I know this has been covered before, but can't find the thread on the forum search.
Just received a ticket from a private parking control company for parking on a retail park car park but left the car for half hour when I went elsewhere. I did also buy something from one of the stores. The 'fine' is £85. I know there was a legal way to avoid this but can't find the way to do it.
Does anyone remember?
TIA
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ISTR that it is alleged that you are in breach of a 'contract' for the use of the land. It may be up to them to produce a copy of this 'contract' with your signature on it. You will get some good basic thoughts and possible template letters re this situation on pepippo. Also visit www.appealnow.com and/or google for "Parking Ticket appeals". Good luck beating the scamming scum!
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ISTR ? not come across that one before!.
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ISTR - I Seem To Recollect/Recall.
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If you did actually buy something from one of the stores, then what is the problem? Just send them the invoice and complain about them ticketing their own customers.
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Yes I will do that, but looking on pepipoo.com it seems not to wash with them - they are not interested in excuses only money. I have read however that they cannot unilaterally enforce a one-sided contract so unless you voluntarily pay, they have no leg to stand on. They have never taken anyone to Court because it will not wash.
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Entering the car park there would be 3/4 T&Cs in BIG Letters - normally that you shop and leave within say 1 hr/2hrs or whatever.
If you entered you are assumed to have accepted the T&Cs - they cannot insist on their full T&Cs as this would need to hbe agreed b4 you enter the car park.
If you bought something but did not immediately leave there is no problem as the "contract you entered" stated you enter, purchase & leave in a certain time.
I would let them go ahead and try and take you to court - all you have to do is "show the receipt" if it gets to court (which it will not do - they will give in long B4 this).
Then you take them to the small claims court (£30+ cost) - harrassment, time and effort + Court costs - again they will not turn up at court and you win by default. The court will then give you a "reasonable amount" in damages + expenses which they will have to pay or you send in the bailiffs/arrest their business bank account.
A few years ago a roofer in Stirling did work for a "Large Scottish Bank" for a few hundred pounds - the bill went unpaid for some reason - he got a court order with the Bank Property as security for the debt - a mistake was made and instead of the normal 1 building he got the Bank's entire Property Portfolio arrested - the bank paid within days as they could not transact any property sales for about a week.
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If you did actually buy something from one of the stores then what is the problem? Just send them the invoice and complain about them ticketing their own customers.
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and also tell the retailers concerned that this has put you and your associates off buying froim them in the future.
We must fight back against this sort of carp, as its bad enough living in a country where the public authorities want to bust you for tiny speeding and parking infractions, let alone some sort of privatre organised crime want to join in as well.
My friend was ticketed in Reading for unauthorised parking on private land, when in fact he had only stopped to let someone get out. They sent him a JPEG showing him stopped, so he sent back a JPEG of the cheque he wasn't going to send to them !
Vive la revolution !
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A good way of avoiding this is to just ignore it.
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I got one of these from McDonalds in Gatwick for overstaying. As stated, they rely on the driver having entered in to and then broken a contract.
DO NOT admit you were the driver. Sending in the receipt or a letter to them is half way to admitting you were the driver, unless you clearly state that you were not. In my case I sent them a letter saying I wasn't the driver and wouldn't be telling them who was because I didn't agree with their underhand enforcement methods and threatening demenour. I said that I wouldn't be paying, would see them in Court if they wished, and I heard no more about it.
They just rely on scared people falling for their threatening letters and paying up. They hardly ever take it further - and they can't take it further if they don't know who the driver is, as their contract is with them and not the RK.
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I'm interested in this case. I was involved in something similar last year, receiving a notice from the company managing parking for B & Q. I used their car park, went into the store, went elsewhere, lost track of the time and overstayed.
After much trawling on the internet I discovered a helpline to B & Q, phoned it and pointed out the amount claimed from me in no way reflected the cost to them of my overstaying and that it wasn't a fair "charge" for the privilege of parking there - in fact it was exorbitant. I offered to pay a reasonable amount - say £5.
I also said I had spent a huge amount with them over the years, but this sort of thing was enough to put me (and others - and there have been plenty of others - do some googling) completely off ever shopping there again. The guy took my details, said he would look into it and the charge was dropped.
I had already decided that if I got nowhere with the helpline I would wait to be taken to court and argue that the "penalty charge" imposed was unreasonable, no matter what the warning notices may say. There is also the issue of the parking company having to establish that a contract had been entered into, and, even it had, they would need to establish it was a reasonable contract. My understanding is that it is illegal to impose a penalty charge when no offence has actually been proved; it seems likely that a small claims court (if it got that far) would at worst impose a "reasonable" amount to be paid.
