I bumped into a friend last night. He earns about £50,000, and his wife about £15000. They spend £850 a month on two cars less than 18 months old, but live in rented (MoD married quarter) house.
We drive a 51 Focus and an L reg 405, and have always driven older cars. But we've been pretty successful buying/improving/selling houses - so while he always has a nice car to drive, he's also slobbering over my house, and I've never earned more than him. Go figure.
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Local Yokel - nice post - its not so much how much you earn, its also about how you spend it!
I've noticed in the last couple of years that the car park in our local Aldi often contains some very expensive motor cars. I think this is a similar situation where those poeple say "I bumped into a friend the other day who always shops in Waitrose, I shop at Aldi so i can afford a flash car"
As for me, I drive an old banger (1999 Audi A4) and shop at Aldi. I like to spend my money on the family, house and holidays.
While I do like cars, I feel I get more enjoyment from my money by spending it in different areas.
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Its a case of different priorities, some people would rather have a nicer car, others better holidays and so on. I don't think people who buy or run expensive cars lack savvy. Also some don't just think cars are something to get you from A to B , but should be something to enjoy aswell. One thing is for sure though, if you want to invest, dont buy a car! (unless something extoic maybe).
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I've mentioned before about a man I know who is in his early 50's and is unbelievably wealthy. He has at least three expensive houses in posh parts of London, farm in Yorkshire, farm in New Zealand, huge house near us. He has made his fortune out of selling helicopters and private jets.
And he drives a knackered old Merc 1984 era...
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What we need to remember is the influence of the company car on all this. Originally came in as apart of wage control implemented by Edward Heath, which meant you couldn't give staff a pay rise of more than x%, but you could give them a fully-funded and lightly taxed company car.
It made a huge difference, and the changing tax position has not changed the perception that a smart car on the drive = successful person.
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The absurdly rich no longer need to impress anyone, so they keep and use things that work for them. The rest of us - well, a lot of us anyway - get sucked into the shiny car competition, and believe that turning up to work in a new BMW or suchlike shows our clients and colleagues that we're made of the right stuff. Sadly, since many of the people we have to please at work are stuck in the same cult, it may even be true.
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I've mentioned before about a man I know who is in his early 50's and is unbelievably wealthy.....And he drives a knackered old Merc 1984 era...
Exactly. Proves the point that those who are *really* successful have no need to keep up with the Joneses. He doesn't have the feelings of envy and inadequecy that fuel a snobby attitude. The contempt shown in the BR is mainly due to disbelief that others could possibly drive "inferior" cars yet still feel adequate and not in the least bit envious. In fact, if anything, I feel smug knowing that my car's running costs (apart from fuel) are negligable. No hire-purchase/contract-hire, no loan, no main-dealer servicing.
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>>>is unbelievably wealthy.....And he drives a knackered old Merc 1984 era...
>Exactly. Proves the point that those who are *really* successful have no >need to keep up with the Joneses.
It proves absolutely nothing. It proves that that particular chap is a fan of the (I presume) W123 MB.
I have an acquaintance who is truly unbelievably wealthy. And he owns an entire fleet of Ferraris, MBs etc. etc. etc. Does it prove that he feels the need to keep up with the Jones's with their new 3 series? I doubt it.
Horses for courses. What is so great about having a nice house? That is so much greater than having a nice car? You can't take it with you, so you might as well spend it.
My T-reg Vectra with a slightly mis-shapen rear bumper is often seen parked at Aldi - although more normally I walk.
______________________________
The above should not be construed as a recommendation or advice. Be
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It's a personal thing.
I am a car enthusiast, and yes, I could afford to buy a newer, more interesting car to replace the Mondeo. Whatever I drive though will spend 50 hrs a week in a public car park inside the M25 where it will pick up new dinks and scuffs almost weekly, and has to slip under the radar of the local chavs. It will also spend 250 of its 350 weekly miles in slow moving traffic. Therefore I really can't see the point in having a few hundred quid a month go out to worry about where I park my shiny new car, or how the constant stop/start traffic is killing it. Neither are concerns at present. If my £1,000 car dies, or gives me a bill over £1,000, I'll just buy another £1,000 car and in 3 months, my car allowance will have paid for it. It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned. The more image conscious would doubtless feel differently, and that is their right to do so.
