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Well from my home to the main station (2-3 miles) is nearly £5 each way. So £10 per day or £50pw. Work 48 weeks and its £2400pa. Car therefore cheaper and more convenient. Although with an agreement with a taxi firm it could be a lot cheaper.
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I agree except because we are rural taxis have to come from nearest town so thats 10 quid before we have even started, so we are looking at 20 quid a day.
Not worth it at all.
I reckon if the volvos miles are genuine at 53,000 and there is a servic history with all the work being done, then what have we got to lose?
only got two miles to travel, i will even change oil evetry 3000 miles.
ideal
kush
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"I reckon if the volvos miles are genuine.... then what have we got to lose? only got two miles to travel"
You asked for advice and it seems car cheaper. What is not so sure is the Volvo. And lots think the Polo the better bet. It seems your wife is about to start a stressful, and hopefully well paid job and we are discussing putting her in a banger. I think not.
Apart from wanting her to get home, if I were a patient I'd expect her to be in work on time ;-)
I ended unexpectedly in hospital two weeks ago and was in over night. NHS brilliant then and had some tests since as out patient.
Let your partner drive what she wants/needs?
Question:
- Before the new clinical job in London she drives a Polo
- New job pays as well as before - and might be first position even?
So why trade in Polo? Yes could be scratched but that is fixable. Or am I missing something about Mrs Kush?
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If it were me I Would want to be assured my wife was going to get home quickly and safely, not alone at some deserted railway station trying to start her car after the other commuters had left in their cars.
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Ok there is one thing I have not made clear, This whole thing is the wife's decision.
As the job goes yes it is stressful, but well paid? well lets just say if you wanna make money become a banker or a lawyer not a doctor.
I am sorry you were in hospital two weeks ago and i hope whatever it was was resolved and your health is good now, but the reason you got treated well is because all NHS staff are there because they want to care for their patients.
If the car was to fail, we have got brwakdown cover and if this whole bangernomics thing did not work out then we have only lost 500 quid we could eaqsily walk into a dealership and order another new car.
The fact is we don't really care to much for cars and would rather spend money on other things.
We do not see the point in having money tied up in a car that will do 4 miles a day (2 miles each way)
The volvo does seem to have evry bit of work done to it and if i was in any doubt as to its condition i would walk away.
To be fair i have not been that impressed with reliability of the polo it has already had to have new brake discs and air con compressor who knows what can go wrong as the oil is only changed at variable service intervals.
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It seems you've already made your mind about what your going to do before posting on here.
If the mileage is true, is the reason the Volvos had 'new brakes pipes new rear brake drums exhaust pipe starter motor' because it's been laid up somewhere for a while?
If you really want to change, I just think you can get a newer design (reliability, safety, comfort) for your money.
Chris
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I am really not sure why people on this site have to be so judgemental - It is assumed that he is cheap but why shouldnt he be cheap if he wants to be and all this about an old car not starting and the assumption that his wife will be in danger cos this has happened bemuses me.
Bangernomics is not about buying a banger as such it is about buying an older bit NOT neglected car that will run but might need expensive replacement parts in the future.
If like an earlier poster said the oil and fluids changed regularily and it is given a good blow out once a week why wont this car start.
Snobs the lot of you
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The problem with Bangernomics is that, whilst in theory its fantastic, in reality it involves driving around in old sheds.
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The problem with Bangernomics is that whilst in theory its fantastic in reality it involves driving around in old sheds.
I can't believe some of the nonsense in this thread.
To get a <£1000 car you don't have to be driving an Austin Allegro - you will get a fairly modern (doesn't have to be shaped like a box) car, with whatever you want if you are flexible (leather, ac, sun roof, etc.) decent car.
And they don't break down that much at all, less to actually fail, sure you might get oil leaks, etc. but it's fairly unlikely to leave you stranded, certainly mine never did in 3 years.
I don't see that say a 1999 Mondeo with air con is by any means a shed.
I've been in far worse cars, and indeed in many countries in the world far older cars would be worth thousands. I remember reading that a 1982 Toyota Corolla (with doors hanging off, broken window winder/locks, etc.) would cost $10,000 in Myanmar when I was there.
Used cars are absurdly, ridiculously cheap, given their new cost. It's madness to pretend otherwise. I can lease my current car for £399/month, or buy it for £26k new, but why would I when it cost me £7k at 3.5 years old?
My 1930s house is not perhaps as practical as a modern one, might require more maintenance, but it doesn't mean it's a shed....
