Just had some of the stats come in and it makes some interesting reading.
On the eastern road, coming into the village from a 60 to 30 mph, 41% of cars were exceeding 36 mph and a massive 73.8% were breaking 36mph heading out of the village so all would have been fined if a camera had been sited there. Furthermore, 93% of drivers were exceeding the 30mph limit coming into the village although may not have been caught on a camera.
On the road past the primary school which is more important still, westbound 51% were exceeding 36 mph, eastbound 55%. This is past a school from which children have to cross the road from a blind bend, which is fine in the given length of road if the cars do the limit, dangerous if they dont.
How many were doing between 30 and 36 is yet to come in.
Since the road into my close is also on this blind bend, it also affects those of us who live here and have to try and pull out infront of speeding cars which all too often results in no car, pull out then your mirrors are filled with a car that just wasnt there seconds ago and has been the site of many near misses for many residents.
There is a campaign building for cameras in several sites despite the villages being relatively small on account of the utter disregard for the limits and the children going to school.
I think its astounding how little regard drivers seem to have for the circumstances on these roads.
There are many blind driveways that you have to nudge out into the road before people can see if its clear such is the age of the place aswell as the school.
Personally, id like to see hidden cameras - if you break the law, its willingly and if your willing to speed, your accepting the risk of getting caught! There really is no defense when driving past a school either.
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Speeding is one aspect of bad driving and I agree its a problem - especially in a village with a school and blind bends - sounds like a number of the drivers were driving beyond the distance they could see.
But ... It would be good if the other aspects of bad driving were given equal prominence.
How many of the drivers were on their phones? driving too close? not paying attention? etc.
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But ... It would be good if the other aspects of bad driving were given equal prominence. How many of the drivers were on their phones? driving too close? not paying attention? etc.
I can't wait until somebody invents a 'not paying attention' camera ;-). I suspect that the number of drivers that tailgate is probably similar, ie. over 90% of drivers, but both speeding and tailgating depend a lot on the conditions.
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Those numbers really are shocking, especially on that kind of road. These statistics suggest that over 90% of drivers are unable to choose a safe speed based on the road conditions, and either completely ignore the law or are incapable of maintaining a speed anywhere near the limit. These same drivers are the people who think speed cameras should be banned, and who think motorway limits should be increased.
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Is your own feeling that drivers go too fast through your village and are dangerous stunorthants?
I ask because these sort of statistics can be misleading. Lots of 30 limits ought to be 40. But I agree, some, not many, need to be 20.
Sounds as if a pedestrian bridge or traffic light outside the school might be a good idea.
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Thu 21 Jun 07 19:34 Speeding stats for my village - Screwloose
stu
You've got a real problem there; but bland statistics don't tell the whole story. How many of those 51% speeding past the school were doing so at night. What were the speeds during the critical periods? [Anyway; as long as you hit them when you're doing less than 40 they always survive - don't they...?]
Why were vehicular entrances/side turnings permitted around blind bends without adequate visibility splays? Why are the corners blind? Hedges?
Forget speed cameras; you won't get the money from them and they won't work. There will always be a small percentage that won't respond to them and those that will only slow down across the actual camera markings. [Don't put them near a school; everyone will be staring at their dash, not the kids crossing...]
Instead; use the Highland approach and reduce the length of the speed restiction to the bare minimum with a 300 yard, 3-stage, "30 limit in...yds" countdown board lead-in at both ends - probably from where the limit now starts. Shorter limits get more respect because they cost less in lost time.
Create a very noticable "Village Gateway" at either end of the village at the start of the shorter limit and mark the road there with clear "30" red rumble zones. [Many people caught for speeding don't even know the limit is there. I myself often miss the signs when I'm on the phone.] Apply for a 20 zone outside the school when the crossing lights are active. [Another brilliant Scots idea.]
Then; inside the gateways, remove all road markings and kerbs and then resurface with brown [Bridport] gravel from hedge to hedge. This creates a feeling of insecurity, unease and "shared road ownership" in drivers and will have a far greater effect on overall speed than cameras.
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Good stuff Screwloose. Like it.
