I can categorically state the obstruction IS NOT dependant on a vehicle wishing to come out.
For example, my old classic car has insurance that states it must be locked away in the garage at night. If i went out in it and some clown blocked my driveway, i'd have invalid insurance and could not have any recompense with the law? Of course not.
You can cause obstruction on any part of the Highway for a number of reasons. If it has a dropped kerb and someone wishes to use that part of the highway and you're unnecessarily obstructing it, you commit an offence.
|
I wasn't going to say anything but Westpig has prompted me to.( bad grammar I know ). The link in the first post says it all, nothing needs to be added to it. DVD is acknowledged as the daddy of
legistlation and its application on this site !
|
|
|
My understanding and experience with South Yorkshire Police of this was the dropped kerb was key.
If it is dropped then it is an access point to the property and it is an offence to obstruct entrance/exit to property.
|
|
I would argue that it would add weight to a case but there is nothing in any Traffic or Highways Act that mentions a dropped kerb, a garage or a driveway or any combination of all three spelt in any particular way. The Acts define Obstruction that's all. The law is then tested by reasonable people applying it to a particular situation.
|
|
|
If you think about it.......the entrance to say a factory. It would be daft to only have an offence to obstruct the exit, but not the entrance
then move the example on to a hospital
The offence is the obstruction of the highway, not the driveway. You obviously need to use the highway to get to the driveway.
|
|
WP - Do you think that's clear enough or do we need a sonic screwdriver ? :-) (Sorry to all if I sound impatient.)
|
|
|
|
or the driveway to the highway indeed (sorry)
|
|
i'll have a glass of whatever you've had....:-)
|
|
It was fresh air - went out for a blast on my bike, with a Traffic Cop....see my next post..
|
|
|
OK, here's an actual situation.
Access to your property is via your driveway and you do not live on an open plan estate.
A 4x4 parks across your driveway (as happened to me on a regular occurrence) and you have a house fire, how are the emergency services to access your property with 2.5 tonnes of LR in the way ?
|
Look.
Obstruction is obstruction. Means, getting in the way.
To park in such a way as to obstruct entry to or egress from someone's driveway is, er, obstruction.
How could anyone argue with that?
|
|
I cant see how a car that is LEGALLY parked, i.e. not on yellow lines etc can be forced to move. Someones drive is not part of the public highway, therefore you are not obstructing the highway - you may be preventing someones use of their property, but would that not be a civil matter? A dropped kerb does not give automatic right of entry I believe (but am quite prepared to be wrong).
|
|
|
|
and you have a house fire how are the emergency services to access your property with 2.5 tonnes of LR in the way ?
I don't think the fire brigade example is really typical, nor usually a problem. In this particular example they would simply shunt the obstructing vehicle out of the way. If there is a locked gate or a fence in the way they cut it. I imagine in an extreme case they would even demolish buildings, say to stop a runaway fire reaching a factory.
|
I occasionally have problems with a neighbour who has two Transit vans and two or three cars; he has blocked my driveway several times and been very reluctant to move the offending vehicle immediately.
As my other half has serious health problems it is critical that the driveway is kept clear, so the last time my drive was blocked by one of this neighbour's vans (late at night) I contacted the police.
The police control room operator was able to hear my conversation with the neighbour, in which he eventually and reluctantly decided to move his Transit.
Afterwards I was told by the operator that if the situation arose again, to contact the police at once and the matter would be dealt with speedily.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
Don't we just have a right to pass over the highway - once you stop you are outside your rights to be on the highway and hence causing an obstruction?
|
No, causing an obstruction is a completely different matter.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
i have had cars towed away for blocking my drive.......fixed penalty ticket for unnecessary obstruction, then the removal fee..... somewhere around the £160 mark all in
not a way to ingratiate yourself with the neighbours, but anyone willing to completely block access to my garage for a whole weekend deserves it in my book
her insolent son used to try to 'stare me out' afterwards, which was quite amusing as he was only about 14 yrs old and would blow away in the wind on a windy day...
|
Offence Wording On **(..SPECIFY DATE..) at **(..SPECIFY TOWNSHIP..), being a person in charge of a
(A)_[ motor vehicle, namely **(..SPECIFY VEHICLE MAKE AND INDEX NO..),]_
(B)_[trailer,]_
caused it to stand on a road, namely **(..SPECIFY ROAD AND LOCATION..), so as to cause an unnecessary obstruction of the road
Legislation Contrary to regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
|
Hello again folks.
Perhaps I should clarify. My 'research' so far has found that blocking a dropped kerb IS now prohibited in London.... My problem is that I don't have a dropped kerb to my garage as I live on a cobbled 'terrace' where the front of all of our houses is flush with the cobbled street (very Dickensian :-) ). Therefore there's no driveway, no pavement, just garage threshold right on the road.