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my sentiments exactly
Thank you Andrew
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"my sentiments exactly"
Seconded. As for "it involves driving around in old sheds", here's my old shed, photographed about 5 minutes ago:
farm2.static.flickr.com/1096/965597182_43eef63a13_...g
I know I keep on about it, and I was really trying not to get sucked into this discussion, but there is an awful lot of rot talked about old cars.
Sorting the wheat from the chaff is still important, but badge snobbery, public misconceptions, garage warranty requirements and the increasing durability of most cars has led to an oversupply of older ones, with the result that some really nice examples are available for buttons. I paid £600 for this one, and if it lasts a year, it won't owe me anything. It has ABS, air-con, leather seats and a lovely-sounding V6.
My partner's 323 is two years older and she's had that for five years. So far it's needed a brake caliper and a rear exhaust box...
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A Mazda Xedos 6. There's another bangernomics thread on the subject about 5 months ago, when I bought it (off Ebay).
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Generally & not specifically to the OP here - but this fascination with saving a few quid & not concentrating on the sensible issue of what the thing is supposed to do, i.e. provide safe & comfortable passage through this unpredictable & sometimes dangerous world is to invite calamity. If it's not necessary, it's not necessary.
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again phrases such as "invite calamity" seem to be massivily strong - if the car doesnt start u can use the wireless person to person device that is a mobile phone to call a cab or husband.
If it were taken to the nth degree the husband should pick up the wife as the station is so dangerous (it seems) and she COULD be attacked while walking to the car
"comfortable passage" - i dont pay for comforts such as leather and heating cos i would rather have a penny in my pocket so as I dont live my life on the "never never"
He asked for comment on which car not whether to do or not
Clear???
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the car has had all the work done i suppose rember i am about to inspect the car , is that its from 1995 not because its been laid up!
car that old will have had to been maintained!
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He asked for comment on which car not whether to do or not
Clear???
Within the guidelines of this site,politeness & the forebearance of the Moderators, I will post what comments I see fit.
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look guys its just a car, of course if the wife was stranded i would go get her.
We live in a hampshire village not moss side
there is no need to have a go at each other
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Older Volvos are solid and dependable. I ran an old 940 for a few years whilst I was working in a part of Manchester renowned for TWOCing. It was never touched and needed nothing more than routine servicing.
Provided this 440 is solid, safe and a runner, you haven't got much to lose. The "gotchas" on old Volvos are things like the a/c, electric seats and windows - inconvenient failures that are expensive to fix. The idea of bangernomics though is to view the car as disposable - in the event of MOT failure or uneconomic repair being necessary.
Your wife's mileage will be so low that if the 440 is mechanically sound now, it's unlikely to deteriorate to catastrophic failure in 12 months of use.
Go for it - it will be a learning experience that won't cost you very much. (Irony - how many here lose £3k/year in depreciation and think they are getting good value?)
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As I said earlier kush, the £500 sounds ok (offer less anyway, say £420, what have you to lose?).
Nothing wrong with bangernomics, my current car I bought in November is a Mitsu Colt I paid £285 for with new MOT, new tyres all round, it had just had a cambelt, radiator etc etc too. Why do some people think you are going to get stranded? Most older cars have had most things replaced anyway.
Absoultely agree with you, sell the Polo, there are much better things to spend (waste) money on than a newer depreciating car.
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Volvo parts prices might be more expensive, worth thinking about.
But as said, the condition of the individual car is more important than "is this model any good" because a cared for "rubbish" car will be more reliable than a neglected "good" one.
1990s Volvos, early '90s VWs (especially Passat and Polo), Mitsubishis, Nissans are all things I've had good experience with running on a shoestring.
I don't prescribe to the more hysterical posts on here; so what if it's driving a shed? I think the original question was for something that's basically 1 step up from a bicycle? If it breaks down it can be repaired in a day or two and a taxi can be used. And of course insinuating that new cars don't break down is insane...
I'll throw one more thing into the mix, when travelling by train the second largest cost is parking at the station, would a 50cc scooter be worth considering? I usually take my bicycle 3 miles to the station but it's on good roads through town, I wouldn't like to try it through NSL roads between villages.
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My caveat with driving older cars is that it's best if you have two of them, or at least two cars in the house. This way any occasional reliability trouble is mitigated by the fact that you can use the other car for the day. For most people, owning two cars is a luxury not a necessity, and you can get away with just the one on occasion.
For anyone who falls into this category, owning at least one older car makes perfect sense.
If you are relying on a car to get you to work etc, then I'd be getting something newer if I could afford it -- even a 2000-2001 car bought for about £1500 should prove just as reliable as a new car in 99% of situations.
