The XR4x4s werewell liked for such a task - the 2.8 Capris that they replaced were hopeless.
XR4x4 went off the road here in N. Devon. Not going too fast if I recall and 2 Police died. Is there anything sensible to touch a Subaru?
MD
|
|
|
there used to be a thing called TPAC which from memory i'm fairly sure meant Tactical Pursuit And Containment, which is/was 4 larger (normally traffic) police cars which on a motorway or dual carriageway type road would surround the crook and all gradually slow down encasing them in police cars
it seems to have slipped
and i suspect the reason is:......expense re the damage to all the police cars...and.....there's hardly any traffic cops left, so where would you get 4 from at any one time, particularly in a rural area
|
One of the best methods of stopping a chase is using the stinger. If you made sure that every police car, CID, van etc had a stinger onboard and a trained operative then surely more chases could be ended this way?
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
|
Bobby
There's an even easier way. A 5-ton stolen van was proving difficult to stop one winter night and the simple expedient of parking a recovery truck on the inside of a rural bend and applying a gallon of 20/50 to the wet road alongside had the desired effect. Straight into the ditch.
The road had to be closed until the council came out with sand though....
|
|
|
One of the best methods of stopping a chase is using the stinger.
One of the news reports I saw today said that the stinger was becoming less effective because of the increasing use of run flat tyres.
|
|
|
|
Despite the dangers in high speed pursuits, it would be catastrophic to just let the villains get awy in the misguided belief that it would be safer for the public. It would simply result in far more cars being stolen by joy-riders who knew they were immune from capture if they just refused to stop and drove madly enough. There was an interesting point made on one of these Police Stop! programmes a while back, where a traffic officer made the point that joyriders were not just dangerous when they were being chased by police, they drove like that all the time.
--
|
The Minister responsible is taking a sensible line on the report.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7000318.stm
"Police minister Tony McNulty said he welcomed Acpo's review, but said that the key issue was that the majority of police chases were caused by suspects refusing to stop when requested. "
|
>>" said that the key issue was that the majority of police chases were caused by suspects refusing to stop whenrequested. "
Was this the Minister with Special Responsibility for Stating The Bleeding Obvious?
[Which chases occurred after suspects didn't refuse to stop?]
|
|
|
The Minister responsible is taking a sensible line on the report. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7000318.stm "Police minister Tony McNulty said he welcomed Acpo's review but said that the key issue was that the majority of police chases were caused by suspects refusing to stop when requested. "
So, if someone has refused to stop and is an imminent risk to the public, why not stop them with lethal force?
Once it's understood, I reckon it'd put a bit of a dent in people refusing to stop.
L
|
Lou
Even when the intent exists; the methodology is fraught with practical difficulties.
Arming police helicopters with Hellfire missiles is one way - bit rough on the hostage though.
|
|
Is the accident cost of having occasional police chases less than the cost of NOT having them? If joyriders, getaway criminals and lunatic speed merchants knew they could get away with their behaviour without fear of pursuit by police, there would be more such extreme bad driving.
|
sometimes it takes a few tries before PIT works:
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QTVnpr2ZqZg
I'll always remember a Sierra being driven by a teenager about 80mph up the M90 with at least 2 dozen cop cars and bikes in formation behind it - looked like they were just going to wait for it to give up or run out of fuel, no attempt was being made to get ahead of it.
|
|
|
|
|
"traffic officer made the point that joyriders were not just dangerous when they were being chased by police, they drove like that all the time"
Not quite like that, surely? I'm as keen to see scroats caught as anyone, but chasing people with no regard for life and limb through traffic is asking for trouble. Perhaps a taser for cars is required?
|
I agree that the safety of innocent drivers and bystanders must be of paramount importance, but fleeing cars should be stopped without any regard whatsoever for the occupants.