Therefore I was hoping there is some clear cut prohibition of getting into one's garage.
|
|
my post at 2239 covers it.......if you were a private ambulance or funeral director it would be essential to come and go at all hours.... the unnecessary obstruction is of the part of the highway outside your house that you need to drive over to get to your garage... why have a garage if you can't use it?
|
Jack01,
>>My 'research' so far has found that blocking a dropped kerb IS now >>prohibited in London....
Could you let us know more about your research. Mine seems to come up with blocking an exiting vehicle at a dropped kerb is prohibited, but blocking entry only is not an offence.
|
|
My father was told by the police that access meant going onto the property, so preventing access wasn't applicable for leaving the driveway. They would attempt to get a car moved if it was over the driveway and he needed to park on it, but he was on his own once he was at home.
|
doug_r1 that's very interesting as it's the absolute and complete opposite of what the web sites of a couple of London councils say.
Is there a definitive answer? Where is it?
|
For Dulwich:
?A driver shall be committing an offence under this act by parking adjacent to a dropped footway or kerb which is provided for pedestrian or vehicular access. If the access is not shared by other premises, the local authority can only issue a penalty charge notice if requested to do so by the occupier of the premises.? (Transport for London Act 2003, Sec.14, Part 4b)
|
Thank you so much.
Now for an hour or two of studying Transport for London Act 2003. (Particularly Section 14).
|
|
I had arranged to pick up my mum Wed lunch time and when I went out to the car, I couldn’t get off my drive as someone had parked across it! Although I don’t have a drop kerb, there was lots of space down the road where they could have parked and not blocked anyone in. I left a note on their windscreen saying "next time they block someone’s car in, please consider where that person may have to go". I have just found that they have returned my note through my letterbox and written on the back "get your kerb dropped so that I don’t park here"! I cannot afford to get this done, last time I enquired it costs between £600-£1000 which I haven’t got spare! In any case, most decent people wouldn’t park across someone’s drive, drop kerb or not……..
|
|
if the kerb is not dropped it is an offence to drive over a footpath to access a property.......
|
if the kerb is not dropped it is an offence to drive over a footpath to access a property.......
No its not.
|
|
Is 'mounting the footpath' no longer an offence?
|
Is 'mounting the footpath' no longer an offence?
It is apart from to gain lawful access to a property (providing no obstruction is caused to pedestrians using the pavement at the time).
|
|
It is permitted to cross the footway to gain lawful access to a property.
Lawful access is by use of a correctly constructed crossing, causing a vehicle to cross a footway other than by using a correctly constructed crossing is an offence under the Highways Act 1980 Section 184.
There is also provision under the same Act and Section for the Local Authority to serve a notice on anyone who is contravening the law enabling the LA to construct a crossing place and recover the costs from the offender.
An offender is also liable for the recovery of any costs incurred by any utility to repair any damage caused to any of their plant which may be buried in the footway by the crossing of a vehicle. The inclusion of Section 184 was largely at the request of the utilities to prevent the large scale damage being caused to gas mains, water and sewage pipes, electricity cables and telecoms ducts or to allow them to recover the costs of the repairs. Utilities buried under footways were never designed to have the weights of motor vehicles driven across them, most being laid before the advent of mass vehicle ownership.
To that end, that without a correctly constructed crossing, with a dropped kerb, crossing the footway with a vehicle is an offence then I can't see protection as to any obstruction caused to the offender would be afforded by any other law.
|
|
So you're saying its an offence for the homeowner to park on his own driveway because the original planners didnt drop the kerbs? Total nonsense, magistrates havent got time for lunacy like that.
I do love how in instances of someone coming on here with a problem, this website does its best to find a pathetic 30 year old technicality to make it their fault and let the real offender off the hook. Very productive.
|
|
Just to confirm Cockle's posting. I had a garage and a driveway, but for some reason the previous owner of my property had never arranged a dropped kerb. Some local authority types must have spotted this, and I was indeed threatend with the ful force of the law!
I was warned that they would undertake regular checks to ensure I was not gaining access over the public footpath. I ended up having to pay up for a dropped kerb for £750.
|
|
And this is supposed to be a free country? Local councils really are vile, protection rackets run by Mafia's have more class.
|
|
Tell me Jamie. Do you park off the road and if so have you got a dropped kerb?
|
|
Yes i do park off the road. There is a dropped kerb at the main entrance which provides access to the parking at the rear of the properties so its not 'my' dropped kerb as such it was done when these few houses were built.
Tell me Tom, would you park across someones driveway even if they didnt have a dropped kerb just because technically you can? Even after they'd alerted you to how problematic it is?
|
|
Jamie, please kindly note that this is not a personal attack.
