A slight cause for optimism is that the car idles and runs more or less normally, perhaps a little more noise and perhaps a bit down on power.
It may be harder to spot with a six cylinder engine, but my experience of broken piston rings is that the engine will have a slight miss at idle and a non-standard exhaust beat. It will seem to run more normally at higher revs but will be distinctly down on power and will run a bit hot.
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'A less fashionable car could be bought for similar money with about 20k miles on the clock. (I did it).'
you are right 659
for £500 more he could have purchased a brand new vectra !!!!
how much fun would that have been?
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for £500 more he could have purchased a brand new vectra !!!! how much fun would that have been?
No fun at all; but at least he'd know why it smoked so much.
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I thought you might appreciate the latest news on this.
My colleague cancelled his trip to the Lakes to deal with the car, & save some money for the repair.
The car has been thoroughly inspected at a BMW specialist. A compression test and internal inspection of the engine cylinders has been done using a probe. On number 2 cylinder the top of the piston has cracked and broken and a small piece of alloy is floating about in the cylinder. Apparently this is not an unheard of problem with higher mileage engine.
The repair is not cheap. Either getting a used engine or repairing the old one will cost £2000+ due to the cost of parts an labour. He is going the used engine route, although it is a leap of faith because none of the used engine suppliers will refund fitting labour if the engine turns out to be a dud. The recommendation is to fit a new radiator, water pump and thermostat when the job is done. As well as new filters and plugs and so on. So it all gets very major, cost-wise.
I am sure that there's a moral to this story, but I'm not sure what it is!
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I am sure that there's a moral to this story but I'm not sure what it is!
It it too obvious to say that it sounds like the moral is not to put he put the best part of £10K into a car with 140,000 miles on the clock?
The same sort of money would have bought a 3.0litre Mondeo with about 30,000 miles under its wheels. Maybe not quite as much fun for an enthusiastic driver, but much less likely to generate huge bills
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>I am sure that there's a moral to this story but I'm not sure what it is!
The moral is don't risk what you can't afford. Shelling out £10k-ish with no come-back, no warranty etc. is high risk, whether it's on a BMW or a Skoda. I either spend up to £950 on a car, privately, or I spend £5k or above at a dealer that can warrant their sales.
There will have been plenty of good dealers out there who will have taken his £10k and been able to back it up if it failed.
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Poor devil cancelling a holiday because he spent every last penny he had on a premium car that had been round the world six times that he cannot really afford to run. Moral: don't live beyond your resources.
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Nobody has mentioned he has a claim against the seller for a total refund not as hard as think to get if you use the correct method.
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AB - expand on this? Private seller, remember, and the fault occurred a month after purchase.
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AB - expand on this?
Maybe the 'pair of pliers and a blowtorch' method :-)
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Re. the above comment about a refund. Can you claim against a private seller? I'm sure if there was a way then my colleague would be interested to know. The fault occured about a month after he bought it and he did about 1000 miles in that time.
The car is absolutely immaculate with leather interior and has a FSH which he why he paid the price. I do know that he spent quite a few months looking for one and visited various dealers. I think the dealers wanted a fair bit more that this private seller. The chap is no fool, I think he was just unlucky with the engine.
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The same laws apply to private sellers as trades people it must be as described and of merchantable quality fit for the the purpose as a motor car.
See a solictor and claim for the cost of repair also check thoroughly that the seller was not a trader working from home.As said above it is easy to mask this problem for a short time and is more than likely the reason for sale. It amazes me that the buyer has not even contacted the seller.
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>As said above it is easy to mask this problem for a short time and is more than likely the reason for sale
But proving it could be impossible?
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Doesn't have to prove it the fact the engine disintergrated in such a short period after purchase proves that it was not of mechantable quality.
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Doesn't have to prove it the fact the engine disintergrated in such a short period after purchase proves that it was not of mechantable quality.
there is no court in the land could catagorically say that the vendor of the bm knew this problem was going to occur its down to the purchaser he saw he bought he spewed its called life
maybe with hindsight an aftermarket warranty or even a trip to a dealer of hellish large mileage bmw"s should have been the way to go
toodle pip.
