Hi
Can the UK police / DVLA pursue speeding tickets from 'safety cameras' when they flash a car from another EU country?
Are they able to hold a driver until they pay a fine like the french if plod pulls them in person?
I am specifically thinking of a German reg car.
|
As as I am aware not at the moment Vern. Soon to come out under Road Safety Act is procedure to deal with 'foreigners' in the taking of a road side sum of money equal to FPN or Court fine, but that looks as if it is from a pull.
Devil will be in the detail when it comes out.
Only thing I can see them doing is putting the VRM onto their 'bay guy' database so that further action can be taken if the vehicle is checked or comes up on ANPR.
dvd
|
|
There are provisions under under SOCA for arresting anyone for anything including speeding. So the simple answer is yes.
|
To do that tho PU one has to pull them on the spot. A camera is no good as its 14 days to process facts and by then Jonny Foriegner is away off the island.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
|
|
Anyone can be stopped if the Police have reasonable suspicion that they have committed or are about to commit a crime, and they can be arrested if the Police think the details they have given may not be true. But this is all about making money. It would cost more to arrest them, book them in and get translators and welfare officers than to catch lots of British people.
|
Not Necessarily AE. The foreigner may live here and be driving round in some EU registered car without a valid home country registration, no tax, MOT, insurance or driving licence. Just because they are here it doesn't mean they are leaving ! It is too nice here (for them!) We need to get the ANPR cameras geared up to spotting foreign reg plates and let them enjoy the benefits we enjoy!
|
Not Necessarily AE. The foreigner may live here and be driving round in some EU registered car without a valid home country registration no tax MOT insurance or driving licence.
So how do you track them down? Fixed speed or APNR cameras are no good.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
|
As I said - get the ANPR cameras set up so that they can read all reg numbers. It will never happen but it could if they threw enough money at it!
|
As I said - get the ANPR cameras set up so that they can read all reg numbers. It will never happen but it could if they threw enough money at it!
Yes you did, thats fine. The APNR camera captures my plate and it captures details of my foreighn plate. What next? (bearing in mind I no longer live in Rue de Merde, PAris, PA1, but instead reside in Railway cuttings, east cheam? I never told anyone tho.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
|
I think you and I are drifting a bit here AE! IF the ANPR camera system could be made to recognise all EU plates and you were in the system for speeding or whatever, the next time an ANPR camera spotted you, you could be pulled in 2 miles down the road, and where you lived wouldn't come into it. You would be stopped because of the plate on your car being flagged up in the system. It won't ever happen because there is neither the money, the will or the means to do it but it COULD happen!
|
Ah right. Its the pulling in two miles down the road bit. Hows that going to happen? That requires policemen. We aint got none of them.
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
|
Well that is how it works! The cameras are either logging the time and location of the movements of vehicles in which there is an 'interest' (Terrorists etc) or they are noting passing vehicles without tax, MOT or insurance and the drivers are pulled in , further down the road for a chat, fixed penalty notice or whatever!
|
|
|
Nice one, so as long as I do not take the mick I should be ok to enjoy the V8 S500 Merc on German plates I have for a few days, whoo hoo!!
|
Thames Valley are pursuing the non-UK driver of a UK regd car:
tinyurl.com/2jow63
"The case was initially closed last week when investigating officers accepted the driver could not be traced.
But it has now been reopened and officers are discussing an international summons with the Crown Prosecution Service to return the driver to the UK.
Pc Knight added: "I am seeking to serve a summons on the driver at the address in the European country in which he lives and bring him back to a court in the UK because of the high speed involved."
|
good article Yokel
I like the comment they sneaked at the bottom "Although speed was not a factor in the crash..."
Yet the accident was mentioned 3 times in the article, all of which to give the impression that a speeding car was the cause, and the speeding car caught on camara was likel to do so again.
And given the accident wasn't due to speed, why did the TVSCP still went ahead to reduce the limit and put up a camera. £?
This gives an interesting insight into their thinking (or lack of).
The central reservation works seem highly appropriate, but I'd still like to see more money go into young driver training at off-road facilities. It saves people having to learn the hard way.
my 2p
Ian
|
I'm not sure what the situation with foreign-registered cars currently is in the UK, but I do know (its been reported repeatedly in the Irish news) that moves are afoot to allow the Gardai Siochanan and PSNI exchange traffic offence information.
The aim is that speeding and penatly points offences committed by (say) a NI reg car south of the border can be communicated to the PSNI/DVLA (or whoever the appropriate authority is) so that the driver gets a fine/court summons/points on his licence. Presumably if this can be done between Northern Ireland and the republic, it will also apply to the rest of the UK.
For other cars, surely the solution is simple. Visiting foreign reg cars have to leave the country again, so erect cameras at the ferry ports. Check each car and pull those that flag as being on the system. For the cars that belong to UK residents, an occasional cruise around by local police is in order. This used to happen every so often in local neighbourhoods preferred for student housing here -not only did the police mop up on speeding and parking fines, but they more than paid for their time issuing fines for keeping the cars in Ireland without re-registering them here.
|
|
|
|
My bet is this comes to nothing. Certainly if I received any such notice from a foreign police force I'd instruct my legal representative to tell them I wasn't driving.
