There was also another proposal in the news
This group should also be banned from carrying passengers aged between 10 and 20 from 11pm to 5am, it adds.
I wonder how they are going to check that! Will the police stop each & every car at night to verify driver's age?
Otherwise, I personally don't see anything against raising age to 18. Most other countries in the world have legal driving age starting from 18.
Human psychology changes very quickly during teenage years. So, at 18, it is "expected" that they will be more mature than in 17.
There are, of course, 47-yr old lunatics - but exception proves the rule :)
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What I saw yesterday.
Side road which leads to a car park, off this is a small supermarket with a seperate car park. Large construction site next door so parking spaces at a premium and side road is one car wide due to parked cars. I turn right into side road and have to stop behind a taxi trying to get into supermarket car park. Taxi can't move due to a Meriva driver wanting to exit the side road. Solution is for Meriva driver to reverse past supermarket entrance, we both go into supermarket, Meriva drives off and all is fine.
What happens? Meriva driver begins reversing and doesn't have a clue - never looks over their shoulder, just starts reversing. Turns the wheel (for no reason) and plants the rear of the car into the door of a parked car! Meriva driver then just sits there without a clue what to do. Scared to go forward unable to go backwards. In the end someone gets out of the taxi and drives the Meriva to get it out of the way.
Driver of Meriva was a 40+ year old woman with green L plates plastered everywhere.
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Yes driving should be a priviledge not a right and should be based on hazzard perception, reaction times, general abilty to control a vehicle to a high standard, knowledge of regs and law, signs and signals, basic knowledge of a vehicles functions and basis maintenance etc - irrespective of age.
However there need to be a minimum age and I reckon there is a strong argument for raising it.
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I'm not sure that limiting passengers in that age group at certain times is a bad idea. When the roads are empty and the young lad behind the wheel has his burberry clad mates egging him on from the back seats things are bound to get lairy. New Zealand already have a chaperone system for new drivers and it seems to work, but only because it's strictly enforced.
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I can remember doing something very stupid in a car, trying to impress a girl. It was only by luck rather than judgement that we both came out of it unhurt. I was 21, maybe 22.
My experience makes me think wisdom can't be so precisely linked to age, but I do think it's a good idea to better regulate driving schools so that it's less to do with how few lessons you can get away with and more to do with reaching a standard.
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"I can remember doing something very stupid in a car, trying to impress a girl"
Me too, although not always at the wheel.. :-)
WRT the proposed legislation, I'm not sure that 18 is enough. It also seems a bit unfair on girls - I imagine the problem is as much to do with testosterone as training...
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Does anyone the min driving age in the rest of Europe, and is this problem of young drivers killing themselves an issue there too?
In some parts of the US kids can start learning at 14 and get a full licence at 15.
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In some parts of the US kids can start learning at 14 and get a full licence at 15.
Not sure, but I think the minimum age to apply for a licence (learning permit)in the US is 15 years and 9 months and you have to be 16 to drive on the roads. You usually have to complete a test to get your learners permit. Some states (california) then require a minimum instruction of 30 hours tuition.
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PS. A "no insurance" violation in most of the US stays on there licences FOREVER. Maybe this should be brought in over here, I think it would cut the number of uninsured drivers on our roads.
Lee
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I would really like to know what piece of evidence exists anywhere to suggest that someone's psychological make up changes at all between the ages of 17 and 18.
I drive between 70 and 200 miles every day, and see stupid behaviour from people of all ages and both sexes, in all types of car, and on all types of road.
Maybe policing the roads properly, and dealing with the idiots harshly, and on an individual basis would be a more effective approach than pigeon-holing an entire age group and penalising the majority for the behaviour of a minority. What I can say quite accurately is that most bad driving I am subjected to is NOT by 17 year olds.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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Not sure but I think the minimum age to apply for a licence (learning permit)in the US is 15 years and 9 months and you have to be 16 to drive on the roads.
I looked here: www.2pass.co.uk/ages2.htm but don't know if it's accurate / up to date, or if there is additional qualification (ie mandatory lessons) required.
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Most european countries have 18 - but as the other poster suggested, it's also our test that is the problem - in many countries you are not allowed ANY errors in the test.
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In Switzerland one can only attempt driving test 3 times max. Once more with help from psychological counsellors!
In UK, there is no limit how many times one can attempt test!
Although it is debatable - I do doubt how good people drive who passed test over 10th attempts of so :-)
Is there any report which compares driving capability with no. of attempts to pass test?
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I'm a relatively mature 29yr old who just passed his test in April.
I've already written off one car due to a schoolboy error (swerving to avoid a bird flying across the road). This resulted in me mounting an embankment, clipping a tree and rolling my car.
Mistakes happen whatever your age but mistakes happen less with experience - I'd rather we had a fixed minimum number of lessons than heightening the age limit.
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I was a better driver at 17 than I am now, due to bad habits, less patience, and a misguided expectation that all other drivers should also know what they're doing. Whatever age, there will always be idiots on the road - some of the most dangerous are older drivers, as I find some of them show very little awareness of what's going on around them. I sometimes wonder how lenient their driving test must've been. Younger drivers' achilles heel is lack of experience, and the best way to gain experience is learning from one's own mistakes. I agree with previous posts that allowing 15 minor mistakes in a driving test is excessive - surely 10 should be a fair limit?!