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IMHO bangernomics only works if you chose a car that's popular and easy to work on. If its popular then motor factors will keep stock of parts as will the local scrap yard. This also implies that you'll be doing some,if not a lot,of the work on the car yourself. A £500 car needing work at a garage charging £40 - 50 an hour soon becomes uneconomic. Also the more popular the car is the more chance that a garage will be familiar with it so work should be done quicker if it has to be done by a garage. I don't think the 440 falls into this category. If you must get rid of the VW (and in your situation I think that's a mistake) go Japanese.
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IMHO bangernomics only works if you chose a car that's popular and easy to work on
I think that's an important point. 'Bangernomics' tends to appeal to more mechanically-minded owners who don't mind a bit of 'tinkering and fettling' to avoid ever-increasing garage labour rates.
I recently bought a Mercedes W124 280E for £600 (that's 98% depreciation!!) that needed a few things sorting (parking brake shoes, instrument cluster lights, front ant-roll bar bushes). £20 of Ebay bits and four hours of my labour resulted in another 12 months' MoT, but I dread to think how much an M-B dealer would charge :-)
The W124 is often cited as a good bangernomics candidate, but you do need to be mechanically (and electrically!)-savvy to avoid unwelcome expense. That 2.8 litre 24V straight-six engine is rather nice, however.....
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Hi Gareth
You are right about station parking, but this is a rural station where parking is free, and to be fair I can't imagine the wife wanting to ride a 50cc on the roads.
She won't let me have a motorbike!
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to be fair I can't imagine the wife wanting to ride a 50cc on the roads. She won't let me have a motorbike!
Doctors are like that. Can't think why they prefer Volvos to motorbikes (racks brains trying to work out this unsolvable puzzle), but they do, in my experience.
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Funny that she seems to get annoyed when i smoke too!?
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Hi Kush,
I can well understand your motivation to go the bangernomics route, having spent three years driving a 4 year old Punto two miles each way to catch a train to work.
The only suggestion I can offer is to calculate the actual cost carefully before you change the Polo. Consider what a 3 year old VW will sell for against the cost of buying the "banger", but also allow for a repair fund, AA/RAC membership (if you want it), possibly higher tax/insurance on a larger engine and whatever cost you may incur hiring a larger/newer car for holidays etc.
I did exactly this calculation when I was commuting (and, granted, making a two-hour cross-country trip every second weekend). The most cost-effective route has to keep the Punto and continue to run it until it becomes a "banger". Now that its reaching this point, I'll sell it to someone looking for their first car.
As to repairs, the FIAT has been well maintained from new, but has still needed an unscheduled repair each year (the most expensive of whcih cost £500) since turing 7 years old. Given the low price of UK "bangers", such repairs could find you looking for a replacement car every 12-18 months depending on your luck and judgement when buying.
But, as everybody's situation is different, you need to do the sums for your particular combination of circumstances.
HTH
- Gromit
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Rural area and the need for a reliable car? I wouldn't go down the bangernomics route.
I've done it in an urban area with regular public transport and plenty of garages within walking distance for the jobs I couldn't tackle, but cars never break down at a convenient time!
Any repair you can't do will take a couple of days to sort out - how do you manage then?
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"I am sorry you were in hospital two weeks ago and i hope whatever it was was resolved and your health is good now, but the reason you got treated well is because all NHS staff are there because they want to care for their patients."
Thanks for the kind words. And I agree about the NHS staff.
Hope your wife gets a well paid doctor's job soon too - we need all the doctor's we can get IMHO.
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Old shape Suzuki Swift 1 litre.
Very comfortable.
Very reliable.
Tax is £115.
Very fuel economic as well; I regularly better 40mpg in mine; one trip produced a measured 52.5mpg [ and it's an automatic! ].
After the three miles a day from cold treat it to an hour's NSL run once or twice a week - whatever make you buy.
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Forgot to add - the Swift has another advantage; the radiator fan is driven by a dedicated motor, not off a belt.
This means if the fan fails you can nurse the thing a surprising distance without damage as long as you can keep above 20 30 mph most of the time. The only time I've ever had mechancical trouble with mine it was the radiator fan bearing failing on the M25; any other car I'd have been on the hard shoulder straight away. The Swift was able to keep going to a safer place with no trouble at all. [ I'll have to do a thread for that story sometime won't I? :-) ]
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Whaaaat? Haven't all cars had electric fan motors for years? I've owned some old cars (my current one is 13 years old) but they have all been electric fans. Also if the fan stopped working it wouldn't matter unless you driving in conditions where the fan would have to kick in (driving slow). Why would you have been on the hard shoulder straight away in "any other car"?