The only reason we went for a newer car for SWMBO was because SWMBO wanted a good NCAP safety rating. Even I had to agree that occupant safety is one area where newer cars are definitely better than older ones. While a 5 star NCAP guarantees nothing, I would far rather the kids had it on their side than be in my 7 year old six figure miler should the worst happen. We also tend to keep family cars a long time, so fully intend to have our money's worth out of it.
But I'm happy to amble to work and back in the Mondeo. It's a nice enough car as long as you're not in a rush, has good air-con for those muggy summer days, and the traffic I have to deal with means it wouldn't matter what I was driving in terms of journey speed. What it makes Mr. 330i or Mr. A4 think of my income and career success as he sits in the queue next to me, I couldn't care less. Frankly it's none of his business.
When/if I have a shorter commute, or can park my car even half securely, or if I wake up one morning and change my mind, I'll buy something nicer. But for now it'll do nicely.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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Proves the point that those who are *really* successful have no need to keep up with the
Joneses
see
cars.uk.msn.com/news/top_ten_article.aspx?cp-docum...2
Top 10:Cars owned by Billionaires!
...... look at the cars driven by the billionaires on the 2006 list. The cars and trucks driven by those in the Top 10 of the 2006 Forbes list was, in short, shocking. You won?t find a Bugatti, Ferrari or BMW driven by these billionaires. But you will find a Lincoln, a Mazda, even a Dodge and Ford. It seems that for the super-rich, a vehicle is seen not as a status symbol, but as a means to an end in which to get from point A to point B. Status is something that these billionaires need not prove to others. ....
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That Bluebird for 125 quid must be bargain of the century,fantastic car,shame it had leather but what a cheap set of wheels to get into the minicab business.
Toughest car available on the UK market in the last 40 years imho.
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I've mentioned before about a man I know who is in his early 50's and is unbelievably wealthy. He has at least three expensive houses in posh parts of London farm in Yorkshire farm in New Zealand huge house near us. He has made his fortune out of selling helicopters and private jets. And he drives a knackered old Merc 1984 era...
Does'nt surprise me in the slightest. I know of some very genuinely wealthy people like that. In my neck of the woods (cheshire) though, it seems that there are loads - and I means loads - of top level motors and they are all brand new. I personally think that it is because such cars are that much easier to obtain on tick when new. A recent example was an advert I saw from a Ferrari main dealer with a headline along the lines of 'own a used 360 for just £350 per month', now anyone who is only prepared to pay that much per month should not even be contemplating a car that can cost thousands to service, but I think it sums up the mentality pretty accurately.
Round here so many (apparently) wealthy people are obsessed with having the latest of everything, not neccassarily the best. Makes me think it's because they are not actually that wealthy after all.
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Nowhere is the badge snobbery more evident than my place of work. We all earn about the same amount and I could add a bit on my mortgage or take out a loan and get an A4, Merc, BM, and park outside the office if I want. I saved up and bought my Y plate Mondeo for cash. It's black (like my colleagues' cars), has air con, CD, drives great yet if I park outside I'm told to move it. Just for having a blue oval on the front.
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the interesting thing is that in a work setting I immediately take a dislike to anyone driving an over the top flash car - makes think they are making too much money and are probably ripping us off. I prefer to see people turn up in something a bit more sensible and apropriate.
A while back I had a few builders come round to estimate for some work, cars used ranged from transit van, knackered old ford orion and brand new focus ST in that zingy orange (or whatever it is). The guy with the transit van was by far the most professional and knowledgeable and would have got the job if we had decided to go ahead with the work.
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What a dreadful place to work yours must be, Boggy!
But don't despair. My younger car is now 9 years old but doesn't look it and it pleases me - I'm the one who has to drive it (apart, I've just remembered, from SWMBO who won't let me sell it because she likes it so much).
Just bear in mind that Barclays Bank (just as an example) made an easy profit last year of something like seven billion pounds - but they didn't make from the likes of you and I.
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Well on the reasoning that an X reg Atra is "an old banger" , youngest son drives a "classic" 1993 Fiesta and SWMBO a "classic" 1993 106.
As for our house, well it's over 150 years old...:-)
Judging people by possessions and appearances is a mug's habit.
madf
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Judging people by possessions and appearances is a mug's habit.
