlit roads. I sit corrected.
Still don't understand why people use full beam during the day on motorways. Perhaps someone will shed (ahem) light on this, rather than just pick holes in my terminology... ;-)
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I always thought that main beam was what you used at night
No, that's dipped beam
and full beam was what you used on unlit roads.
Yes, that's full beam, otherwise known as main beam.
Sorry NC, I've joined in with the pedantry. Well - AFAIK it's illegal to use full beam during the day full stop, and when you're facing oncoming traffic at night. However, because traffic-Plod is now a yellow box with a lens rather than a person in a blue uniform, I doubt those who break many motoring laws other than speeding will be subject to any proceedings.
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My auto-lights come on above a certain speed the same as PG, and guess what it's a VW Golf (it can be disabled via the cars computer).
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I drive a company van Mon-Fri and I have to pay the £500 insurance exess if I'm involved in an accident which is judged(by them) to have been my fault. I have my lights on in anything other than bright sunlight and sometime even then! I was prompted to do this by noticing how visible volvo's were.Before this situation they really annoyed me now I can't see why.P.S this is the second time I've been in this situation anyone know if insurance is available?
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..... I am often dazzled by motorbikes with lights on full beam.
If I meet one such I just assume they are trying to light up the road to make up for defective eyesight and I put mine on full beam to help them see me.
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L\'escargot.
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..... I am often dazzled by motorbikes with lights on full beam.
Are you sure it is main beam ? Motorbikes with single headlights give a flat straightahead beam of light which is neither optimised for driving on the left or right. These headlights are not designed or intended to give the same spread of light as a car headlight.
They should not blind you in the same way that full beam does but they are meant to increase the visibility of the bike.
Newer Volvo drivers (models introduced from around 2004 - not facelift models) can disable the day running lights in the computer menu.
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>>At last, a sensible argument into the debate, backed up by evidence which I'm sure will be forthcoming :-) [that motorbike lobby prevented the introduction of universal use of lights].
It's true.
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Headlight during the day can be excused. Headlights plus fog lights at any time except when it's very limited visibility cannot.
Headlights when it's raining should be made compulsory like it is in Florida.
And all fog lights (front and rear) should be rset every time the ignition is switched off or any gear higher than 4th is selected - argument being that if it's fast enough to use 5th, then the visibility must be good enough to allow it, so you don't need the extra lights.
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Headlights when it's raining should be made compulsory like it is in Florida.
I thought it was until I checked the 2007 edition, it's not mentioned in there:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...9
I was sure it was mentioned when I passed my car test in 1986 and my bike test in 2002.
I still use dipped headlights in rain but can't work out why people feel the need for rear foglights in rain. It's rain and spray, not fog.
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If visibility is severely reduced, why differentiate between rain, spray, fog, hail, snow or sand?
I don't and put on my rear high intensity light(s).
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Cars don't have rear fog lights, they have high intensity rear lights intended for use in poor visibility, regardless of cause.
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People who use fog lights in rain should be shot. It almost makes me want to ram them out of principle.
Being sat behind these idiots and having their "high intensity" lights turned into a million smaller ones as they reflect off every water droplet on the windscreen and bonnet...AARGGHH it makes me angry just typing it.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Sounds terrific DP, everything studded with scintillating rubies, like a dream from the 1001 nights, what are you complaining about?
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I agree with those who say headlamps on in the daytime make it harder to judge speed and distance; I find this is quite true both as a driver and as a pedestrian.
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Cars don't have rear fog lights they have high intensity rear lights intended for use in poor visibility regardless of cause.
My car, according to Volvo, has a fog light. They even go to the trouble of calling them that in the manual.
E - Rear fog light
By design, there is one rear fog light only, located in the driver's side tail light cluster.
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Cars don't have rear fog lights they have high intensity rear lights intended for use in poor visibility regardless of cause.
According to the highway code, they're called "fog lights".
Source: tinyurl.com/339954
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Cars don't have rear fog lights they have high intensity rear lights
It just depends on how happy (or not!) you are with common parlance. Most people say sills instead of rocker panels, hubcaps instead of nave plates, shock absorbers instead of movement dampers and windscreen pillars instead of A-posts etc. I'm gradually (but slowly!) learning to go with the flow.
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L\'escargot.
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Headlight during the day can be excused. Headlights plus fog lights at any time except when it's very limited visibility cannot.
I used to think that but now I've come round to the belief that, like baseball caps and blue neon lights, they're a useful indicator that you're in a presence of a moron who's best watched carefully and given a wide berth.
Returning to the topic, I've only ever been to Cornwall once but noticed a very much higher proportion of daytime headlamp users there. I was told by a native that it was 'a west country thing'. I'm not sure why this should be.
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mine and SWMBOs car has auto lights, which will come on if you drive through a tunnel or under a m/way type bridge if you're slow enough
for some u/k reason hers can be slow to turn off at times........which means i'm driving along with the headlights on, but don't realise, as in daylight you can't see the dashboard lights
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A colleague at work had the auto headlights on his 407 set off the bomb alert system when boarding a EuroTunnel train.
As these lights switch on, they go through an auto levelling cycle as well, and as the beams got to the top of this cycle, it clearly upset something. Cue sirens and lots of arm waving! :-)
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Unless its bright sunshine i always like to put my lights on especially now the days are a bit dull and the light after work is fading.
Strangely wnough, here we have the exact opposite problem!
On long out-of-town trips, the heat of the sun causes a hethaze/mirage effect coming off the tar, so the authorities advise drivers to have headlights on during the day, as this aids visibility.
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I have auto lights, and they do come on in light that seems fairly good to me, and always when I go under a bridge locally, too slowly. i.e they're sensitive!
My old Volvo 960 just needed a small screw-driver to turn off that 'always on' facility. I certainly think bikes should have prema-lights.
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On a related note, how many here turn on their lights in a multi-storey or underground car park?
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I do..well, the car does.
Sorry ;-)
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I read, some time ago, using the dipped headlights during the summer was generally a good idea giving the electrics something to do.
Some load on the battery and alternator during a time when otherwise the only work out it got was starting the engine.
It kept things ticking along for when autumn and winter came and full load was then put on the system (heated rear windows, heaters, lights etc...).
I'm not sure how relevant it is these days with cars having computers, integrated sat-navs and TV's, automatic climate control and various sensors all placing demands on the electrics.
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I've heard of giving cars personalities but to be concerned that the electrons are getting bored on long journeys is just taking it a bit far....:)
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:) Batteries work better if used. Sitting idle does nothing for their longevity, you get build up on the plates when they do not charge/discharge.
I'm sure the little guys enjoy a quick circuit round the battery internals too...:)
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