Hi guys i am new to the forum and would like some advice. I own a 2005 mondeo zetec s 2.0 tdci hatch which i bought from new. The car has done 56000 miles from new and has been fully maintained by my local ford dealer.
A week ago last monday (20th) i started her up after doing a 30 mile motorway run and then i was in a meeting for an hour, so she was still relatively warm and she was spluttering at around 500 rpm,couldnt rev it, smokin very very lump, smelt of diesel, so very quickly turned her off. tried again after and then the same problem again no throttle response etc. Had to get recovery at my expense back to dealers.
So i hired a car as their initial thoughts were fuel contamination, they tried a different tank of derv and she still wouldnt run, then they had to wait for some engine updates and as they not a massive dealership some guy had to come from there main branch.
So this morning he presents me with a cup of green coloured liquid and said its contamination, look at those tiny little particles in the fuel, he said they were going to reprogramme and drain the tank (after they had already done this once). I questioned that the fuel filter was at fault as surely it was its job to stop these black particles reaching the engine, anyway i left him to it and said i would be back at 4 to see what the problem was.
At 3:30 i get a call from the girl on the service desk saying its not good news, the "head is cracked" i asked her what caused this and she basically said driving too fast or long motorway runs, i explained i need my car for business use, therefore it is of no benefit to me to abuse it. Anyway i arrive at 4 and talk straight to the mechanic, who showed me the cracks, i showed the girl from the desk the problem, she said the service manager is coming in the morning to get a fuel sample analysed, i explained this should be under warranty she says talk to this guy tomorrow etc, etc blah blah. So i took a sample of derv from my car just in case things get hairy, i can then get an independant analysis.
Please see the following page forn pics of the damage, i have highlighted the issues in green, let me know what you guys think about this, the car showed no faults before this happened it just came up.
www.putfile.com/andymarshal/images/141693
Thanks for any help in advance
Andy
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Andy
Something smells very fishy here. This "contaminated fuel" tale is appearing far too often from Ford dealers - almost a knee-jerk reaction to any TDCi issue. [A nice way to side-step any warranty liability...?]
Whatever the merits of that; I can't see how some minor cracks in the cam bridges [albeit very suspicious when taken with the sheared bolt] could have any bearing on your running fault.
Keep your wits about you - this has all the appearances of a very well-rehearsed stitch-up.
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I'd be interested to hear how contaminated fuel damages a head. Oh, of course, 'driving too fast or long motorway runs'. So, a Mondeo isn't suitable for a UK motorway. Silly me. The autobahns of Grmany must be littered with them.
JS
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when you go back, record them speaking with your mobile phone if you can. Just the audio you don't have to point the lens at them. They sound like idiots. How can driving too fast cause this? How can black bits crack a head?
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Hmm, sheared bolt at one end and no crack at the other end? Perhaps the sheared bolt resulted in excessive play in the rod causing the cracks at the mounting holes.
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Sounds like they are, as others have said, fobbing you off. I'd go straight to the branch manager and explain what's happened and say you don't except what you've been told and you will, if needed, take the car elsewhere for an independant inspection. I would also talk to your local Trading Standards and brief them.
Make it clear to the manager that you expect the car to be repaired under warranty and explain you have a sample of fuel and will have that examined (at their expense) if they won't sort the car out. The car is out of its 1 year manufactures warranty so I believe the dealer has to cover the cost rather than claiming it back, not sure. Perhaps this is why there trying to get out of it?
I'm sure once you've had a word with them, they'll know your not just going to roll over and pay up.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
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Thanks for the replies chaps, i will let you know what happens tomorrow. Im no mechanic myself but i did figure that fuel contamination should nt cause that, the ars been a ball ache, new clutch and flywheel, new engine pulley, electric windows not working but this is the biggie. what would cause these cracks, i concluded that the bolt had broke, causing the others to work loose over 54000 miles an then being loose the whole thing just gave up.
There is no way im paying for it, thats why i took my own fuel sample just incse things get messy, i would say the cost may run into a couple of grand, i also want ford to provide me a car of the same size while mine is being repaired as the part takes around 6 weeks according to the dealers
Andy
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That's absolutely ludicrous! How a dealer can talk such nonsense absolutely amazes me! Certainly not the first time I've read on this forum about cracked heads on Ford TDCi engines. I even got shouted/laughed out of one thread for my "biased" opinions against Fords, but any car that suffers major mechanical failure at 2 years old, and at reasonably low mileage, cannot have been properly built/engineered in the first place, despite claims of "better than VW" build quality often shouted by posters on here.
And to patronise you by suggesting it's your own fault for driving "too fast" and "too long" on the motorway leaves me speechless. A fuel contamination involving water or dirt particules should be removed by the filter. If they somehow made it through and caused catastrophic engine damage(!!), you'd be paying for a CR-pump (likewise if you'd filled it up with petrol and started it). Certainly not a cracked head. If they refuse to cover 100% of the cost, I'd be considering my legal options.
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Well I am astonished & I hope you keep us up to date, " cracks due to fuel contamination" it took me five minuets to pick myself up of the floor from laughing!. Stress more like from iether overheating or possible valve contact with pistons at sometime or dowl holes too tight for dowls causing stress. have you contacted an engine remanufacturer to see if they have had any dealings with these engines & come across cracks on the cam caps. Fuel contamination if really bad may cause a combustion problem with cracks internally in combustion area or piston but it would have to be pretty dramatic. This cop out by fuel contamination is becoming serious & needs addressing in the trade.