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SFAIK speed limits may only be reduced in 20 mph 'steps' ie a 60 to 30 isn't legal. That doesn't mean that I think what is happening is right, in any way, but what OP describes does not comply with the law. Standing by for informed comment from DVD and others of a legal persuasion!
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Well its national speed limit going into 30mph - very common in the UK? National speed limit on single carriageway is 60 is it not?
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It certainly is ie 60 to 30 is 'normal'. I will try and find reference to my claim that the limit may only be reduced is 20 mph increments!
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The road is extremely quiet 'offpeak' and rush hour is very busy as its a shortcut between major roads.
The village is old and the layout hasnt been changed in 100 years, nor could it due to preservation issues - anyway, its safe if you follow the rules.
Some good ideas but its about money I guess.
Short speed limit areas would be unsuitable as we have a 1/4 mile space between our twin villages which at certain times of the day has a lot of children and parents walking back home, so a higher limit wouldnt really work as it needs to extend as we actually have parents who walk thei kids to school here, alien as that sounds to many!
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Some parts of Scotland have reduced the speed limit in any village with a school, down to 20mph, through the whole built-up area.
I much prefer the apparent philosophy in the US where the speed limit is varied according to the level of hazard.
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Local village has a long straight road - 30mph limit. School on one side, lots of housing on the other. I would say 5 years ago the 'average' speed along there was 45mph, with the odd car doing a lot more. Its that kind of road, long, straight and with good visibility.
Unfortunately there were a number of accidents involving pedestrians, including a couple of fatalities. Several kids knocked down (yes, they may have been larking about and not paying attention etc etc).
Anyway, on basis of casualties speed camera went up about 4 years ago. Almost everyone now sticks to 30mph limit (apart from dopey out-of-towners who don't read camera signs). I have not heard of any pedestrian accidents since, although one car did skid off the road and hit a bus stop post the other week - but there were some 'odd ball' factors invoved (elderly driver).
Anyway, its this case that has made me a believer in speed cameras for certain sites.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't like speed cameras unless they are located on the road where they live. E.g. there is a road near me runs from the bypass into town. Fairly quiet road that's always been a 60mph limit - seems appropriate. However the road is lined with a number of very large and smart houses - with large, smart and fast cars parked in their courtyards. These residents are currently lobbying like hell for the limit to be reduced from 60 - 40mph and 'traffic calming' measures to be put in. There is another similarly 'smart' loop road that runs off this main road, that is a very very quiet road. It has 20mph limit and speed humps....
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These residents are currently lobbying like hell for the limit to be reduced from 60 - 40mph and 'traffic calming' measures to be put in.
Traffic calming seems sensible to me, as long as it's not speed bumps. Chicanes, road narrowing (keeps HGVs away), islands, all good ideas to me.
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[Many people caught for speeding don't even know the limit is there. I myself often miss the signs when I'm on the phone.]
I can only assume that is supposed to be a joke.
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AS
I think in previous posts I refered to DfT Circular Road 1/93 as the gospel that they use for guidlines on setting of speed limits.
I can now report that the latest is DfT Circular Roads 1/06 and for your perusal:
tinyurl.com/2m2j4p
There is no obligation for them to step down from NSL to 30 mph by use of intermediatery limits but many do use a 40 to act as a buffer if necesssary before the 30 mph kicks in.
In the distance past I seem to recal reading somewhere that in relation to road works DfT guidance speed limits had to be stepped down 20 mph lower than that normally i.e. DCW down from 70 to 50 and single carriageway to 40mph.
dvd
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Sounds like you've got the same issues as our village....
cmis.sefton.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Docum...4
Traffic, which is very busy at rush hour as we are a cut through route for people heading to Liverpool, has an absolute blatant disregard for anybody who happens to get in the way. The road is probably three car widths - when I've been waiting at the side of the road in order to reverse in I've been beeped at, sworn at, and 'fingered' at - all because I've dared to get in their way.
At night, the road turns in to an unlit race track, even with the presence of speed humps (which are pretty ineffective -although the report says otherwise.
Oh yes, and occasionally, in the middle of the night a joker or two thinks it's funny to press their horn at one end of the village and drive through with the horn blaring. Ha bleeding ha.
I've emailed the Police asking for speed checks in the area but AFAIK there has been nothing.