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I remember at that age we were all dying to get behind the wheel. What happened in the next year is almost everyone had some incident - rolling a car, skidding into a ditch, bumping into the car in front etc...it was almost as if we all needed our own little "lesson" to then get us to slow down or pay more attention.
I had heard somewhere that the number of under 21s with licences has actually dropped in the last 15 years because of the cost of insurance either for them or their parents. I remember getting my first insurance policy aged 21 on a 10 year old golf and paying £145 a year with nil no claims in 1991. These days I think that sort of cover would be 10 times the price. Hence I wonder how many actually just don't bother learning to drive until later.
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My insurance on a 13y/o Nissan Sunny was over a grand when I was 17. Last renewal I had 4 years no-claims and my insurance on a newer, more powerful Almera was only £380/yr. I find the trick with insurance is to shop around - I've never stayed with the same company for over a year, and saved hundreds as a result.
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I find the trick with insurance is
(i) don't claim
(ii) grow older (but not too old).
Then you much less of a problem.
Insurance Cos have already restricted the driving age to >18 for most.
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They should lower the driving age to 12 - Before the onset of testosterone and at an age where learning comes easily and naturally.
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I passed my test at 17 in a February many moons ago. By the time autumn came I was 18, never had a bump or near miss and thought I knew it all and was the best driver in the world. Then the leaves came off the trees and taught me that country roads, fallen leaves and rain plus big ego and speed = through a hedge just missing a telegraph pole - could have been so much worse.
It's not the age it's attitude and experience that count.
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and of course we all know 18 year olds are renowned for their sense. Just came across this on the BBC report on 'English booze culture targeted':
'....Liver expert Professor Roger Williams, who treated the late football star George Best, said labelling should be compulsory, alcohol should be more expensive and the legal age to buy it should be raised from 18 to 21.'
sooner or later you'll not be able to drink and drive (separately of course) until the day before you're too old to get insurance.....
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Personally, id raise it to 21 - 18 is pretty well the same state of common sense as 17 whereas 21 is atleast part of the way to becoming a fully functioning adult who has a responsibility to someone other than the God of Speed.
I did some crazy things when I was in my teens, working for a car dealer didnt help mind you.
By 18, id done 140 in a Granada Cosworth and 120 in a seriously clapped out Renault 21 on a twisting A road or worse, 100 in a Daihatsu Hijet van past Gatwick ( equiv to about 150 in a normal car! ) - I wouldnt even dream about such a thing now at 27, infact the things I got up to horrify me, so many near misses and chances taken.
Im not from some council estate ( which seems to be where Roadwars gets all their footage )but that driving license is a ticket to doing crazy stuff at that age and most take it.
Unfortunatly, while you get a few sensible teen drivers, you get a large percentage who drive like lunatics - I have three such drivers in my close of 40 houses who charge up the road despite the kids in the street. Its this kind of utter disregard that is most common in young drivers although thats not to say there are older drivers who dont do the same, but most of us do grow up somewhat.
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Even 21 would be very low in some cases. I know, I've been there.
Walking past some flats along the railway the other day heard some tremendous wheelspin behind me that made me start. It was a ratfaced little twerp in a baseball cap coming out of a side street behind me in a sort of RAF-blue newish, nice-looking old-shape Corsa.
His mum's car, or his? Anyway it won't look nice for long, or be nice if any Corsa can be called that, if he carries on driving it like that.
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System used in New Zealand is probably the best so far devised: Three levels of licence, starting at age 15 (with strict supervision, limit on speed, night driving, etc.) then an "upgrade" at 16 and a final stage at 16 or 16 1/2 on completion of a defensive driving course.
Age isn't the problem, so much as maturity, responsibility and monitoring - much more effective with human police officers rather than radars, cameras etc.
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Age isn't the problem so much as maturity responsibility and monitoring - much more effective with human police officers rather than radars cameras etc.
Ahhhh but you don't have to pay a speed camera a salary, in fact they work the other way round! ;-)
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The training and exam/test is what needs sorting IMO. Young men of this age are allowed to go and get killed in Land Rovers in the Sandpit! If they can do that they are probably suitable material for driving in UK. If the test was made harder, written and practical, and some psycholgical testing was involved I think we would get some sensible young drivers and safer roads
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The training and exam/test is what needs sorting IMO. Young men of this age are allowed to go and get killed in Land Rovers in the Sandpit! If they can do that they are probably suitable material for driving in UK. If the test was made harder written and practical and some psycholgical testing was involved I think we would get some sensible young drivers and safer roads
No.
The test has got harder and harder over the years and it has made no difference to the attitudes of teenage drivers. They will do whatever it takes to pass all the theory tests in the world (the biggest waste of space ever introduced) but when they get behind the wheel they will behave like teenagers always have done, looking for excitment and taking chances believing nothing will ever happen to them.
Like all teenagers have behaved throughout history, till they get older and wiser.
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"If the test was made harder, written and practical, and some psycholgical testing was involved I think we would get some sensible young drivers and safer roads"
That would certainly exclude quite a few of the baseball-cap wearers! (And a good thing too.)
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