Right, now its not been that long since I asked for advice as to what to buy to replace my Terracan, but with the recent bad weather I'm starting to regret changing from a 4x4 to a Vectra. So, am probably going to be back in the market for a 4x4 either to use as my car, or as a second car to take when the weather is bad or I need to visit a site.
Budget - hmm, main car: upto £15K ish, second car: upto £7.5/8K
So, my options:-
Hyundai Terracan - had one, liked it. Will go anywhere, fairly cheap to run and warranty still valid for a couple of years at least. However, only 25-28mpg average (the lower figure on motorway runs)
Jeep Patriot - bit smaller than the Terra. However is trail rated. Can wade at the same depth as the Terracan (we have a Ford just up the road from us). Good fuel economy though, at 42.2mpg
Jeep Commander - If it drops in price a little
Isuzu Trooper - again a fullsize 4x4. This would be as a seocnd car. The 3.0DT. Don't know much about them though
Mitsubishi Shogun
Mercedes ML
Then there are the obvious pickups - Hilux, L200, Navara, etc...
I know that some of these vehicles are very different! But anyone elses thoughts much appreciated!
The conditions where we live (South Shropshire/Worcestershire border) can obviously vary, but in general: Deep Water, Deep Snow, Fairly thick mud, Fords, steep hills.
Come on then, lets have some comments.....
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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The conditions where we live (South Shropshire/Worcestershire border) can obviously vary, but in general: Deep Water, Deep Snow, Fairly thick mud, Fords, steep hills.
In Shropshire I thought you were describing the foothills of the Hymalays.Its amazing how 95% of the car owning population manage without a 4x4.
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Wow, sounds like really tough going! I think you'll need a Pinzgauer to be honest, and forget these feeble 4x4s, you need a 6x6
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With all due respect Andy, a large number of households in the village where we live have at least one 4x4 vehicle due to the number of hills and the fact that in the 6months we have been there, the village has been cut off twice. I would also guess that 95% of the population live in fairly urban areas. Our nearest 'proper' supermarket (ie not a cornershop) is 12 miles away. If I lived in the centre of town, a smart car would suit me down to the ground.
Whether the rest of the population manage without a 4x4 or not, it is my requirement for a vehicle to have good ground clearance and 4x4 operation.
Anyone have any constructive comments on the 4x4s that I am suggesting, or some other alternatives?
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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a smart car would suit me down to the ground. >> >> my requirement for a vehicle to have good ground clearance >>
Nice choice of words there!
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One does what one can to provide some light entertainment.....
But on the subject of the weather - has no one paid any attention to the fact that it snowed at Christmas, its flooding now? I don't mind not being able to get to work, but I want to make damn sure I can get home without having to walk for 5 or 6 miles from the main road.
I also want to make sure I can get on a site without ripping the front bumper off (which has nearly happened with the Vectra - not the most practical building site car)
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My dad used to live on the Welsh\Shropshire border in a very steep isolated situation ( he's now moved in with us) and he had a Jazz and an old Land Rover which was kept just for poor weather situations, so that's another suggestion. ( To be honest the number of days a year he used the LR was pretty low-if you're buying a 4x4 purely on the basis of needing it to cope with difficult weather it's a pretty poor investment) We spend part of the year in the Montagne Noire region of SW France, which terrain-wise is pretty similar to Wales but higher so tends to have fairly extreme weather with snow common in the winter and there are hardly any 4x4s there-they seem to manage when we can't here, which seems to back up the 4x4 as a fashion accessory rather than necessity idea.
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Citroen C5? Big, comfy, smooth and relaxing on good roads; adjustable ride height for those building-site and farm-track moments. An HDI 2.0 won't struggle on the hills and should give 45mpg overall. Looks fabulously different in bright metallic red, too.
Alternatively, if you just need something for occasional rough and ready use, most of rural France gets about in Berlingo or Peugeot (not Audi }:---( ) Partner Multispaces. Last summer, I was taken on a wildlife tour of some pretty approximate marshland roads in a Berlingo, which seemed perfectly suited to the task and never got stuck or grounded on anything, despite having five people aboard.
