Has anyone else out there found modern (post approx 2000) cars to be vastly inferior to mid nineties cars to drive? Modern cars seem incapable of soaking up bumps competently and have fiddly rides that I find highly uncomfortable. I'm on my fifth car now since selling my 96 Astra 2 years ago and at my wits end trying to find something that has the feel I want. I've had 2 vectra's (the first one was so bad, I thought there was something wrong with it, hence the 2nd Vectra - which was even worse), a new shape Mondeo, a Volvo S40 and a BMW 3 series compact.
In my opinion, all of these have been dreadful to drive compared to the cars I used to drive in the 90's, and maybe even the 80's. Can anyone recommend a medium size car that has a supple suspension and a civilised, smooth drive? Preferably not French, and pref not a Ford or Vauxhall and 3k - 4k to spend. I was thinking maybe a Seat Leon. HELP!
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I think older cars probably had better feel. People these days seem to thing a car is an extension of their lounge, they want a mobile phone, a radio, air con, comfy seats, hundreds of airbags, and a car bigger than their neighbours.
I haven't had much experience of cars, but I must admit that I have been very dissapointed with the ride on some cars that I've been in. Modern Fiestas seem to make me feel a little sick, but I didn't mind the older Fiesta that Iuse to have driving lessons in. The Toyota Aygo felt very bouncy on one piece of road which almost made me feel sick in a test drive. On a test drive I also found that the Fiat Panda had a horrible drone noise on one road. I can't remember any older cars being like these, but maybe I just didn't notice it? I certainly haven't noticed any of these problems in my current car, so I decided to stick with it and save myself thousands of pounds :).
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If you want a supple ride keep away from the leon, it is "firm" to be polite.
Actually I think your memory is playing tricks.
I have been driving new cars since 1979 and the last three (scenic, laguna, touran) have had very good rides.
If you want a soft supple ride - you *have* to go French.
Its probably due less to modern cars having a harsh ride, and more to do with our roads getting worse.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"If you want a soft supple ride - you *have* to go French."
Not necessarily. A lot depends on the wheel specification. My current Renault has a very poor ride as it's fitted with 17'' low profile alloys. Damn things, worst mistake I've made. Every little imperfection is transmitted through the steering and cabin. I've driven the same model but with 16'' wheels and it's a different car... Other Renaults we have owned had excellent rides.
One of the best rides I've experienced was in a Rover 75.
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Agree absolutely about the Rover 75: But even these are subject to variation, even with the same size of tyre.
Had one from new, with original Dunlop tyres: Like a magic carpet ride.
Changed the tyres: The depot happened to have Pirellis in stock.
Completely ruined the ride.
But generally, higher profile tyres are a good idea, which means, usually, avoiding the higher spec vehicles, as for some reason, these seem to be the ones which manufacturers fit rubber band tyres to.
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Rover 75 is certainly very cosseting and does a good job of isolating you from the road.
Just avoid low profile tyres on these as it dramatically changes the ride, so base models are better than the top models.
You should keep trying - what your trying to find is pretty hard when you avoid the very country that makes cars with ride bias dynamics.
If anything, your next port of call is something large and american.
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Not everyone will be a fan of the way they drive, but large Korean cars (things like the Sonata) are built to US ride requirements, and hence while they can be a bit wallowy, they're generally as smooth as most French cars. And of course you get the usual strong reliability and long warranties.
Like I say, not to everyone's taste, but if it's a softer ride you're after...
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The 15" OEM wheels provide a superb ride on the Rover 75, with the 16" coming a close second. The 17 and 18's lose it totally imo. Continental Premium Contacts have proved to be the best tyres for ride and noise on the 75 and were fitted at build from 2001 on - they don't last as long as others but still good for up to 20k miles
hth.
