If someone else (eg friends, relatives etc.) wants to drive my car
[1] Is it my responsibility to ensure they have proper insurance?
[2] Do I have a legal obligation to see proof of their insurance to drive my (any other) car?
[3] If they lie to me that they had cover (while they had not really) and then met an accident with my car, am I liable to be prosecuted?
Thanx
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1. Yes. if you let someone knowingly drive your car without insurance you're in trouble too, not just the driver.
2. no. but probably a good idea to see it.
3. erm...?
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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Sounds like Q.3 isn't hypothetical...
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Yes you could be prosecuted if they deem that you did not make sure he/she was insured by seeing the original insurance document that declared they were permitted to drive a vehicle that did not belong to them and was not hired and third party insurance would apply. Quite a few insurance companies now do not allow DOV ( drive other vehicle ) under 25 years of age and even then you have to request it tis added. Regards Peter
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The offences under Section 143 Road Traffic Axt, 1988 are
(1)Using, or
(2)Causing, or
(3)Permitting
a vehicle to be on a road without third Party insurance in force.
Obviously and in a nutsghell
(1) is where you are driving your own vehicle or in the case of a Company vehicle being used on the firms business, driver and Company both liable where no Insurance in force. (Special defence for employees using a vehicle in ignorance of lack of cover)
(2) Directing someone to drive - no Insurance in force either side
(3) Allowing a vehicle to be driven without Insurance. But a person does not permit if he allows another to use it only ON THE EXPRESS CONDITION that that person would first Insure it. (Newbury v David [1974]
S 143 offence is one of absolute liability. A conviction must follow if it be shown that a defendant used caused or permitted use of a motor vehicle , irrespective of whether he knew or not that the vehicle was uninsured.
In view of the power now for Police to seize uninsured vehicles incurring considerable cost and effort to reclaim, whilst not a requirement at law, it is most prudent for the owner/driver of any vehicle to ensure cover by sight of the certificate as opposed to a verbal assurance that all is in order.
dvd
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I'm always amazed at the ease with which some of my friends have offered the driving seat to others or asked me if I'd like to drive even my mate who has a X5. They seem a bit surprised when I get all pedantic and say I'm not insured (as I have no car myself) personally.
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I'd get them to check with their insurance company before you let them drive. I have fully comp and I checked that I was covered third part before agreeing to drive some friends to the airport in my friends car. I therefore won't drive anything that will cost much if I end up damaging it. I've also borrowed a friends car before, when mine was having work done and it only cost me £9 for a week (on my insurance) or £10 on his. It's not worth taking the risk when you could get insurance so cheap.
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The myths surrounding driving other peoples cars etc. must affect a lot.
Youngest starting to drive and eldest said "When I'm 21 in July I can give some lessons" to which I replied, "err no because Ed won't be insured". He then said something like "but I am and that will cover him when driving my car when I'm a passenger!!!!" Put him straight although he seemed reluctant to believe me. Mind boggles at times.
He also thought there was "special cover" when test driving cars!
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Well, I think I admit to having test driven a car without insurance.
My car nicked. Insurance co told, but insurance not refunded. So still paying for it. Test drove a car. Was I covered under DOC?
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Well, I think I admit to having test driven a car without insurance
If the car is from main dealer, you're covered by their own insurance. Usually they require you to sign a document for test drive (and often will hold you liable for damage upto £500 :)
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I'm always amazed at the amount of people I know who think that just because they are over 25 and fully comp, they can drive any car. Not mine, thanks!
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Same here in the case of my car, except in the still rare case of one of the offspring!
However, it can prove useful in emergencies to use someone else's vehicle, but has to be with the car owner's permission.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Is it possible anywhere to get "any car" personal car insurance ie the same cover whatever you drive?
I remember a friend of mine offering and driving a friend's car in France when we were there and she swore blind she was fully covered - I was not wanting to become all unnecessary but was absolutely sure she was not fully comp covered driving someone else's car overseas. I let it go as my friends always seem to see me as the glass half empty type who always thinks of the barriers first before doing something.
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I would presume that the only "any person" cover would apply to businesses, dealerships etc.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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[1] Is it my responsibility to ensure they have proper insurance? [2] Do I have a legal obligation to see proof of their insurance to drive my (any other) car?
Make it a condition of them borrowing the car that they have proper insurance. Tell them that "Yes, you may borrow my car as long as you have valid insurance". This is a defence against any charge of allowing and permitting. It would be wise to have a witness, or even a signed agreement. It's as simple as that.
[3] If they lie to me that they had cover (while they had not really) and then met an accident with my car am I liable to be prosecuted?
Not if you've done the above.
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My brother has an any car policy, he is a car dealer amongst other things. This covers both him and his wife at a cost of £471 a year which I thought very reasonable. However he is not covered for foreign parts so I had to do all the driving on our recent holiday in France.
MGs
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My brother has an any car policy
(at £471).
There must be more to it than that - the price seems ridiculously low. Is it 3rd party only, or is there a *huge* excess?
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No doubt there is more to it, but I have no further details as to what the terms are. He has a blameless record and many years in the business and, as the rest of us, can only drive one car at a time hence the risk is of course limited. My own insurance is just under £200 - fully comp, herself included, protected NCB, legal cover and including break down cover (Zurich, if anybody is interested), so on that basis comp with a reasonable excess for £471 might be realistic? Certainly he reckons it a good deal and in the course of his business a neglible expense.
MGs
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I switched to Zurich last month - comprehensive for £147 against DirectLine's £187 renewal and with some extra benefits on top.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I switched to Zurich last month - comprehensive for £147 against DirectLine's £187
Premiums are meaningless without knowing the excess on the policy - a few years ago we halved our company car insurance by switching from £250 to £1000 excess.
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[1] Is it my responsibility to ensure they have proper insurance?
Yes
[2] Do I have a legal obligation to see proof of their insurance to drive my (any other) car?
As regard to this, you have to ENSURE that they have proper insurance. I have never offended anyone who wished to borrow my car when asking them to show me their insurance.
[3] If they lie to me that they had cover (while they had not really) and then met an accident with my car am I liable to be prosecuted?
If answer to [2] is carried out this will not be a problem (unless forged documents!!)
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>> [2] Do I have a legal obligation to see proof of their insurance to drive >> my (any other) car? As regard to this you have to ENSURE that they have proper insurance.
No you do not[1]. You merely make their borrowing your car conditional on their having the legal requisites. "You can borrow my car on the condition that you have insurance and are are otherwise properly entitled to drive it".
[1] How would you know, anyway? In this day and age, I am sure I could hand you a "certificate of motor insurance" knocked up on a PC in a few minutes, which would of course be worthless.
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