Not true. If they wish to employ a fitter he must be CORGI but they are permitted to do it themselves.
As I understood it, anyone can do the fitting, but before the supply is turned on it must be inspected by a CORGI engineer. Something to do with flux eating away at copper pipe and causing gas leaks?
Not true. Under Part P of the Building Regs you are at liberty to do the work yourself in conjunction with the local Building Inspector.
Mapmaker's right - minor work doesn't need reporting under part-P, such as adding a new point on a spur from an existing circuit, but major work, and kitchen/bathroom work does - however this can be installed by anyone, then reported to a building inspector. Easy to get out of - just say the work was completed prior to the implementation of part-P!
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No, GregSwain, you do not need a CORGI. Installing a new boiler is subject to building regs and will cost you £130 for an inspection if you are not a CORGI. Like all information on the internet, this may or may not be true, if somebody has a copy of the relevant journal they may be able to confirm, but here is a letter from CORGI themselves:
www.extra.rdg.ac.uk/wkc1/DIY/gas/msg00038.html
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No GregSwain you do not need a CORGI.
Fair enough, but at that price it'd probably be cheaper to get a CORGI out to commission the boiler anyway! Anyway, we're agreed that gas-fitting isn't an engineer-only task.
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>>it'd probably be cheaper to get a CORGI out to commission the boiler anyway!
Maybe. But only if you could find one who was prepared to commission the boiler, having not installed it himself. Not that easy to achieve.
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Some of these people are frightful carphounds who get in with cheeky builders and rampage through your house condemning every piece of gas equipment they see. Damned liberty.
I'm not saying they are all like that, but I get very incensed when people talk rubbish to me and try to blind me with science. Brings out the worst in me and the swear filter gets overwhelmed in seconds.
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I have to say I agree with Lud. B Gas allegedly train their maintenance people to tell you your gas cebtral heating system "does not conform to latest regs " and will have to be replaced in 2 years... for example . ( Apparently that is untrue).
All Ic an say is if for example peops have to go to a dealer and pay £200 to fit an alternator and get it coded (plus the alternator costs) the news will get round and their second hand values will fall.
Are the Japanese fitting Canbust? I believe not...
Buy Japanese or Korean.
madf
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madf
£200 to fit an alternator at the dealers? Not this century. Many are nudging towards £1000 fitted.
CAN-Bus is just a network communications system - everyone will use it soon.
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I am also aware that our local VW dealers will not give a courtesy car when they conduct warranty work or service a car if the car has been purchased from a supermarket previously and not from the dealer - not quite the same but harsh all the same. (They also will not provide a courtesy car when the vehicle is bought from them and is outsude warranty period) and from also talking to family that own VW's I have picked up similar statements from their local VW dealer - they do seem to be trying to play hard ball as it were.
I think someone said previously do not try and put VW and good customer service in the same sentence - it just does not go.
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Last month the touran was serviced by a non VW franchise garage. Service indicator was reset no problem. My lease company will use whatever garage they want and VW has to like it or lump it.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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Last month the touran was serviced by a non VW franchise garage. Service indicator was reset no problem. My lease company will use whatever garage they want and VW has to like it or lump it.
My comment about service indicator was really directed at some recent and forthcoming models (e.g. latest Passat).
For most of the present VAG range on fixed service the service counter can be reset using the trip button and ignition switch (I did one today in fact). On variable servicing you need to connect to the ECU, but still easily do-able with readily availble third-party kit.
I think the point is that in future, for service and repair work, your lease company will not be able to avoid the VW garage - at least that is what VW are planning and that was the point of my post.
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My comment about service indicator was really directed at some recent and forthcoming models (e.g. latest Passat).
>Well, aparantly it is now VAG policy - no reset without showing an official VAG invoice for the >service. It affects '05-on VAG CANbus cars.
It was a post 05 VAG canbus car.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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I am also aware that our local VW dealers will not give a courtesy car
As far as I know, VW dealers are operated by companies independant of VW so make up their rules - at least with VW they do have a fair number of dealers so if you fall out with one there may well be another within easy reach.
The way many dealerships are funded, they make a lot of their money from servicing - so they couldn't really afford to keep losing customers.
I know it's a different franchise, but a few yrs ago a friend of mine inported an Alfa, then had a problem that needed fixing under warranty. He found the Alfa dealer he went to very helpful - as a businessman he was moved to ask why, and the service manager told him that if was awkward to customers who imported their cars then half his business could go away.
I find all dealers have long waits for courtesy cars - both out Honda and Seat are being serviced this week and I booked them in 3 weeks ago. I guess if they needed urgent warranty work then I would probably struggle to get a courtesy car for either of them. But that's been the situation on all the cars I've had for many years.
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Couple of points..
1. I didn't mean to imply that ONLY VW were doing this - I gather quite a few other manufacturers are going/gone down this route and presumably more and more will. The Smart, for example, has to go to a dealer and 'talk back' to the factory. By and large the Japanese seem to me to have been less eager to implement these technologies, possibly because they tend have strong sales in the developing world where there is less dealer support available - that's my impression anyway. But I guess the temptation will be there to introduce it on European market models.