My guess is that such a case would be unlikely even to reach court.
Perhaps those Back-Roomers who are more expert with the law would like to comment.
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>>If you bought something but did not immediately leave there is no problem as the "contract you entered" stated you enter, purchase & leave in a certain time.
it depends on the car park. I know one where even leaving the retail site constitutes a breach of 'contract'.
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"it depends on the car park. I know one where even leaving the retail site constitutes a breach of 'contract'."
There is no legally binding contract - it isn't worth the sign it's printed on, you don't enter a contract when you drive into a carpark.
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I had one of these through for the Mondeo last year. The difference here is that I genuinelly wasn't the driver - I was 20 miles away with the BM and could, if required, have prooved that.
So, I simply wrote to them, informing them I was not the driver of the car in question at the time in question, and reminded them of of a certain section of the Road Traffic Act that stated a registered keepers obligation to reveal the driver of a vehicle, informing them that I was under absolutely no legal obligation to do so, and would they kindly leave me alone.
This wsa 6 months ago.
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Also bear in mind that the developers of retail parks want anchor stores such as B&Q present to attract customers who then shop at the other stores on the park too. So it doesn't make sense to fine visitors for doing exactly what the developer intended.
The other businesses on the park might have cause for concern if they got letters saying that, due to the heavy-handed treatment you'd received from the anchor tenant, not only do you not intend shopping there again, but you do not intend visiting the park at all.
No harm in reminding these self-appointed powers-that-be that without our custom, they'd soon be out of business!
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I've asked this before. Under what circumstances can the DVLA pass on your personal details to a third party without your permission? Is this not permissable under the Data Protection Act?
At what point do you agree they can share your personal details?
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Power for DVLA to disclose is at:
The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002
27. - (1) The DVLA may make any particulars contained in the register available for use
(a) by a local authority for any purpose connected with the investigation of an offence or of a decriminalised parking contravention;
(e) by any person who can show to the satisfaction of the Secretary of State that he has reasonable cause for wanting the particulars to be made available to him.
(2) Particulars may be provided to such a person as is mentioned in paragraph (1)(e) on payment of such fee, if any, of such amount as appears to the Secretary of State reasonable in the circumstances of the case.
What I understand, but I have no knowledge of civil law, is mentioned above.
DRIVER on parking in such circumstances then a contract is formed with owners of land - I agree to your terms in relation to parking conditions ( time, in space, no return etc) and if I breach then I am liable to a penalty.
If a Charge Notice is sent to the registered owner then unlike Road Traffic Act parking etc there is nothing at law I know of that the Reg keeper has to disclose who the driver was and identify him. He has also no involvement in the 'contract'. The persons enforcing such Car Parks would have to sue the DRIVER through Civil Court for the penalty owned. If they can IDENTIFY THE DRIVER - visual at the time - CCTV - then they are somewhere being able to do so, other wise ?
Anecdotal evidence here and elsewhere would suggest they lose interest if the above applies and are informed so.
Whilst the above seems to be a 'get out clause' I would remind people that companies do provide parking which is abused and through enforcement try to provide spaces for the genuine need.. Over abuse and they may withdraw then when does one park?
dvd
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Very many thanks DVD, that's clear.
Pay money, get personal data!
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This is a real pain these days, I'm sure you'll get it sorted G. Interesting that this sort of thing isn't allowed in Scotland because it's seen as extortion
Was thinking separately today that this relies on your entering into a contract with the land owner based on tiny signs 3 miles away from your car. Could we define terms on my car that anyone interfering it enters into a contract whereby they have to pay me £300 for inconvenience - for example, ticketing me or attaching a clamp. A nice A4 poster in a side window perhaps?
-- Biggedy biggedy bong
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This is a real pain these days I'm sure you'll get it sorted G. Interesting that this sort of thing isn't allowed in Scotland because it's seen as extortion
NOT true - Tesco et al try to enforce parking with penalties in Scotland
However Private Clampers are not on the Scottish scene as they are treated as a means of extortion. Local Authorities & their appointed agents can clamp.
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I was threatened with a ticket for pulling into a partially coned off lay-by at Liverpool Airport. Nasty little twerp in a hi-vis waistcoat that he mistook for a warrant card told me the cameras had got my plate and "you'll be hearing from us" that was about 18 months ago I think.
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However Private Clampers are not on the Scottish scene as they are treated as a means of extortion. Local Authorities & their appointed agents can clamp.
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The good old sensible Scots !
It would be a good place to live if it wasn't so cold up there !
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>>>It would be a good place to live if it wasn't so cold up there !
Indeed; particularly for the older generation. As long as they don't mind the weather.
Clk Sec
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