With the increase in fuel costs and having listened to the radio this morning I have decided that it could be time time to start using vegetable oil, on a 50/50 basis sort of fill up drive a couple of 100 miles add vegetable oil,and vary it.
Any considerations on using it with a 2.2 dc renault espace, suitability and whether it's a good idea or not.
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ive used 100percent veg oil in a 1.9xud n/a engined 405 for 30k miles until i sold it to a friend, he then wrote it off but kept it on his farm. he now uses it to charge the batteries in a sited caravan he uses at the back of some farm buildings and he's even connected the air con from the car into a flexible pipe and into the caravan. he uses new veg oil and in the summer it was running at tick over for 12 hrs a day six days a week for 9 weeks without any problems at all.
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Well you still need to pay over excise duty on the vegetable oil that you use so unless you are getting it free you could have a problem.
No idea if it wil actually work in your car either!
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It would take a very brave individual to run a common rail diesel on veg oil. It is alleged to be possible, but there are many things to consider.
Firstly, vegetable oil is a lot thicker than diesel at room temperature. This is likely to cause the pump great difficulty in achieving and maintaining the correct rail pressure. This will put strain on the pump shaft and the pump drive system (usually the cambelt). In addition to this, sensors on the fuel rail will not allow the engine to run if the pressure is insufficient, so you could end up with a scenario where you need some kind of pre-heater system in the fuel lines to thin out the oil enough to allow the pump to achieve the required pressure to allow the engine to run.
Secondly, as with conventional diesels, common rail units rely on the diesel itself to keep the pump and injectors adequately lubricated. HJowever, the pressures in a common rail system are much greater, and therefore the lubrication requirements of the components are much more stringent. Who is to say how something designed to be lubricated by diesel will fare when lubricated by veg oil? With injectors commonly costing £300 each, and pumps in the £,000's, and the requirement to have the engine management system "recoded" to these new components if they are swapped out, any failure is likely to be very expensive.
If you want to run veg oil, get an old mechanically injected diesel with a Bosch pump.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Its an extra 3.50 a fill up for an average tank - hardly earth shattering
It would also be a bad idea to run a CR diesel on veg oil.
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V.good replys so far.
as stated - new diesels are difficult to run on veg oil.
ideally, a mix of diesel with veg oil (and 3-5% unleaded in the winter) is the best solution.
Only run it on the old TD or straight diesels.
Does anyone have a list of cars which it would be suitable on?
I presume the Rover diesel engine found in the 200 and 400 would be fine.
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If it's the 218/418 model, then this is just a Peugeot XUD engine anyway which is supposed to be one of the better engines for veg oil.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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You no longer have to account for the duty provided you're using under 2,500 or something similar, litres per annum. There have been a couple of threads on this recently.
At 50p per litre, not £1, that is saving you £30 per tank.
WEll worth doing, imho.
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You no longer have to account for the duty provided you're using under 2 500 or something similar litres per annum.
That's 22,000 miles a year in a 40 mpg car. Not bad!
I can't see how you (or they) could prove your mileage breakdown between diesel and veg oil anyway.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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>prove your mileage breakdown
They cannot. But realistically it should provide plenty of miles for most private individuals. But it stops commercial users. It would be quite easy to prove that they were using more than 2,500 litres. And anyway, such users WOULD keep their diesel receipts so as to obtain a tax deduction.
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Only if Bosch pump, if (I think it was Lucas?) - then this WILL breakdown eventually. It may run for a short while, but will break.
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Sory - that was a reply to and DP.
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Only if Bosch pump if (I think it was Lucas?)
IIRC, Bosch pumps will run on anything, Lucas pumps seize up if they don't get a bit of real diesel in with the veg oil. CR diesels are also a no-no, regardless of the mix.
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That correct. CD diesels can be converted to run on Bio Diesel, not sure if cooking ol would work -even on a converted car (two tank method).