My W-reg Almera will soon be a classic as well Madf! ;-)
All of this snobbery nonsense is so superficial - projecting an image of success and wealth to others, usually by borrowing beyond one's own means. Why can't people just be happy with what they've got? - there'll always be someone with a lot less! When I worked in a petrol station, I found that the most obnoxious customers drove "prestige" cars. I'll stick with my old rice-burner ;-)
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There is nothing "classic" about a 93 fiesta or 106.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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There is nothing "classic" about a 93 fiesta or 106.
True. The last 1993 Fiesta I saw was best described as RUST-ic ;-)
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thanks for this madf, I wondered what my '90 Previa & '93 214 were - classics! wonder if the insurance co would buy that?
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yet if I park outside I'm told to move it. Just for having a blue oval on the front.
My previous company banned its sales and support people on car allowances from driving BMW's and Mercs because they felt it gave the impression to customers and visitors that the company was making too much money, and therefore overcharging them.
Funny how image means different things to different companies and organisations.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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but live in rented (MoD married quarter) house.
We've always kept reasonably up to date with cars and have spent a lot of money on holidays, which, looking back, clearly ought to have been invested in housing. But for 15 years I always thought my well paid job was on a knife edge (was finally made redundant 18mths ago) so never wanted to stretch ourselves and we spent money on things that we could stop quickly of we needed to, without risking the roof over our heads.
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Some of the comments on here are rather short sighted although I do believe there is a certain type of person who believes that owning a better car somewhow makes them a better person.
From my own perspective the reason I chose to buy an RS4 had nothing to do with it's badge or prestige but solely it's ability. As I said on another thread if Skoda made the same thing and sold it for less I'd have bought one over the Audi anyday.
Likewise the RS4 might seem like an expensive or prestigious car to some people whereas to others it may look like a pumped up German taxi cab that happens to offer outrageous value for money in terms of it's performance and practicality...........all a question of perspective chaps and chap-esses.
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>TVM
"There is nothing "classic" about a 93 fiesta or 106.
I know.. I was just being sarcastic:-))))
madf
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Perhaps those here think that their wealthy (friends?) are somehow immune from snobbery themselves, (as demonstrated by them driving old bangers of various types) are deluding themselves , maybe their snobbery is off our radar, they 'get off' on owning houses in posh parts of London & other places, travelling 1st class etc or owning solid sliver helicopters - after all, what propels their desire to be absurdly rich, surely not the fear of boredom?
It's also rather churlish to criticise poeple's desire to have a nice shiny new BMW or whatever - why not show-off a bit! Why is the car park 'fashion show' any less valid or more vacuous than any other expressions of pride? The poor sod who works in the modern corporate rat race needs some little compensation.
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Talking of cars and snobs I saw a sticker saying
My other car's a Porsche on a Bentley!
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Although I do change my cars fairly regularly (every 3-4 years) its generally not a snob thing. Why spend more and more repairing an older (and potentially unreliable) car when I can spend the same sort of money on a small loan and upgrade to a new model, usually with some warranty and less miles. The cost of the loan can almost be offset by the reduced running costs and quite often the lower insurance costs.
I also would prefer my family to be in the safest car I can realistically afford - if that makes me a snob, then I'll live with it, live being the important word!
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I think people are taking this a little too far.
I don't think anyone is saying if you have a modern car you **must** be a snob. You might be, but, who knows?
However, whatever car you own, if you look down upon someone with an 8 year old Astra, then you **are** a snob.
Number_Cruncher
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Yes, I am not immune to car snobbery. I drive a 1992 toyota carina. I think I might need to personalise the number plate though - the car doesn't show its age that much even though it is 2 marques away from the newest Avensus. But the plate gives it away.
I always budget £1,000 per year for cars - to include depreciation, tax, mot, service etc. That is my rule of thumb.
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For years I walked the image tightrope of owning a car that is rewarding to drive whilst not sending out the wrong vibes to clients. The TVR was pushing it a bit. Now I don't really use a car for work (I use the train into London or fly).
Whilst growing my business I had a goal of buying a new Ferrari. When the 355 was launched I had a test drive and really didn't like it at all. It demanded 100% concentration and I would have been a nervous wreck owning one.