2. In terms of Screwloose's comment about the public wanting 'cheap cars' and dealers making no margin - well, I don't think 'cheap cars' was the main issue - we just didn't want to pay 50% more than the rest of Europe. Our cars are still not cheap against world prices - just look at the price of, say, a Subaru in Australia compared to the UK. Better still, how can a car supermarket buy cars from Maltese dealers and import them to the UK and sell at 25% less than a UK dealer?? I think a problem for the dealers is their business model - which requires that cash be burnt at an incredible rate. In recent years many UK main dealers have been making 6- and 7-figure investments in their sites which seem to be totally illogical and almost reckless, so they (and their customers) are saddled with high costs and tiny profits.
As I've mentioned before, our local VW dealer now has a 'greeter' - this is a lady who's paid about £14k a year and stands near the entrance and smiles at customers as they come in, says 'hello' etc.. The 'Toytota Way' uses 'non-sales' staff to greet customers and give them a brochure, walk them into the showroom etc., then goes to fetch a salesman (the salesmen all congregate in an office away from the showroom). These are techniques that cost a lot of money. The background of course is that the franchised dealer model dates back 60 years to when cars were new and cutting-edge technology and buying a car was equivalent almost to buying a house. Now cars are commodities and the time has probably come for a cheaper and more efficient way to sell and service, but the dealerships have tunnel vision.
3. CAN is a networking technology that was originally developed for machine tools, robots etc (factory automation) in the 1980's. Its inherently fairly simple. CAN does not require that parts are uniquely coded - this is a level of complexity that the manufacturers have added (or will add in the future) for their commercial own reasons.
4. In terms of comparison with CORGI etc. Well, I think some form of licensing/accreditation for automotive technicians would be a great idea. it would improve their standing, provide a framework for professional development and act as lever on performance (i.e. if they mess-up too badly/often then they lose their license). However this is quite different from a manufacturer excercising control over your vehicle, which is largely a commercial matter.
The prognosis for the less affluent private motorist of the future does not look too great. However maybe the cavalry is about to come over the horizon in the form of the Chinese? Maybe there is a gap in the market for cars which are simpler, cheaper and easier to service - the kind of car which the guy earning his modest £25k needs to have to get to work in the morning.
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As I've mentioned before our local VW dealer now has a 'greeter'.... .....but the dealerships have tunnel vision.
I didn't quote the whole paragraph as it would only get snipped, but surely the issue isn't with the dealers, it's the manufacturers who dictate these requirements on dealerships?
Several manufacturers have bought significant numbers of dealerships presumeably at least partly motivated by a desire to protect themselves from the effects of block exemption.
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I didn't quote the whole paragraph as it would only get snipped but surely the issue isn't with the dealers it's the manufacturers who dictate these requirements on dealerships?
Yes, that's largely true. The so-called 'dealer standards' that the manufacturer/importer sets.
I think that the problem is that the model is basically 'broken' and will have to fall apart completely before it can be rebuilt again.
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The so-called 'dealer standards' that the manufacturer/importer sets. I think that the problem is that the model is basically 'broken' and will have to fall apart completely before it can be rebuilt again.
What I don't understand is why that model seems to be a largely UK thing - or at least enforced more rigourously in the UK than elsewhere?
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What I don't understand is why that model seems to be a largely UK thing - or at least enforced more rigourously in the UK than elsewhere?
Well, its not just a UK thing, but is applied differently in the UK for historical reasons. For example in the UK you will nearly always pay the same retail price for the same part number from any dealer in the network - this seems to be established practise. Go to Germany and you'll find that parts prices can vary - the dealer is free to set his mark-up a part, just as the price of a particular CD player can vary from one shop to another. In theory, of course, UK dealers can do this (and the odd one will give a discount) but they normally prefer not to compete with each other. Probably the UK's company car culture has a lot to do with it. In the US and certain European countries, for example, it is possible to do DIY servicing during the warranty period!! A brief look on US car forums will confirm this - the owner just has to keep receipts for the parts purchased. The acceptance of non-dealer servicing during warranty was common in most European countries and Autralia, NZ etc long before the Block Exemption was imposed in UK. Historically the UK car sales/servicing market was very 'soft' and things didn't toughen up until the EU started pressing manufacturers on pricing during the early 1980's (remember those Which? campaigns helping you to import your car from Europe?).
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in reply to mapmaker -
the key phrase in the twaddle that i was talking about was "to do as they wish".
now in the case of cars, you can muck about as you wish and you [mapmaker] can fiddle with the abs lights in your dashboard [as you foolishly mentioned in reply to someone on this forum].
in the case of electrics in the home and gas in the home, you cannot do as you wish - there are laws governing what and how you can muck around as you wish.
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further in reply to mapmaker:
gas in the home - list of things that you may not do as you wish.
www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#2
Qualification and supervision
3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work ...
Materials and workmanship
5. - (1) No person shall install a gas fitting unless ....
General safety precautions
6. - (1) No person shall carry out any work ....
etc. etc.
now, mapmaker, can you find any similar regs which tells you, mapmaker, not to fiddle with abs warning lights?
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www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#2
There's nothing in there which stops a competent home owner from doing their own gas work.
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Dalglish.
I think we established that you could not legally disable the ABS light.
However, there is nothing in the link you posted that states that you may not fiddle with gas unless you are CORGI registered. At least, the word 'CORGI' is not on that link you posted.
There is nothing in the Part P building regs that makes it illegal for an individual to rewire his house.
Your post contained much twaddle - a result of your being bright, very able at googling, but sadly lacking in background knowledge - instead being filled with hearsay and supposition.
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