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try telling my mate with the VW Bora what a great thing electric fans are.... Been part of a thread on here before.
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I'm still not getting this "you'll need a second car for when it breaks down" stuff. For the last 5 years my better half has had 2 cars which cost £1500 each and were thrashed without mercy for 12,000 miles a year. Not a single breakdown and barely serviced once a year.
If you buy carefully you're no more likely to end up stranded than with a new car.
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Ah - I didn't realise the motor driven fan was now standard...
[ You can tell I've only ever had the one car can't you?! ]
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Bangernomics doesnt mean unreliable cars, thats an utter myth.
In the last 9 years I have owned 22 ( 3 at a time sometimes ) cars over the age of ten years old, none of which have broken down, from a 153k Jaguar to my trusty Reliant Rialto - its not the price that counts, its the car.
Most of those cars were doing over 1000 miles per month and aside from routine servicing, they didnt cost me very much at all. The trick is, unless you have a dead cert for the MOT pass, buy with 12 months ticket and sell with 6 as people will still buy a car with 6 months ticket on it.
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What a load of nonsense has been written above! Old cars "break down" (by which I mean suffer a catastrphic mechanical failure which causes them to stop immediately and be unable to limp home) pretty much as frequently as new cars - i.e. never.
Needing a new exhaust, an engine rebore (?!), new brake pads, new tyres, new clutch is not generally an instant failure to be able to proceed.
Running an old car is cheaper than running a new car. Don't believe me? Well, where are the brand new MBs on council estates?
Go *really* cheap. Get a Mk ii Polo for under £150 with 12 months ticket.
I too have a well paid job but see no reason to spend unnecessary money on cars - which is why I am driving a car with NEGATIVE value.
OP is asking for a car to do 1500 miles per annum. It's actually close enough to walk... and in the unliekly event that it fails, there is the insurance of being able to obtain and afford a £20 cab ride. Yeah, 10% of the cost of the car, but so what? Mrs OP is wealthy enough.
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eh? how come breakdown services (rac, aa etc are such big business if cars never break down. Last year on the Astra the cambelt tensioner or something seized, belt was still there but no teeth and all the cam followers were just lumps of scrap metal - no limp home there. ECU on the Uno filled up with water and the car stopped dead or again on the Uno the electric pack on the dizzy failed - again a dead car. Then again coming back up the country the other week, the only cars I saw on the hard shoulder were all fairly newish but my H reg chugged past them all.
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On the hard shoulder on the back of AA trucks yesterday - Laguna 04 plate and Megane CC... I soooo want a modern car dont I?
Simple cars have less to go wrong, so less will go wrong. Its hardly rocket science.
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Old cars - noisy, slow, often no ABS, no air con, crash protection of a pram.
No thanks, none of that.
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Old cars - noisy slow often no ABS no air con crash protection of a pram.
Don't go crashing then :)
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new cars; expensive to buy, depreciation, expensive to service to keep the warranty up, that gutted feeling when it gets marked.
No thanks, none of that.
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Old cars - noisy slow often no ABS no air con crash protection of a pram.
As for the W124 280E mentioned previously:
Noisy? - er, no
Slow? - er, no
No ABS? - er, no
No air con? - er, no
crash protection? - seen worse
£600? - er, yes :-)
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And for OP:
Old cars -
noisy - over 2.5 miles - so what?
slow - make what? 20 seconds difference over 2.5 miles.
often no ABS - doesn't have to be
no air con - over 2.5 miles?
crash protection of a pram - compared to the current super mini? Much better off in a 440.
Sorry, better 'virtually never' rather than 'never'. It's not like the good old days, is it.
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We're talking about a 3 mile journey. So noise, speed, comfort, aircon, abs etc are of little consequence. Crash protection? Much more than a push bike or motorcycle, just don't do silly speeds and don't crash!
I'd scour the local papers for a dirt cheap sub-£500 car with a years ticket and hopefully some tax. Smallest engine possible so it warms up quickly, hopefully an pensioner's ex-runabout. Buy a disk-lok as scroats will steal anything and enjoy(!) cheap motoring.
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reckon volvo has got alright crash protection
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Part of the trick of being successful at bangernomics is finding well-made cars that are unloved by the market, but are easy to fix, reliable etc.
The Jetta/Vento is one such model - all the underpinnings of the Golf, but of no interest to the younger set, or anyone in fact.