With hindsight, I would say that I've blown a small fortune in depreciation. Maybe that was justified by the self-esteem and motivation the cars gave me or the way they enhanced my company's brand, I don't know.
However, I'm now firmly in the bangernomics camp, driving a 6 year old C5 diesel estate. I couldn't care less what anyone makes of my choice of car. I would rather ensure adequate provision for my retirement than drive around in the latest fashion in cars.
Finally, the glossy car magazines peddle pure fantasy - all those articles on cutting motoring costs. The biggest expense in owning a new car is always depreciation, so the cheapest motoring will always be in a cheap car. There comes a point when it's uneconomic to repair however, in this consumer society there's a ready supply of cheap cars.
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Personally I think car snobs (and many other snobs) are rife in this country as we become more materialistic and our economy is driven by the retail sector, which causes more and more people to be sucked in by the marketing (& credit card debt) that goes with it.
When I am out & see toddlers with the latest 'named' shoes and clothes and then their parents getting into there upmarket cars (and good luck to them) - it strikes me as a complete waste as clearly the children are being dressed to show off their parents wallets (or credit card debt).
Its easy to be conned into being a snob now because credit - sorry debt is so easy to get nowadays - what you own is not really a measure of your wealth - it could easily be a measure of your debt in todays society.
I read one of James May's articles where he thought Audi owners (I personally do not have an issue with Audi) were the snobiest of snobs as in his view your typical Audi owner is the type of person that does not want to be seen to be a BMW or MB driver - of course the irony in this is that they are so obsessed with what people think they buy a car to influence what people think about themselves - snobbery indeed.
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I read one of James May's articles where he thought Audi owners (I personally do not have an issue with Audi) were the snobiest of snobs as in his view your typical Audi owner is the type of person that does not want to be seen to be a BMW or MB driver - of course the irony in this is that they are so obsessed with what people think they buy a car to influence what people think about themselves - snobbery indeed.
I do think the above might be true of many Alfa and Saab drivers as well. I get the impression that many of them like to think of themselves as somehow academically superior to drivers of German cars. Just an observation.
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Quite right, Bell Boy! If someone posts asking for help with their car - whatever it might be - then let the rest of us offer what useful advice we can and keep to the question asked.
I get the impression some regulars here take any comment about car-buying habits, or the make and model they own themselves, personally. Why bother? Each of us (hopefully) drives what suits our needs, likes, priorities and pockets, so live and let live.
As has been said before, without new car buyers, there'd be no cheap second-hands for me to run. And likewise, without bangernomicists, the trade-in value of your four-year old car would collapse. So next time another poster's approach gets you hot under the collar, try to remember that there's a place - and a need - for all of us in the car market.
With that said I'll climb down off my soapbox and collect the ol' Punto from its latest unscheduled trip to the garage...
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well said Gromit. I don't buy wrecks but carefully selected older cars. I'm very happy for others to buy new 'cos I'll be buying them from them one day - look after 'em for me please.
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Some time back the then boy friend of a woman I know, who had just passed his driving test, referred repeatedly in conversation to 'my Volkswagen Golf'. After a while this began to irritate me, so I asked what sort of Golf it was, assuming it was a GTI and he was bursting with pride. But he didn't answer. He just looked shifty. Either he didn't know what model it was or he couldn't bear to admit it wasn't a GTI. What with one thing and another I didn't really take to him, to put it mildly. But his gf and her friends all insisted he was OK really.
Some time after that he got in an accident causing serious injury to someone else, and tried to do a runner.
Cars aren't all that difficult. If someone is simultaneously pretentious and ignorant about cars, they are quite likely (although not absolutely certain) to be screaming carphounds in other ways too, like the appalling fellow just described.
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However whatever car you own if you look down upon someone with an 8 year old Astra then you **are** a snob. Number_Cruncher
It's official then - I'm a snob.... Drat!
[As I normally drive a ratty 17 year-old Ford pick-up, didn't think that was even possible...?]
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a ratty 17 year-old Ford pick-up
I may as well confess Screwloose that I am a snob, about cars as about everything else, but in a convoluted way that shouldn't often give offence.
However, speaking as a car snob, I envy your vehicle from the bottom of my heart, provided of course that it isn't too horrible... :o}
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