Hi folks,
My wife's been having problems with her 2003 Renault Laguna 1.6 petrol in the past week or so.
She was out doing some shopping last Friday week when the car refused to start back up. She reckons it was running extremely 'growly' prior to parking it. (Direct quote!)
Garage towed it back, diagnosed a faulty crank angle sensor and replaced it the same day under warranty (6 months, 6000 miles), we've had the car for 4 months.
Didn't really drive it until last weekend when we took it on a 400 mile round trip. On this trip we noticed that:
* starting the car seemed more laboured than usual (usually went on the second turn, afterwards took > 1 second, all temps)
* Very low idle such that the engine shook in the bay, ~600rpm,
* Distinct lack of power
Anyhow it all came to a head on Sunday morning when it stalled when pausing in traffic. Limped it home after that, and had the AA man out an hour later, and told him about the repair.
He examined the sensor, and found that it was indeed new, but for some reason the connections were different and the mechanic had cut the wires on the loom and attached the new sensor by simply twisting the wires together and popping some insulating tape over, and only on one of the wires!
The AA guy said that he'd never seen anything like it in his career, and the car in his opinion was 'an accident waiting to happen'.
So went down to the garage yesterday morning, calmly but firmly stated my point about, in my opinion, that the repair could have been responsible for a fatality if we'd been unlucky. The service guy said (direct quote) that the AA were 'drama queens', and that there's a backup in the ECU that ensures that the car goes into limp mode if the sensor fails, and won't simply cut out.
So, who's right? Let me add that the garage did not apologise about the fault, but fixed it by soldering and shrink wrapping the wires properly.
Any opinions would be most welcome.
BA
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It does not matter who is right there is NO excuse for bad workmanship.
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Clearly they failed to show sufficient care, or exercise suffient skill in effecting the repair.
Hard to say what you can do about it tho. You havent paid them money to fix it, you are not financiually out of pocket due to the poor repair, the "accident wating to happen" argument does not really carry any weight (supposition).
You dont really want to upset them too much till the warranty is over. So keep an eye on any future dealings with them and when the warranty is over dont go back there.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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How are crank angle sensors fitted to the engine in the factory? Even soldering and insulating seems a bit gash. I can't imagine that it isn't some sort of multi plug but who knows, with French electrics?
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Who CARES about upsetting the garage!!! They treated you abysmally and to give you a fob off about the AA being drama queens is disgreaceful. They did a shoddy repair - they are responsible. There may well be a limp home mode but do you REALLY want to limp home on a 400 mile round trip??? I know I would'nt.
I think you need to find out who owns the garage and write to him telling him how you've been treated.
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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I'm thinking along the same lines as TVM on this one - don't want to upset them too much until the warranty is up (car is due it's NCT - Irish equivalent of it's MOT next month, and they've guaranteed to fix anything that fails). So I think I'll have to bite my tongue for the moment.
The garage is an independent and is very much a family affair by the looks of things, including the service guy. So a letter would probably go straight from the letter box to the waste bin.
Anyhow when that warranty is up, then it's most definitely back to my usual guy who looks after my 406 for any future servicing/repairs.
Just disappointing really. What really got my goat was that the repair could have led to a dramatic further loss of power at any moment if the sensor had shorted - doesn't bear thinking about in the middle of an overtake!
Many thanks,
BA
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would you let this garage do your brakes?
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"They have guaranteed to fix anything on which it fails" - do you wanted another temporary bodged up repair. Also your thoughts re a family run garage and any letter will go straight into the bin don't quite add up - to me at least. I have found family garages are just that, one is greeted by name and one's business is valued. My local family garage wouldn't dream of ignoring a communication in any form, phone, email or letter.
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I can explain this one for you - I've just fixed a Laguna with the exact same problem.
If you attempt to buy a new crank angle sensor from Renault they are only available as a modifed part and you have to buy the modified wiring loom to go with it, as the new style sensor has a slightly different wiring connection plug on it. The modified wiring loom is basically nine inches of twin core wire, with a plug on one end. What you are supposed to do is cut into the old engine wiring loom, remove the old wiring for for crank angle sensor and splice in the new modified wiring loom. This to me is not a good way to do a quality durable repair and at around £25 for the sensor and then another £25 for the new wiring loom neither is it good value for money.
So what I did was send the new parts back to the Renault dealer and instead went to GSF. They were able to supply me with a crank angle sensor exactly the same as the orignal one, even made by Siemens, as was the original. It only cost £20 too and obviously was a direct replacement and no wiring alterations were needed. The orignal sensor had lasted nearly five years so i would expect this one to do about the same.
As for the sensor and limp home mode, you should find that either the car will start or it won't. If it can't detect the crank angle when turning over then the car will not fire at all. If the car is running and it then loses the signal from the crank angle sensor it will not cut out and instead will enter its limp home mode.
I hope this clears up some of the mystery.
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but what is next to go wrong- and when?, electric wise.
keep the AA memebrship active I'd say
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Simon - many thanks for the explanation. Sounds exactly what we experienced, obviously instead of splicing the modified loom in, they just spliced the sensor (badly at that).
It also tallies with the initial breakdown - running roughly until the car was stopped, and then steadfastly refusing to start. Obviously the poor splice was causing the sensor to drop out intermittently since then.
Lesson learned - always have a valid AA membership and a decent, trustworthy mechanic!
Thanks again,
BA
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PS. During this whole ordeal, the engine management light never came on once. So much for engine diagnostics - give me points and distributor any day :)
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PPS. Armitage - The NCT in Ireland is independent of garages - only designated NCT centres may carry out the test and they are not authorised, much less equipped, to carry out any repairs. So if something is considerably amiss, then you have to go back to your mechanic/dealership for a fix. Something which I stated to the service guy about me not wanting to see him again, and him probably thinking the same :)
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