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
at the risk of this being deleted I've often thought Private (now Sergeant) Lee Clegg had the right idea when dealing with joy-riders but only when it's guaranteed there aren't any innocent people in the car too. ie children or someone being taken against their will.
|
|
|
Stinger isn't as easy as it sounds to use (and neither is Stopstick...something similar but a bit more user friendly)
firstly you have to be in front of the fleeing vehicle and use it in a place they won't be able to drive around...that isn't that easy to work out sometimes, as obviously the fleeing crook decides his own route
it's incredibly dangerous for the user, because you have to be stood near it, ready to quickly withdraw it for pursuing police vehicles and/or innocent members of the public that are following
it's also somewhat unwieldy
|
|
Fire a dart with a rubber sucker and a tracking device and sit back and wait. Watch progress on a screen, and then when the car eventually stops, send the nearest police car.
|
|
cough up for more helicopters....and/or allow properly trained officers to choose their spot and then force them off the road
|
"cough up for more helicopters"
Preferably big ones with electromagnets...
|
|
|
|
Wp
Might I commend to you the advantages of carrying a gallon [5ltr] of old oil..... [Petrol or diesel would work too.]
Near-invisible; remotely pre-deployable and much faster acting - by giving you the choice of impact zone the decamp of the survivors is easier to thwart.
[Though you'd then have to arrest yourself for an environmental pollution offence under the EU Waste Directive.]
|
I recall an article about a harpoon device on police cars that sent an electromagnetic pulse into the fleeing car to kill its electronics.
It is IMHO a lose lose situation for the police. They are damned if they chase and damned if they don't.
Perhaps a day will come when all cars are fitted with security that will make joy riding impossible.
|
"Perhaps a day will come when all cars are fitted with security that will make joy riding impossible"
That'll be the 70mph speed limiter proposed for company cars - see other thread!
Whenever I watch (rarely) shows like 'Police, Camera, Action' I always think that the resources devoted to apprehending a stolen car - helicopter, several patrol cars, dog handlers etc. is out of all proportion to the crime - it's a piece of metal they've nicked after all.
And then part of me thinks that if you decide not to bother with that crime, what else will you start letting go?
--
Soupytwist !
|
I understand your comments Soupytwist, but would you want them to chace if it was your car that was stolen?
Perhaps zero tollerance is needed.
Oh and the limiter should be for all cars not just company cars.
|
If speed limiters are fitted, most probably they will on new cars.
And even then there will be always devices available in the market using which one can bypass the system ;)
|
It was a largely tongue in cheek comment but I would imagine that part of the attraction of stealing a car for 'joyriding' is the possibility of driving it at high speed, potentially with a police car chasing you. Now, if there's a significant proportion of cars about where that's not an option, would the attraction of the crime pall somewhat?
And you wouldn't be able to tell from the outside which cars had bypassed the limiter and which hadn't would you?
--
Soupytwist !
|
I can honestly say that if someone chose to steal either of my household's cars I would not be bothered if the police chose not to devote the resources described to chasing the thieves.
I'd want the thieves prosecuted and maybe the best way to gather the evidence and give the case a good chance of success in court is to use those resources but merely for the recovery of the car, or if the necessary evidence could be gathered without them, no.
That may make me odd, or a woolly liberal do gooder or whatever, but that's what I think.
--
Soupytwist !
|
would you want them to chace if it was your car that was stolen?
My only want if my car was stolen would be for it to be completely written off with no chance of repair. If the scrotes inside were injured or killed, so much the better.
I have no time whatsoever for joyriders. They forfeit all rights the second they get in the car as far as I'm concerned.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
|
|
I recall an article about a harpoon device on police cars that sent an electromagnetic pulse into the fleeing car to kill its electronics.
They use something like that in the film '2 Fast 2 Furious'. What did the article say about it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
>>but fleeing cars should be stopped without any regard whatsoever for the occupants. -- L\'escargot.
So your teenage daughter/niece/friend accepts a lift from a friend who's friend has a car. He takes off when he spots the Police as the car isn't MOT'd. The police can do ANYTHING to stop it without regard to the occupants? And you'd be fine with any deaths/injuries to the occupants? Let's have a reality check shall we?
|
A few years ago I heard what sounded like a brief, intense burst of gunfire. A little later walking down the road, I saw a big black SUV with three flat tyres and its doors open, behind police tapes under the motorway among the shops. The rear window was crazed and had quite a lot of small holes all over it. There was no sign of any blood or anything like that. I asked a copper standing nearby whether I had heard firing. He giggled and said no, there hadn't been any firing.