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Yeah, the Lucas pumps can't deal with the increased viscosity of veg oil, although apparently can run on it if the oil is heated first. I can buy a kit for the Mondeo (Lucas CAV equipped) which runs the incoming veg oil through a heat exchanger which is plumbed in to the engine's cooling system. You start the car on diesel, and when the coolant reaches a sufficient temperature to heat the vegetable oil, it can be switched over to veg oil. There's even a posh version which monitors the coolant temperature and does it for you.
I read somewhere that the shafts of the Lucas pumps have a weak link designed into them. The idea is that, should the pump seize, the shaft breaks to stop the timing belt teeth being stripped. Running a Lucas pump on veg oil triggers this "safety" mechanism quite quickly.
How true this is, I don't know, but I do know a Lucas CAV pump is the wrong choice for a veg oil conversion. The Bosch pumps work just fine.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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I think Wotspur you should look at the dedicated websites for oil burned with reference to CR Renaults there are loads of evidence that they will run on the stuff but not at 50% ratio the accepted level looks to be 30% in Summer and 10 in winter.
Everyone here goes on about Veg oil but sunflower oil looks to be widely used on the continent there's some big trial of Diesels Taxis in Belgium.
I have trialled Sun Flower oil in a PD engined Seat with no issues
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Isn't the use of vegetable oil in place of diesel likely to lead to a scarcity of vegetable oil and the shortage of land on which to grow other food? One of the big global problems is trying to feed everybody.
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L\'escargot.
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>> One of the big global problems is trying to feed everybody.
Ah thats where genetically mod crops work well as they are able to be grown in area like Africa that have issues with Pests and drought.
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(food into fuel issues)
It seems logical at first sight to grow veg. oil for fuel rather than to get fuel from wheat, etc. It needs far less fuel-using processing, for a start - although I'm not sure what the relative yields of "fuel value" per hectare are.
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You start the car on diesel and when the coolant reaches a sufficient temperature to heat the vegetable oil it can be switched over to veg oil.
Eh? Can I smell TVO?
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Rapeseed oil yield is around 450-550 litres per hectare.
I suppose you should subtract the number of litres used by farm machinery to sow and harvest that to give a net yield.
I'm currently using 20 litres of oil to every 30 litres of diesel in my Passat. This will save me around £1100 a year.
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Some people get all sanctimonious about other motoring misdemeanours and then proceed to evade fuel duty by running on vegetable oil.
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L\'escargot.
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That's cos it's a tax not a law!!!
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That's cos it's a tax not a law!!!
Evading tax in an offence.
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L\'escargot.
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evade fuel duty by running on vegetable oil.
i thought we'd already established that no duty was due up to a certain amount.
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To get duty-free fuel you have to have processed the veg oil into bio-diesel. Just putting fresh veg oil in the tank does not qualify.
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I think that was the position of HMC&E before the 2500 litres tax free allowance was made.
I think SVO (straight veg oil - off the shelf into the tank) is ok now, as it technically passes the specifications that HMC&E asked for bio diesel.
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That's correct Shaz, raw veg oil exceeds the lower limits by more than processed biodiesel! Just ignore the jealous petrol users.
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Hey Hamsafar - just noticed your login name after reading it correctly- (I think I mistakenly read it as hamster beofore!).
I hadbeen using veg oil in my ZX td - but after that was written off, bought an accord aerodeck as a runaround (petrol I know).
Just bought another diesel though I won't be putting veg oil in this!
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04 Alfa Romeo 156 SW JTD 20v - Loving it.
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Hamsafar, I see you are using SVO in your Passat. Is this a PD engine or older Tdi. Have you changed the fuel system in any way ie added a heater. How many miles have you done with this mix?. Sorry for all the questions, but looks like a good money saver if the engine can cope with this different fuel.
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How do Dieselnut, it is a direct injection 2.5 Tdi 2002 year, it is not PD or CR. It seems fine *touch wood*
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04 Alfa Romeo 156 SW JTD 20v - Loving it.
The best sounding diesel engine ever made??? Gotta be up there.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Sounds pretty good yes. Got a nice burble to the engine sound, a bit Suburu like, but not if anyone knows what I mean.
A very nice engine - revs well, and a lotof torque very low down.
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04 Alfa Romeo 156 SW JTD 20v - Loving it.
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