|
Well summed up Avant.
|
I like the white socks, Avant. ;-)
--
|
|
|
|
" How interesting that so many Backroomers - motoring enthusiasts all I assume - are anti the Mini, etc.etc.etc. "
Hello Avant.
Insert Smiley here. I think you should know that backroomers are otherwise known as the Mondeo TDCi fanclub, and or the anti-BMW brigade. MINI is part of BMW so it equates to anti-MINI.
Seriously though, for sure, everyone other than most backroomers is an individual and chooses their car because they like it for whatever reason. I personally don't care what anyone thinks about my car choice. I buy with my money what I want to drive. Sorry, it is not a MINI, though. Even so, I do like their look and style and air of quality even if it is a deception according to backroomers above.
|
For someone who joined up three weeks ago you're very quick to make opinions on other backroomers ;-) <----- now that's a smily (and an arrow for good measure)
Chris
|
" For someone who joined up three weeks ago you're very quick to make opinions on other backroomers ;-) etc.etc.etc. "
Hello Chris.
Sorry if I am treading on your toes as a newcomer. I have been lurking for a long time and do know that you lot like Mondeos. Is that not true, then? If you like, in future, I will ask your permission before making my opinion known ;-) ;-) ;-)
I copied & pasted your smiley there three times for good measure.
|
|
Its frequently a bit cliquey here - reason I left alone for a few months, that and some travelling...same old story, the 'experts' give vent and mere mortals are expected to accept all comments as wisdom and criticism as fact.
|
Its frequently a bit cliquey here -
Start your own clique! Nothing wrong with a clique of one.
|
|
|
|
|
I think the BMW Mini MKI and now MKII are well received. Okay cars but the public seem to be putting them on a pedestal so to speak.
But BMW did offer the servicing package despite the engine and now it seems transmission not being the best. The new new Mini (i.e. the MkII) probably has addressed some problems then like engines, transmissions, etc.
If only FIAT would bring the cheaper 500's here. They would make a killing. Unless the Polish factory is unable to produce too many right had drives?
|
|
|
>>whereas most journalists and testers rave about it
But, why would we pay any **special** attention to these people? Surely real experience as posted on threads like this is much more valuable for those who aren't followers of the herd.
Number_Cruncher
|
|
I really like the look, especially earlier ones, but to be a passenger in one is awful, it's like riding on a Clarke pallet truck.
|
|
I've only done it after few sherries. Passenger not drive a pallet truck !
|
I am not 'anti' Mini, "it is what it is". Hats off to BMW for pulling off such good marketing. I work in the industry and find the Mini an interesting car. Its nothing special, but BMW hit the market with a small retro-style fashion car at just the right time. From a technical perspecitve it is very average, but they have managed to endow it with a premium aura and price. Pity Rover could not have pulled it off a couple of years earlier.
I cannot explain why motoring journalists rave about it (if indeed they do - I don't read the consumer mags much, other than What Car? in the dentist's waiting room).
|
|
|
|
>>whereas most journalists and testers rave about it But why would we pay any **special** attention to these people?
Because they drive a lot of different cars, and because they know more than I do.
Like Avant, I'm a bit surprised that people here are so negative. Back in March 2002, HJ wrote "The MINI Cooper is the most fun car to drive there is." The fact that so many backroomers seem to disagree is, at the very least, interesting.
By they way, where is Lee to give us his take on this?
(FWIW I've never driven one, and never considered buying one, so this is purely of academic interest to me.)
|
"How interesting that so many Backroomers - motoring enthusiasts all I assume - are anti the Mini, whereas most journalists and testers rave about it..."
Explained simply by the fact the journalists only experience the car for a very short period of time - sometimes only a few hours. This is not, IMO, a sufficiently long enough period of time to formulate a valuable view.
|
"How interesting that so many Backroomers - motoring enthusiasts all I assume - are anti the Mini whereas most journalists and testers rave about it..."
and for some u/k reason most journalists rave about out and out handling, whereas some of us like good handling, but also want some comfort and are willing to compromise to get it
|
I think a Mini Cooper IS great fun to drive. However, I had to travel from the Midlands to Richmond and back in one a couple of years ago and that kind of put me off - the ride/handling compromise is not good, its noisy and basically tiring on anything above 30 miles. Horses for courses really. For blasting around on local journeys there would be no problem.
My thoughts are that there is nothing a standard Mini does that a Suzuki Swift 1.5 can't do for a lot less money. Better engine, more room, more practical, more comfortable and handles as well. But fashion's not about logic, is it?
My wife recently bought some very expensive 'designer' Court shoes. They look uncomfortable and were terribly poor value (cost £150 to buy and probably made in Vietnam for £2). However she likes the look of them and they have a designer name on them - job done as far as she is concerned.
|
|
|
Sorry Westpig, I didn't see your post before I went on to make fundamentally the same point further down.
Number_Cruncher
|
|
|
|
|
>>Because they drive a lot of different cars
Yes, but does that make their opinion of them any more valid? They may easily mis-judge ever car they drive! Are they looking for the same things you would look for? As an example, after many years of cars on-limit handling being assesed by these experts on airfields, we have many cars coming equipped with silly low profile tyres to make the handling seem more responsive. Is that really what we all want?
>>and because they know more than I do.
Tyro, I think you're doing yourself a dis-service here, and perhaps you are also being over deferent. They may know about presenting good copy for their editors, they may know about the skills of TV presentation, but I don't think they are worlds apart in their knowledge of cars than the average enthusiastic member of the backroom. There are some notable exceptions - HJ for example must at least poke his nose into the odd workshop to be able to put together his replies in the DT column.
Number_Cruncher
|
Because they drive a lot of different cars
...and eat a lot of dinners paid for by car companies
|
Well marketed, no, VERRRY well marketed!
Over priced, ditto!
When Mrs V was allowed her first ever NEW car, 4 years back, we looked in the MINI showroom, helpful, informative FEMALE & young sales staff. No demo available, other than used stock, but look at the display models & wasn't impressed.
Even less impressed, regarding the amount you spend to personalise it!! This is where owners fail to recognise the amazing residuals, aren't quite so clever! The £600 of toys never comes back to you, when you swap it in!!
So the result was a top of the shop, limited edition Montana Mx5, which already had loads of 'extras', plus another £2000 worth from the options list, a LL FOR MUCH LESS THAN A mini!
& a better package all round!
VB
|
|
|
...and eat a lot of dinners paid for by car companies
Nail on head there I suspect.
Of the motoring journos that I have read over the years, very few have really held my respect. The Car legends of many years ago would be the exception, the late and great Messrs Setright, Bulgin, Llewellyn and Bishop. Bulgin was one of the first writers that seemed genuinely enthusiastic about Japanese cars and methodology; Setright could extend your vocabulary and knowledge of motoring physics in the same column; Llewellyn and Bishop were just great to read. There doesn't seem to be a single magazine on the market that offers what Car used to offer. Car itself seemed to die in spirit when Top Gear magazine was launched, forcing Car into mimicking TG's style and an endless cycle of redesigns.
Sorry, gone right off topic. Erm, the Mini. Great marketing trick, but also a product that was launched at exactly the right time - into a booming economy with rising disposable incomes and cheap credit, just the circumstances that such a fashionable yet relatively impractical and overpriced car needed. Superb timing, well-executed product.
|
|
Agree with your points, bristol (ooh er!) about Car. Of the printed mags these days, some of the Autocar writers seem the best of a bad bunch. I am thinking of Cropley, Bremner and Goodwin, biut the magazine as a whole is still too far removed from reality IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