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>> or even a trip to a dealer of hellish large mileage bmw"s should have been the way to go
Is 140,000 miles a hellish high mileage for a BMW? I thought these cars were only just run in at 100,000 ?
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Phone call to local consumer protection office has got us the information that there is no liability on the private seller. Its sold as seen if you buy privately unless obviously misdescribed. I suppose in 1 month and 1000 miles the engine could have been overrevved or run on the wrong fuel etc so proving anything against the seller would be impossible.
I don't think that the problem was masked. A bit of metal has physically broken free from the top of the piston and the BMW specialist does not think that could have been covered up at the time of sale. Just bad luck it seems.
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You have been informed incorrectly I have just spoken to our trading standards and they say you would get at least half cost of repair back and pointed me to this piece of consumer legilation regarding private car sales.
"You have fewer legal rights if you buy privately. The car must be as described, but the other rules don't apply. If a private seller lies about the condition of a car, you can sue for your losses - if you can find the seller"
Its the condition of the car that is the crucial part if it was described in writing or verbally as in good condition or what ever then you have a claim but if you want to give up at the first hurdle its your perogative it will cost you next to nothing in the smalls claims court.But why not talk to the seller first and come to an amicable agreement.
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Andy, have you ever sold a car privately? Would you really entertain a buyer turning up on your doorstep five months after a sale complaining that the engine had blown? "Sure", you say, "just send me the bill for the repair and I'll re-imburse you".
Of course, if you said nothing about the condition of the car in an advert - just the bare facts - then presumably you'd be ok....
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>>Its the condition of the car that is the crucial part if it was described in
>>writing or verbally as in good condition or what ever then you have a claim
But Andy, it WAS in good condition. The only possible claim against the seller would be if the seller wrote 'in good condition and the car is warranted not blow a cylinder within six months of purchase.'
For a private sale, sold as seen and described.
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No it wasn't in good condition a car in good condition lasts more than a month without blowing the engine up.Like I said if they don't want to try to get any recompence the seller will be laughing all the way to the bank not only has he shifted a lemon but an overpriced one at that.
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Assuming of curse the seller was guilty(!)
Could it be a flood victim (engine sucking up water at some point during th floods)?
Had the last owner had the car long? Maybe the last dealer that serviced the car could check if there had been any problems noted.
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You are correct there Shaz typical water ingress result.
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A fault that appears quite literally inside the engine really can not have been foreseen by the vendor. A civil court could not be convinced that the seller knew anything about the fault, IMHO. The high chance of losing the case would just be good money after bad.
All the owner can hope is that the cost of repair is such that he's still about on a par with a dealer purchase, and perhaps with a much younger engine in it.
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So Andy, you're psychic as well as your other skills.
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So you would take it lying down put it down to experience,cost next to nothing in the small claims court but the guy is not interested I would have been round his house with a short and curly stretcher and so would most people.and as far as being psychic the damage is one of the results that CAN occur by sucking water into the inlet manifold.
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Back in May I sold my Nissan QX to another poster on here. The car was in great condition, well looked after and never a moments bother, so he got a good car. However, as far as I am concerned once he drove away any subsequent problems were his. I think it is the same with any private sale and this was confirmed by my colleagues call to Leicester Consumer Advice centre this morning. If my buyer had come back a month later with an extra 1000 miles on the clock and ask me for a rebuilt engine then (nice chap as he is) he would have got short shrift. How do I know what's happened in that 1000 miles HE could have driven it through a flood. I think there would be ZERO chance of a refund from the seller and going around to someones house threatening is just going to give more grief. If there is a blatant misdescription then thats one thing, but an unpredictable internal engine failure is not the sellers fault.
Anyway, the BMW specialist said that this is not an unheard of problem on this engine because the top ring is very close to the top of the piston and so the piston is weak in that area. Apparently the seller is local restaurant owner and had had the car for a couple of years and it was serviced by BMW not long before purchase, so it has a good history.