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My 316i has the big, fat standard high profiles yet it copes very badly on poor roads and over cats eyes. I had the same prob with the Mondeo and found the ride to be utterly tiresome. Interestingly though, I drove this car in France and it felt completely different on their ultra smooth roads. That said, I don't believe our roads are what's causing my discontent with modern cars, although it could be that cars now are made primarily to suit the smoother roads on the continent, which, after all is a bigger market for most manufacturers than the UK alone.
I think a French car may have the feel I'm looking for, but I hate the crappiness which is inherent in them. A Rover 75 is too big and I don't feel old enough to own one at 39. I've also seen too many of them stuck on hard shoulders.
Another point I want to make is that I think a car can be firm yet still have a supple, tidy ride, unlike my BM which is firm but just doesn't feel 'tight', ie there's a certain looseness over bumps and potholes. If I'd driven this 10 or 15 years ago I'd have thought it had had a hard life, but it hasn't, it just seems to be the norm nowadays.
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My Honda Jazz [2006 model] has the best ride of any car I have owned. On a smooth road the ride has a "magic carpet" feel. When the roads get rougher it copes very well and does not transmit harshness into the cabin or through the steering. Unlike some other cars the ride quality has not been acheived at the expense of good "feel" through the steering.
Culmhead
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Your Jazz must be unique then, because no other jazz is anything like this.
you sure its Jazz?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You've bought 5 cars in a row which you don't like the driving feel of? Do you take them for a test drive before you buy them?
Everyone wants their car to have sporty pretensions nowadays (or so the marketing people tell the manufacturers) and mostly the manufacturers seem to interpret this as a firmer ride.
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I think alot of our motoring journalists are to blame.
They slate a car if it does not handle in a sporty fashion (HJ excluded from that).
Clarkson is probably the worst IMO.
So we end up with cars that ride alot firmer than they used to all in the pursuit of making sure the car gets a good review in the trashy magazines that are about now.
Coupled with the fact that we pay more than ever for roads that are in very poor condition and it makes for a very unsatisfactory condition.
No wonder SUV's are so popular.
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Have you considered that you are ten years older?
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I agree with you completely pendlebury. Cars that can't go round a circuit like a Mclaren are slated. That's probably why modern cars are great on country roads but incompetent everywhere else (in my experience)
Just to answer the question about buying 5 cars and test driving them; most were bought at auctions except the Mondeo which felt nice on the test drive but over a few days after buying it I realised it wasn't happy with bumpy roads. So I won't be taking any test drives on smooth roads any more. I must say I like buying cars from auctions though and in any case it usually takes a few days to get a true feel for a car.
I would appreciate any input on how the following cars feel: Seat Leon, Golf, Audi A3, Renault Megane new shape (in case I really MUST buy French).
Thanks for everyones advice so far
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I would appreciate any input on how the following cars feel: Seat Leon Golf Audi A3 Renault Megane new shape (in case I really MUST buy French).
The leon is hard riding, very hard riding. Its set up like a sports car.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Personally I think it could be down to the marketing people in the various car manufacturers who seem hell bent on all ensuring that their respective products appeal to 'a younger target audience' and therfore have have to be deemed to be 'sporty' or 'dynamic', meaning 'make the suspension much firmer'. To look at the way cars are advertised these days, you would think that as a nation we all spend our weekends attending trackdays in our vectra's etc. We all of course know that this is tosh. Your views?
I do think that some of the best cars for all round ride & handling compromise are the Pug 405/406 and pre run flat BMW's.
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I suppose there is also the fact that so many cars are all on the same platform as well - VAG with Skoda, Audi, SEAT, VW - Ford with Volvo, Mazda, Renault with Nissan, GM with Vauxhall & Saab.
The designers can tweak the settings but it should come as no suprise that if they are all effectively the same car underneath they will ride similarly.
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Agree with suggestion of French cars.
I understand why you don't fancy one, but the C5 rides like a magic carpet and the various Meganes and Scenics I've driven have been pretty good.