Good luck in the next day or so & lets hope you hear good news.
Once done I would change ford dealer, they don't deserve your servicing causing all that stress.
Doc
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Ok thanks for replies, they have pretty much admitted that it is a warranty claim, however i dont trust them so i will keep you informed of the problems to follow, i am currently in talks woth ford about a courtesy car, as early estimates predict a 4 week repair time. Would it be better for tem to replace the whole engine? they seem to think changing the head will fix it but i dont think it will ever be the same again, mayve there are other components that are damaged that they wont change?
Thanks for all youre help and i will kep you posted.
Andy
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You're pretty lucky you haven't gone over 60K miles and therefore been out of warranty - getting Ford to pay would probably have been impossible.
I wonder if the dealer would write down the 'driven too fast and too long' comment - you could reject the car as not being fit for purpose then!
Be interesting to know how you get on with a courtesy car - a couple of years ago I had a leased 406 off the road for a month. The dealer said they didn't want to tie up a courtesy car for a month, the lease company said 'tough - your company won't pay the optional replacement car fee' - eventually Peugeot sent me a demo 605 (which I quite liked!).
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A friend of mine bought one of these diesel Mondeos in 2004 brand new from the Ford main dealer in Leicester. It was bought on the premise of being good to tow his caravan. It was quite the most unreliable car I've ever come across and spent more time in the dealer service bay than with him. I think the first year is a proper Ford warranty, but the subsequent years are via a sort of insurance scheme and the dealers are a lot tougher on the claims, according to what he was told. He had to have a new clutch which the warranty would not cover and it cost something insane like £1000, I don't remember the exact figure but definitely in that ball park. Definitely cars to avoid.
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The TDCI's are great when working but the repair cost can be unacceptable with items such as injectors etc. I know of more than one fleet manager that has banned all Ford diesels due to a multitude of issues that Ford are unwilling to be accountable for. The Duratec petrol engine is a much safer bet if you are in the market for a Mondeo (not the SCI) just a standard petrol model. These TDCI engines are not fit for purpose - avoid at all costs. Ford need to be made accountable for issues like this.
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As it's had previous work done, what's the likelyhood of the engine being suspended "inappropriately" while the clutch was done?
I know nothing of this engine, or it's installation in the Mondeo, but years ago there were engines about you could happily lift by temporary lugs bolted on the cylinder head.
I doubt this engine is intended to be mauled about like that... just a thought.
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Have a look on this site www.fordmondeo.org/forum/index.php? click forums and look for your model on headings - a lot of TDCI have problems - your problem may have been flagged up before
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Sambostrat
Please see my post of today 14.11.07 Artjo - story sounds very familiar
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how can contaminated fuel crack the head in that place, and how can it take 4 weeks to fit a new head, its a 5 hour job max.
and i thought citroen dealers were crap
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only have one if on full repairing lease.....
otherwise buy petrol 2l model
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I know this is old hat to you, but had to reply to this thread.
I own a lease Mondeo III TDiC 2.0liter 130 bhp 2004 (04 plate) from new. I drive a mix of motorway & town 70/30% and it's always been serviced by the local ford dealer on behalf of the lease company.
At 12000 miles approx the car went in for it's first service, when it came out there was a slight whine from the turbo but fords said it was ok (prior to the service there was no whine). At 23500 miles coming back from a job (70 miles from home) the engine blow. After the garage got the recovered vehicle they found one of the seals that separate the sump oil that cools the turbo had gone and let sump oil get into the compression side of the turbo. This inturn was vaporised and drawn into the cylinders where it burnt like diesel fuel. The car ran with no ignition key in the car when I broke down and was on the hard shoulder, I had to put it into 2nd gear and dump the clutch to make the car stall.
The result was the turbo blowing out, was that the engine burned it's own sump oil for a minute or less and ford wrote the engine off. After a 12 week delay they shipped a new engine and because it was less than 2 years old replaced it under warranty. The garage said 12 week delay was because ford had to order a new engine from scratch. Once fitted the car was ok except the garage did not connect any cruise control which was working before.
Now the good bit.
2 weeks ago I was going to a job and the heater went cold and I pulled into a service station and topped up the expansion tank with water, which was empty, then 100 miles later the same thing again. I booked it in and they said a gap was available in 4 days.
The car started using water at around 2 liters per 70 miles.
It went in and I told them the problem, they removed the head and sent it out for checking and this week they told me they have ordered a new head because the old one (that had done just over 25000 miles) has cracks from the water system to the exhaust ports.
.*******
I know this does not help anyone but I'm wondering if there is a problem
with TDiC 2.0 130 BHP engines?
john
Edited by viiiper on 25/02/2008 at 17:55
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oh nice fender you got there in the other pics ( couldnt help looking)
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Looking at the pics, it's the mouting faces and stud holes for the camshaft retaining caps that have cracked.
There is NO WAY contaminated fuel would cause that.
It is a) a faulty head casting b) bad assembly (over- or undertightening at the factory)
It's a warranty job, no question. Those parts should never fail in service.
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