Harrumph.
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As I understand it, the research was paid for and arranged by the parish as it has been a much talked about subject for some time now.
Even during the day, cars driving past the school can be doing an easy 50, easy enough to judge because they need so long to brake when they come around the corner and realise a very sharp left is coming up.
As much as you can argue that there should be more road signs and the like, the fact remains, when you enter the village, you have a large 30 sign, clearly visable with the smaller reminder signs throughout the village, plus school signs at both ends, which, if a driver is paying minimum of attention, is all you need to know the speed limit and road conditions/hazards.
The speed limit is appropriate, but a good 50% of people, who most likely dont live in the village, think they are above the law and know better.
Just to compound the problem further still, we have a 7.5T weight limit, which is almost totally ignored and has also featured in the parish magazine.
Lets just say this - to those who speed and ignore weight limits - you are being watched and we know what your doing :-)
The sad thing is that only when some pink fluffy dice in a BMW has a 6 yo child go through their windscreen will something happen and then it will be far too late.
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Interesting. Stu, how many accidents have there been in the last 5 years? How many accidents involving injury?
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Not a clue but we had a dustbin lorry go on its side the other day! That was kinda funny as they block our close up while they sit in middle of the road having their teabreak so I guess what goes around, came around.
I know that I am extremely careful when I leave my road and when driving thro the village but then I know what to expect.
May get more stats next month as it said that there are more to come.
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One thing the original poster does not tell us is the time of day (or night ) the statistics relate to.
Exceeding the speed limit when driving past a school at 3am would generally be quite safe, which would not be the case at 3pm. Unfortunately cameras do not differentiate.
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How do you obtain these stats?
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How do you obtain these stats? <<
They were in parish magazine. They had speed traps set up on every major road in the village and results are 24 hours.
Regardless of the time of night, the law still applies.
Given the the road is extremely quiet at night and only busy during school hours and rush hour, one would imagine that much of the speeding was done during the busy periods as it would need significant numbers to get to 50%. One person doing 50 mph through the trap every couple of hours at night wont make a lot of difference to the percentages.
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Ask your local police and fire services. Our fireservice has a speedcamera (and trained user) that gets loaned out to do these sort of surveys. Parish council can ask for them to come and check
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Presumably once upon a time the road was unmetalled and full of potholes. Whose bright idea was it to turn it into a speed track?
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how many of these drivers on the stats were emergency service drivers?...do you have a police station, ambulance station, fire station nearby?.....they can skew the figures
the middle of the night option as mentioned above can skew figures
furthermore, i've lost count of the times local people have requested traffic speeding enforcement and then when it appears, have been done themslelves
also, it is very easy to blame 'others'
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We dont have any emergency services nearby no.
You would have to have alot of people driving around at 3am to make an impression on a count of 11,000+ cars.
Well I blame others - I was overtaken by an 'other' today outside the school at 3:30pm while I was doing 30 on the dot. The road IS smooth and you could probably do 60 down it until just past the school, but I could also do 60 through the town centre if it was clear, but it wouldnt make it safe nor legal.
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I hate to be controversial but surely speeding stats are meaningless without accident stats, or information about why the speed limit was put in in the first place (eg due to accidents in the past). If people are speeding but there have been no accidents, then perhaps the limit is too low. If there have been accidents (which can reasonably be shown to have been caused by speed, eg not your dustbin lorry going over), then enforcement is needed. If there are still accidents with enforcement then the limit is too high and needs to turn into a 20.
I'm not trying to suggest there is no problem as clearly people shouldn't be speeding past a school during day time hours, and it does sound like you have a challenging pull out from your road. But for anyone (including the police) to make an informed decision about what needs doing, I would have thought accident stats are far more important than speeding stats.
In reality this kind of situation is a possible case for variable limits according to time of day. A school near where I used to live had flashing signs that they could turn on and off that turned the limit into a 20 at appropriate hours. If this was done, with enforcement of the 20 (but not necessarily the 30 out of hours) then perhaps this would reduce the perceived 'dangerous' speeding where people are risking hitting the kids, but allow people to continue as now at higher speeds out of hours, if they are not having or causing accidents.
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