It's vital you test drive your next car with the exact suspension and tyre profile set up you'll be buying as it can make a huge difference. The motoring mags can't be relied on as they tend to test high spec / large wheel versions with crashy / "sporty" rides.
I do sometime despair about this. Most of my driving is 30 mph North London potholed urban or motorway. Hence on-the-limit cornering is useless to me (and most other drivers). What I love about my car (Lexus IS250 - base model) is that it's very quiet and very relaxing to pootle along in but this isn't something the magazines think is important. I can once remember a mag slagging off the Mk1 Avensis because it "drives like a big luxobarge" - as if that were a bad thing!
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i think the wheels and tyres have a lot to do with the ride.... mate had a Mini Cooper with great big wheels........it looked lovely....but the ride was absolutely dreadful
wife's X Type estate has big wheels....again looks nice.......but the ride is considerably more firm than mine (S Type) and we've both got the SE model.......next time i'll make sure we sacrifice looks for ride comfort
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My sympathies jevizon - I've had a similar experience, and like you have so far steered(!) clear of French cars, though that's probably an irrational response, since I still have a lingering hankering (not sure if one can have a lingereing hankering, but anyway..) for the perceived
build quality of German cars - probably more just perceived now, than ever.
Having said that, my 2nd most comfy car ever was a Merc w124 coupe - nice bump absorptive suspension, but not wallowy & able to negotiate bumpy corners far faster than it ought. Alas, W124's are all getting on a bit now, and becoming more 'project' than everyday car. If you can take the running costs, older XJ6's still now how to cosset, my favourite car of all time was a Series 111 XJ6 - fabulous sense of ocassion & comfort, every drive. I'm still tempted by one, despite their age, as there's a specialist Jag garage near me - hmmm..
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(typos!)
My sympathies jevizon - I've had a similar experience, and like you have so far steered(!) clear of French cars, though that's probably an irrational response, since I still have a lingering hankering (not sure if one can have a lingereing hankering, but anyway..) for the perceived
build quality of German cars - probably more just perceived now, than ever.
Having said that, my 2nd most comfy car ever was a Merc w124 coupe - nice bump absorptive suspension, but not wallowy & able to negotiate bumpy corners far faster than it ought. Alas, W124's are all getting on a bit now, and becoming more 'project' than everyday car. If you can take the running costs, older XJ6's still know how to cosset, my favourite car of all time was a Series 111 XJ6 - fabulous sense of ocassion & comfort, every drive. I'm still tempted by one, despite their age, as there's a specialist Jag garage near me - hmmm..
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How about one of these from E-Bay ?
330095437564
All for the price of a euro-clone tin box.
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Best riding non-French car I have driven recently has been a Mk 1 Subaru Forester. It had balloon tyres (well at least 65 section) and a moderately higher ride height and just smothered most bumps with nary a lift of the bonnet. Wonderful. Very very relaxing on the motorway, despite its lack of creature comforts and low gearing. Excellent over speed bumps.
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You need an XM on Michelins. Magic carpet. Nothing gets close for comfort on French autoroutes, the windscreen becomes a video display after a few miles, a constant 100mph+ is effortless (and still the 205s/306s etc sweep past). The trade-off has always has been good handling or comfort. Think go-kart vs Royce.
Low profiles on lardmobiles are for drug dealers and those who wish to impersonate drug dealers.
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Id second the XM - its a true limo and has adjustable suspension for when you want it firmed up.
My dads 2 litre petrol turbo auto was a fantastic car and as it was the estate, vast inside, both passenger space and luggage space. We used to drive from Gatwick starting at 2am to Calias, catch the ferry, then head all the way to Cannes in one day in total air conditioned comfort.
My dad had them for 5 years and never had a single problem with either of the two he had.
Problem is, OP wants a medium sized car that doesnt really exist - large cars have better ride generally and having a class leading ride isnt family hatch priority these days.