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>>I would have been round his house with a short and curly stretcher
So as well as bringing a frivolous claim in the courts, you fancy a gaol sentence for GBH?
Somebody remind me not to sell a car to Andy.
On the other hand, Andy, if you've a car for sale, I'd be delighted to buy it from you. In exchange for that sort of warranty I'll cheerfully pay you £500 more than you want for the car.
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Only just come upon this thread - but if OP requires second opinion, or a good independent in Leics, try
Euro-Cars Loughborough
Unit N Little Moor Lane
Loughborough Leicestershire LE11 1SF
Tel: 01509 264271
Give them a ring - I have always found them extremely friendly, helpful, reasonably priced, very competent and they are open all day Saturday. The 2 mechanics are Jack and Dilip, and I am pretty sure that Jack runs a BMW 5 series himself -
--
Phil
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>would have been round his house with a short and curly stretcher
Andy - you are full of something brown and smelly.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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>The same laws apply to private sellers
No it doesent.
>of merchantable quality fit for the the purpose as a motor car.
It was sold with 140k on the clock.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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It it too obvious to say that it sounds like the moral is not to put he put the best part of £10K into a car with 140 000 miles on the clock?
Yes. The repair is expensive becuase it's a BMW - the moral is not to buy a car you cannot afford to repair.
I would not have thought the faliure can be attributed to mileage any more than age or indeed one of those things, people have had many replacement engines in various BMW's over the year well within the original warranty period.
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I would not have thought the faliure can be attributed to mileage any more than age
I would think it can be. Things wear out, its a fact of life, even on a BMW. Older engines go wrong more often than new ones - fatigue, cracking, work-hardening. Even I'm wearing out!
Incidentally, the OP should be aware that not all 330i/530i engines are the same - there are subtle year-to-year differences and the engine must be correct for the engine management system (software, hardware changes etc). I've not explained it well - but basically don't assume 100% interchangability. It is not as simple as that.
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I would think it can be. Things wear out its a fact of life even on a BMW. Older engines go wrong more often than new ones - fatigue cracking work-hardening. Even I'm wearing out!
Oh I completely agree. But are you wearing out becuase you are getting old or becuase you've run around lots :)
Lots of cold starts and short trips are just as bad, if not more so, than lots of long trips with the engine up to temperature but will of course result in a much lower mileage and thus higher value car which, IMHO, has just the same chance of a faliure. Perhaps even more so.
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this car has a bmw service history and was recently serviced. It might be worth contacting some of the servicing dealers to see if you can get a copy of the bills.If youve paid for a service they will stamp the book whatever the condition of the vehicle.However there will be a box itemising any additional work required or reccomended on the bill. I have known many people decide to sell their car privately when the've been told the're in for some major expense soon,and there are some wonderfull liqiud remedies for all sorts of problems available.
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Thought people might be interested in how this turned out.
The BMW was eventually repaired with a secondhand engine and made it back onto the road about ten days ago. Total cost of repair (secondhand engine & labour) was about £2500. The BMW specialist had some trouble sourcing the correct engine. There are a number of variants of the 3.0 engine - they all appear the same but mate up with different ECU's that have slightly different software and other minor differences. It seems BMW make minor changes almost every year, although they are not obvious. The first secondhand engine that was supplied was itself faulty and so there was a delay whilst it was returned and another one located. The BMW specialist reckoned that these engines can start to give big trouble anytime after about 120k (oil burning , cracked pistons and cracked heads). He had another similar car in the workshop that had had a repalcement head, but the customer was in dispute over the repair cost and so he was holding onto the car!!
Incidentally, this was a FBMWSH car that had a RAC inspection before my colleague bought it. The RAC will not accept liability for this sort of fault because they say that the fault cannot be detected without dismantling.
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thanks for the update
remind friend to advise swansea of engine number change or it could affect a future insurance claim
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