If they extradite the person in question I'll eat my hat!
|
It seems to me we either have to persuade the rest of the EU to adopt our legal/motoring "system" (i.e. no requirement to carry ID or other documents; no on-the-spot fines, ever, for anyone; no routine roadblocks by armed police; no random breath-testing or stopping to check ID) or else we change over to a "continental" tradition.
Either we hope that all drivers committing traffic violations in a foreign country get "done", or none of them. Those who most robustly defend our traditions are frequently those who thrash down the autoroute, park without paying, etc. (I'm not even getting into the realm of "drinking culture" here...) once over the channel and then condemn foreign drivers who "get away with it" in the UK.
Which is it to be, then?
|
Which is it to be then?
carry ID (licence at all times)
on-the-spot fines (or points, at least)
routine roadblocks (the Gardai like to call them checkpoints)
random breath-testing
stopping to check ID (and possible points if you fail to produce your licence on the spot.
All introduced in Ireland over the past three years and, just like our smoking ban, coming to a constabulary near you sooner or later.
|
|
|
|
|
And your legal rep would utter the following: "I am instructed to say", which tells the court, if they are awake, that you are fibbing, and that even your rep has doubts. They've heard all the sob-stories. Further particulars may be required.
|
If it was a safety camera then the whole thing gets complicated by the fact to the fixed penalty can only be used if the driver has a UK licence.
So the camera partnership would have to pass the case on the Police who presumeably would say it's more trouble than it's worth.
In the case of the speeding Mini mentioned earlier, they may well suspect that the story they've been given isn't true so they're going the extra mile to get to the bottom of it. This has happened before - notably with the Manchester chartered surveyor who got caught out with his foreign driver storey. It's amazing the resources the Police can muster if they think someone is trying it on.
There certainly are a lot of people driving in the UK with foreign plates - and they're immune from the various camera traps.
Our local news reported that in Manchester some delivery drivers were using foreign registered vehicles to avoid parking fines - so the authorities started clamping them.
|
|
|
And your legal rep would utter the following: "I am instructed to say" which tells
I doubt he would he's in the Cayman Islands. The point is not only would they be stonewalled at the first attempt to place blame at the door of a savvy foreign driver by a flat denial they would then face the impossibility of an extradition for such a trivial matter. In any case as we all know they have no real proof most of the time anyway and rely on the compliance of scared sheep to pay up and do as they are told.
It's complete bunkum and as others have suggested just a publicity stunt.
|
So if I return to live in the UK with my Spanish registered car I'm asbestos suit clad as long as it's road legal and insured in Spain?
Hmm - that would require a trip to Spain every two years to obtain the ITV (Spanish MOT equivalent).
On the subject of returning to the UK with a left hooker - what's the current state of play/costs to get it on UK plates and what mods have to be made?
--
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
|
SNIPQUOTE!
Roger. (Costa del Sol España)
Almost correct, if you're caught bang to rights by an actual traffic police officer then the chances are you may face court in the UK. As most enforcement is done by camera these days you're unlikely to be caught unless you're driving irresponsibly. Of course if you hold driving licences in different countries then any UK ban probably won't affect you very much.
You're correct in assuming the vehicle would need to be taxed and insured in whichever country it is registered in.
Assuming it's from the EU: to register a car in the UK you usually need the EU certficate of conformity. To change the headlights to RHD (stickers aren't acceptable) however if you have Xenons it's usually just a matter of setting them to RHD. Also the fog light needs to be on the opposite side if you only have one. There is no requirement for kph to mph speedo conversion in the MOT, usually your VRO won't ask for proof you've done one either. It's not a costly procedure but I haven't covered it fully here as I don't want to bore people unduly.
I advocate a dual approach to this matter ie I use a foreign registered car in the UK and I use a UK registered car when abroad. All perfectly legally as well I might add. Parking tickets are just thrown in the bin and I never hear anything about speeding tickets. The only time I'm ever stopped I just pay up with a smile and produce my valid non-EU driving licence.
|
|
Dont know if currently deployed ANPR technology can read foreign number plates but the technology exists, I saw a demo about a year ago from a system being developed for congestion charging.
|
|
TfL pursue foreign drivers for the London congestion charge ? or rather they contract the work out to a private company who are incentivised to get the money in. I guess that?s a slightly different kettle of fish to speeding offences etc, as there are no licence issues to deal with.
|
I can reliably report that all TFL's proxy demands made by Intrum Justitia were replied to with a flat denial that the registered car or owner was in the area along with an instruction not to contact ever again or receive a counter claim through British courts for wasted time and legal fees.
Nothing was ever heard from them again and shortly afterwards Intrum Justitia were fired by TFL leaving them effectively toothless against foreign drivers.
The problem is how do you enforce something on people who live where you have no jurisdiction?
The law is toothless in this respect. You can't send bailifs in to seize goods, you can't clamp or tow the car. What you have is a situation where the foreign owner laughs in the face of these unfair charges and rightly so.
|
|
|
Perhaps when DVLA and the police get talking to each other, the paper trail will get a result: www.dvla.gov.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/archive2...x
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