If you want to change the law, then by all means get it changed so that anyone parking where you see fit or unfit is prosecuted/not prosecuted. As someone else righly says, dropped kerbs are there for a reason, and the footpath has generally been fixed to accept the wieght of a car passing over it. yes there are lots of people parking irresponsably, and lots of people don't. Personally, if i can't park when i go into town, i don't park illegally, i just go off to the local hypershop with free parking and the town centre doesn't get my business. for the original poster, who doesn't seem to want to spend the money, it is difficult, but for the person who parks there, it is not illegal but it is stupid, and knowing it is stupid makes it worse, even if no civil or criminal offence has been committed.
ORB
|
|
I think it was mentioned on that thread that blocking a driveway is in itself an offence - even if you park your own car across your own driveway!
|
|
>>Tell me Tom, would you park across someones driveway even if they didnt have a dropped kerb just because technically you can?
I don't think I have and I don't think I would. I've got a dropped kerb to my drive, it wasn't cheap to have it installed.
Some people seem to want the advantages of car ownership without the cost. I pay my road excise duty for my cars, some don't.
|
|
Hi All, not trying to take sides or anything here, but it seems that there is conflict of moral and legal issues..
May I ask what the views are in the case where somebody rips down their front wall or fence and starts parking on their front lawn. Do we suddenly have the situation where vehicles that the previous day could park on the road adajcent to said fence can now no longer do so?
FTF
|
|
That council who is telling him to have a dropped kerb installed at rip off cost is the same council who allowed a house to be built there in the first place without one.
The law is a glorified protection racket and set up to force people to pay more money. To force you to pay for dropped kerb's they inflate the price of them and make the law such a way that you have little choice but to do so when it should be included in the original house building plans. If you move into a house with a driveway you expect to be allowed to park on it.
|
|
you haven't answered my question Jamie.
|
|
I apologise i didnt see that post but i sort of have answered it by pointing out the council which is forcing him to pay for a dropped kerb is the same council who gave planning permission for the driveway in the first place. So if they're going to give permission for that then surely its implied the occupier has permission to use it!
May I ask what the views are in the case where somebody rips down their front wall or fence and starts parking on their front lawn. Do we suddenly have the situation where vehicles that the previous day could park on the road adajcent to said fencecan now no longer do so?
Nobody hates the 'you cant park outside my house but i can park outside yours' nimby villagers more than i do. The people who think they own the road and pavement outside their house as well. However i would think in most cases like that the car which wouldve been parked adjacent to said fence were probably the homeowners cars which would have no need to be on the road if they were on the owners lawn.
Bottom line is i think anything which prevents cars having to park on the road if its possible for people to keep them off road should be encouraged rather than made financially difficult by local councils running protection rackets.
|
|
The lawful situation of the OP is largely irrelevant as to the moral situation of whether someone should park across his drive, that is really the issue.
Personally, I wouldn't park in a manner as to restrict his access whether legal or not anymore than I would sit in front of him on the motorway at 69 because the limit is 70; his decision as to whether he complies with the law as it stands is for him to decide, however, should he be prosecuted for speeding he could hardly have cause to complain.
All I was pointing out is the legality of the situation; should he choose to comply, or not, is his choice. If he chooses not to comply then he risks enforcement, at his cost, plus, a fine of £20 for the first offence of unlawfully crossing a pavement/verge and a fine of £50 for any subsequent offences. That is the law as it stands.
As to dropped kerbs being a council rip off we can argue the toss about the scale of charges being appropriate or not until the cows come home. Again, personally, I feel they are on the high side, however, a correctly constructed crossover is not just a question of dropping a couple of kerbstones it requires reinforcement across the whole of the pavement/verge width and the positioning and protection of any utilities has to be ascertained and carried out and anyone involved in highway civil engineering will tell you how expensive it can get!
Any new build property which has a driveway or a garage has to have a crossing provided to give access as part of the planning permission process therefore no driveway or garage in a new build property should exist without a dropped kerb. This is provided for in the 1980 Act and was also in its precursor the Highway Act 1971 as section 40. Thus no new build property which included a driveway in its plans should have been built without a crossing in the last 40 years.
The problem has mainly arisen due to the massively increased parking pressure in our older town areas and I have every sympathy for the people effected. Following the correct procedure to get a driveway constructed requires the permission of the local highway authority and they insist on a dropped kerb as part of that process. Part of this entails the authority being satisfied that there is enough room for the vehicle and that access is not a hazard to other road users. Most of these things are done for a reason. There is a case currently going to enforcement locally where a chap pulled down a side wall so that he could park in his back garden, the authority has taken the view that everything else is fine but to access his garden he has to travel against the flow of traffic in a busy one way street within feet of a blind bend - an accident just waiting to happen....
|
|
Thats always been my take on it along with evidence that there is an actual obstruction to a person at that time, in your case that the person needed to get out of their drive now not maybe at some point in the future.
Edited by Huon.cloutier on 08/11/2011 at 04:30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