What could it have been then, I have wondered ever since.
|
Driving a car recklessly can, in some circumstances, be akin to randomly firng of a loaded gun in the same location.
The police have to act. The results are often sad.
To cure this we need:
Better education, better facilities for kids and young people in poor areas so that they have somewhere to go and something to do.
Absolutely zero tollerance to drugs and drinks both with the takers and the sellers.
But this costs money - higher taxes anyone?
|
|
|
If the police want to chase my car if it's stolen, then it is their perogative. Personally I don't care. A broken steering lock would probably write the car off, so why care? It is insured. (Actually, it probably isn't insured, as the payout would be less than the increase in insurance, but that's another matter.)
|
"better facilities for kids and young people in poor areas so that they have somewhere to go and something to do. "
I don't agree with that. We always found things to amuse ourselves without resorting to crime.
The deterrents are not strong enough. I would build more prisons and lock them up.
|
We always found things to amuse ourselves without resorting to crime.
I agree. I grew up on a council estate with major social/crime problems and it makes my blood boil when people use poverty or "lack of things to do" as an excuse for kids getting into crime.
We had no youth clubs or influx of government cash. We found stuff to do that didn't involve thieving or abusing/attacking people, or causing a public nuisance. The difference I think was that our parents didn't turf us out on the streets to do our own thing. If we wanted to stay in, we could.
Parenting is the issue. The only slight liberal leaning I have is that most of the time it's not the kids fault - they don't stand a chance. However, persistent offenders should be locked up. The majority's interest (the community) comes above the minority (the offender). I would like to see parents held to account though, and held financially and criminally liable for their kids activity. It would change parental attitudes for all but the hardcore minority overnight!
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
|
"I would like to see parents held to account though, and held financially and criminally liable for their kids activity. It would change parental attitudes for all but the hardcore minority overnight!
"
Agreed but:
many parents may be on Social Security/ dole so financial penalties = zero.
My answer to that is to change society ethos. Social Security is not a right but a benefit. Crime etc repeated means you lose entitlement. I suspect many could not cope and would die..
Plus at present the prisons are overflowing and the Parole Service cannot cope.
I suspect it will take another 20,000 prisoners to make a serious difference... 25% more prisons....
madf
|
Aren't the vast majority of people injured and/or killed during police pursuits the scroats themselves? I can't say I am that bothered by them, though I suspect some are youths larking about with their mates in the passenger seats along for the ride. Clearly if a bystander is injured, that is unacceptable. Surely the rules should be exactly the same as for ambulances, fire engines, and police cars answering a call.
It seems to me that the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Apparently they will not pursue motorcycles, even if stolen, due I think to the danger to the rider, and the consequent risk of prosecution if the rider comes off.
I would have thought that one approach would be to follow them from the skies above. Helicopters would be too expensive, except for special cases. But there are remotely controlled vehicles that could do the job at a fraction of the cost of a helicopter. The device would be invisible to the scroats, due to being small and high, and making little noise. Once the scroats had come to a stop, the police could block exits to the area, and then pursue on foot. I would not be surprised if it had not been considered.
|
"I suspect many could not cope and would die."
But not before becoming accomplished thieves, unfortunately. Prison doesn't work very well, really - it just defers the problem.
|
But it does provide a respite, albeit temporarily, to suffering communities. On my old estate you could actually tell when certain individuals were arrested and locked up, and subsequently released by the amount of joyriding or vandalism going on.
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
|
Zero tolerance is the only answer. The TV programmes showing these car chases nearly always end with the presenter stating in a stern voice that the offender was given one hundred hours community service. Or in really serious cases he was given a three month prison sentence and banned from driving for 12 months.
Big deal when usually they hadnt got a licence anyway and prison is just a holiday to meet up with their old mates.
A prison sentence should be mandatory with no discretion by the Magistrate or Judge.
And Prisons should be as they were some 50 years ago where nobody wished to go back.
Problem solved....
wemyss
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