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Some interesting comments. Thanks for those so far.
Just to make some return comments - fashion accessory, definitely not! If it was a fashion accessory I was after, I would be buying something with street cred eg an X5. What I think I'm after is a workhorse 4x4 eg the Isuzu or the Terra. Then when I'm visiting the sites that are halfway down a field it gives me some comfort. They also tend to have the bigger loadspace so that when we go out as a family we can get everything in including the dog!
lordwoody - your father couldn't have been too far away from me - I'm not too far from Ludlow.
The biggest problem with the terrain is the hills - I come from Leeds and thought that had some steep hills, but there nothing until you try to get up Clows Top in the snow. Now that is fun!! Luckily I still had the old Terracan when the snow was bad in winter!
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Does anyone have any experience of running these vehicles? ie running costs, comfort, reliability etc..
I know the Terra is fairly good, but know next to nothing about the others!
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I'm puzzled as to why you thought a Vectra could cope with the conditions you describe - did something change to suggest that an ordinary car was the right choice and now they've changed back?
Anyway, sounds like you need a Subaru Forester or Outback.
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My dad used to live on the Welsh\Shropshire border in a very steep isolated situation ( he's now moved in with us) and he had a Jazz and an old Land Rover which was kept just for poor weather situations
For some baffling reason, Jazz is available in Japan with 4 wheel drive. Pity it's not sold here too - after all, their cars are RHD so no engineering work would be required.
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I also want to make sure I can get on a site without ripping the front bumper off (which has nearly happened with the Vectra
How did that happen, then?
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In a broadly similar situation -- except for the fords -- my wife has run various small 4x4s happily for the last 10 years, i.e. Citroen BX 4x4 estate, Daihatsu YRV and currently a Suzuki Jimny. Before that we had a VW Transporter Syncro which was a very specialised beast but briliant. The Daihatsu and Jimny appear too small for your needs and the Jimny too slow for frequent long journeys although it's the best off-road thanks to a low ratio transfer box. Nearest to the BX would be a Subaru estate but I don't know if that would be heavy enough to risk in a fast-flowing ford. From experience in Africa, Toyota builds the strongest and most durable pickups and SUVs -- and they stop a light calibre bullet quite well -- but frankly the Terracan still sounds the best compromise on price and ability. You may already know the spares situation and any risks involved there. I find the Patriot mpg hard to believe and think you just have to accept that if you have a need for a biggish 4x4 then there are penalties in fuel consumption. Your quoted fuel consumption figures for the Terracan seem reasonable to me.
As for all this stuff about the French not driving 4x4s, don't believe it. I can buy five glossy French 4x4 magazines in West Africa and have just spent 10 days in the Auvergne where there are numerous French-registered 4x4s. Perhaps they are not in Paris or Nice but they are used as working vehicles in the sticks. And, I agree the Berlingo/Partner is an excellent rough road vehicle but they are also available, as I have posted before, with a limited slip differential and raised suspension which makes a very worthwhile difference.
Incidentally,there is a RHD Peugeot 505 Dangel 4x4 estate for sale on Ebay currently which I would be very interested in if it was LHD. That would do much of what you want in a second car.
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Jeep = Chrysler= unreliable carp... no wonder MB are selling it.
Avoid: list of faults too long.
madf
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Amazing I know various people with Jeeps of varying flavours all have been reliable & in the Car Mechanics buying guide only real thing they picked up on is axle noise & cracked heads on VMs.
I know of people with Discos & RR that have had far more problems.
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Thanks Harmattan!
The spares re the Terracan - they aren't always easily available (12 weeks wait when I had mine for a part), however, they did sell well in other parts of the world, so spares should be available some way or another.
The Patriot engine is the VW 2.0 140bhp diesel. The Terracan mpg is what I achieved with the 148bhp manual. The 160bhp might be slightly better.