It's not a total steal, but this is the kind of ad that would appeal to me:
oxford.gumtree.com/oxford/57/12057857.html - clearly there are lots more questions to be asked, but anyone who gives a car a full service just before selling it may be a "good" owner!
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I'm actually more suspicious of the 'recent full service' ads. I can just picture the mechanic saying, 'your widget twaddle is going to go soon - better sell it while it's still going'....
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A fair point, but the 12 months MoT may provide some reassurance.
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I always used to sell cars with a recent oil change atleast as it means its one thing the buyer wont feel they have to do straight away.
Reducing the buyers ammo for knocking down the price can make many quite helpless but to pay full whack as there arent that many clued up buyers out there despite the wealth of help to make them so. In that respect and if you have nerve, its a sellers market unless your selling something odd.
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I'm actually more suspicious of the 'recent full service' ads. I can just picture the mechanic saying 'your widget twaddle is going to go soon - better sell it while it's still going'....
I've always been suspicious of cars that say 'recent full service' for that reasonn and shy'd away from them as a result. The same for me when someone says that the cars comes with a stack of receipts for work and go onto say how many £1000s they've spent on the car in the last few years.
That, to me, is not a good thing.
Chris
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"when someone says that the cars comes with a stack of receipts for work and go onto say how many £1000s they've spent on the car in the last few years.
That, to me, is not a good thing.
Chris"
Good, leave them for me, I'll have lots like that thanks! Far rather they paid than I had to!
;-)
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Good leave them for me I'll have lots like that thanks! Far rather they paid than I had to!
:)
Depends on what's been done though doesn't it?
Yeah, a long list of brake discs -- cambelt -- brake pipes -- exhaust -- battery is one thing, but "got the gearbox overhauled" -- "fixed the aircon that packed up" -- "engine rebuild" -- etc etc does not inspire confidence.
A reliable car simply doesn't ever need things like that doing, and certainly not multiple instances. That kind of work implies money pit, and I for one would run away too.
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"Depends on what's been done though doesn't it?"
Well, I can sort of see where you're coming from with this- but as long as its been done somewhere legit, with suitable bills to prove ahat a 'rebuild' was, I'd be ecstatic with a rebuilt gearbox, engine and new evaporator... the last being the straw that broke the seller's back and made the car the one for me!
I once bought a Volvo 440 that had been a second car from new, been 'babied' and overserviced and had cost a fortune over the last twelve months - tyres, discs and pads, battery, clutch, new exhaust, and - perhaps worryingly, 'recent exchange gearbox' - which was fitted by a Volvo dealer, was a Volvo exchange unit and decided the owner that despite his wife liking her car, it was time for a new Yaris for her! the bills were in the region of £3k, the Volvo dealer refused to make any offer as a part ex and the Toyota dealer offered him £800 - or a five hundred discount for no part-ex. I got it for £800 and sold it two years later for more than that, having had to spend at least £40 on ... erm, oil changes!
That's how I like them!
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"there are lots more questions to be asked"
Like what 'steel alloys' are! :-)
I agree with your main argument, though. Some cars, like the Jetta/Vento (and saloon versions of more popular estates, like Volvos and Legacies) seem to be curiously unloved, at least in this country.
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I have a 23 year old car :-
Noisy - no
Slow - 0-60 in 7.9
ABS - no, but it has disks all round and 225 tyres, it stops very nicely.
Air con - yes
crash protection - hard to say, no air bags but its a fairly large car so might not be too bad.
Just picked up an omega estate, 1999 for a grand from a dealer with 30 days warrenty, new cambelt, exhaust and a service. One years MOT.
Noisy - no
Slow - 2.0 ecotec, seems to go quite nicely.
ABS - yes
Air con - yes
Crash protection - yes, largge car with air bags.
Dont forget that over the last few years have got pretty good, its getting ever harder to improve on them. In fact, some cars seem to get worse as they get newer...
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In fact some cars seem to get worse as they get newer...
Shhh! People will realise they've been wasting their money on all these new cars which are bought purely for image/keeping up with the Joneses. Without excuses such as "better crash protection" and "quieter engine" and "it's quicker", people would actually have to admit why they're really buying new cars. We'll just save all the money they waste, and drive with equally smug looks on our faces.
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"omega estate, 1999 for a grand from a dealer"
That's quite impressive - how many miles? Dealers really do seem to be wary of anything more than about 6 years old, and also reflect the usual customer view of anything with more than 100k on it. Good news for the rest of us, though!
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