Still weighing up the options....
As for the Vectra - the bumper caught on a rut where the machine had been tracking and also caught on a steep incline (the SRI is factory lowered and the skirt at the bottom is only about 3" off the ground). The reason I bought it mainly is because it was cheap, good performance and good mpg. I'd just changed jobs from a 45 mile per day commute to 110 mile per day, so it seemed like a good idea....
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that Pug 505 Dangel looks absolutely fantastic! Never knew a 4x4 variant existed. The 505 is my favourite estate, an extremely comfy long distance cruiser. I've had 3 of them, only had to switch to Previas (via a VW caravelle which was dreadful) when my 6'7" son couldn't get in the back anymore. I always thought I look for a 505 gti when he got his own car but now I'm sorely tempted with this - don't have any need for a 4x4 though so I'd never convince SWMBO.
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Phil-my dad lived at Kerry,near Newtown. Sorry about the fashion accesory jibe! Daihatsu Fourtraks are pretty tough beasts too, forgot about those. The good thing about an old Landy is there's no need to be too precious about them and they're great for some serious off-roading too.
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Fourtraks are the farmers' favourite around here and seem to be able to get through just about anything. Landrovers "Too expensive new and too much trouble old" according to my sons of the soil mates. Fourtraks are really dreadful on-road though--very crude and harsh-riding and noisy. I wouldn't fancy commuting in one.
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My sister lives in a remote part of exmoor.She finds her Honda CRV CRTDI works just fine.Although it is mostly 2WD with 4WD on demand,it copes well in mud and more importantly gives her better ground clearance than her previous car.On the very narrow country lanes,she regularly has to drive up embankments to allow farm machinery and other large vehicles to pass.She also acheives 42mpg around exmoor and 47mpg on runs up to the home counties.
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I still must be missing the point here (hence my Pinzgauer post). A Vectra which has a ground clearance of 3 inches isn't suitable for site visits. To take a phrase from an American teenager - duh?!
Are these building sites? I'd have thought that anything that wasn't lowered or have a flimsy plastic spoiler would be fine.
Of course you're welcome to buy any car you like because you like it, but needing a 4x4, and a "proper 4x4" at that? Don't try and justify it IMHO because it smacks of trying too hard.
Is there really anything that would trouble a Subaru Legacy, or a Volvo Cross Country given a modicum of sensible driving?
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It was a change in sector - moving from housebuilding into contracting. I'm used to a site compound being tarmacced, and the road into the site being at the worst compacted hardcore. So when I went on my first site visit and found that there was both no black-topped car park and no proper road I began to think that the Vectra might be a mistake. But I love the look of the Vectra (you don't normally hear that said...).
The Subaru Legacy doesn't come as a diesel I believe? The XC is quite expensive for what it is.
Perhaps my choice of 'proper 4x4' was a little ambiguous - by proper I mean full time 4wd, large enough to get the kids seats and double buggy in, so that rules out some of the smaller 4x4s. I want to be able to drive without being kicked in the back by my oldest child (he's not even 2 yet, but is just getting to the stage where he can kick me).
Lordwoody - we are in Cleobury Mortimer, so about 25 miles ish from where your father was I think. The fourtraks are okay - although they do seem to be driven by 70year old women round my neck of the woods!! The idea of a Landie is slightly romantic, but following an m-reg one yesterday, the tyres seemed to small.... !! They aren't half expensive as well.
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Fullchat - the Kia Sorento is definitely on the 'MAYBE' list - it is a nice looking car with a good towing weight and proven ability. You very rarely hear any complaints about it, either in this country or others.
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The Nissan X-trail might also be a 'definite maybe'.
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Skoda Octavia 4x4 Estate.
Loads of load space.
All wheel drive only kicks in when required.
50mm extra ground clearance than the regular estate.
102PS diesel engine, easily chipped to 130PS.
Get a set of winter tyres on steel wheels for the Arctic conditions that Shropshire apparently suffers from ;-)
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