Maybe he should try a 2-CV - its small and has the good ride :-)
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Yes. The XM is now long in the tooth, but it's the engineered solution to 600 miles per day without undue stress.
Until it breaks down.
Medium sized car? The Mundano is regarded as a medium sized car, and it's bigger than the Mk3 Granada.
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Buy a bottle of 'Chardonnay', 'Cabernet' or 'Merlot' and you're likely to get generic wine that has a generic middle of the road (but non-offensive) character . Likewise order a 'pint of lager' and you'll get something cold and wet that is vaguely alcoholic but tastes of nothing.
In my opinion it pays to be an epicure in most areas of life- cars being merely one component that an informed choice will help pay dividends..............
Decent and distinctive cars are out there, you just need to move away from the ubiquitous bottle of new world plonk.....................
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So, Oldhand, do you drive a Morgan?
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So Oldhand do you drive a Morgan?
A car doesn't have to be an anachronism to be distinctive. Some of the most distinctive cars 'these days' still have some of the most innovative design and as a result a highly individual drive.
Cars like the Lotus Elise with it's bonded chassis, the BMW M5 (where else this side of a supercar do you get a screaming and characterful V10?), the V8 Audis with their 'Nascar' burble. These cars and many others do a great job of offering an individual driving experience, miles away from the 'cars as white goods' that seem to be the everyday grind we are all supposed to conform to.
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Recently I hired a Mercedes C Class C 200 CDI. Over the 12 days of my usual driving ( my normal car was in a garage laid up). Lots of roadworks and quantities of potholes around Dublin. Also horrible rough bumps where they are altering the M50 near Dublin. Also four long distance daily return drives up in to and around Northern Ireland. A lovely smooth cruising motorway from Dublin up to Dundalk ( undisturbed 120 kph plus about 74+ mph). My wife and I absolutely adored this car. Incredible smooth and quiet fast cruising and amazingly absorbent on the bumpy roads. We also didn't feel tired after 230 miles, as the seats had so much back support.
Another very comfortable vehicle is both the Renault Scenic and Grand Scenic. I have hired them many times overseas and loved them when having to transport plenty of people.
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>>Incredible smooth and quiet fast cruising and amazingly absorbent on the bumpy road
It just goes to show - one man's meat etc... I own one of these & think the ride is an unsophisticated
compromise of wallowy pseudo-luxury & incomplete impersonation of BMW 3-series, in other words, neither beast nor fowl.
The C200 cdi & C180K are marginal improvements over my usual c270, doubtless due to the much lighter lump providing the motive force, but even in the aforementioned, the ride would only impress a tractor driver, all imho of course.
Now, where's that C6 with (proper, though non-standard) 60 section tyres.
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I think the new shape C Class when it arrives will be a lot more comfy because of the sophisticated suspension ( If you go for Elegance or Classic, not Avantgarde). I accept what you said about your own experience. The one I had was a 2007 model which had been improved quite a bit.They all say the new shape one is very comfortable though.
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TVM
I take your point that most people do not rate the Jazz [it is by the way - I looked] as a car with a good ride. Perhaps the factory remembered to fit the dampers on mine.
culmhead
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I see that Volvo have been persuaded to have a unique suspension set-up for our market for future models. Presumably this will mean a harsh, crashy ride with better on the limit handling. This will doubtless go down a treat with magazine road tests but is not what 90% of the market actually wants, as has been outlined above.
Cars seem to have an inferior ride these days mainly because of our ever worsening roads, coupled with the fashipon for big alloys, ow profile tyres and 'sports' suspension.
French cars still generally offer the best ride. Paradoxically, as their roads improve the need for soft suspension is declining, and so their suspension rates are hardening. Cobbled roads are a rarity in France these days and their motorways are mostly superb.
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>They slate a car if it does not handle in a sporty fashion (HJ excluded from that). Clarkson is probably the worst IMO.
Really? I don't read all his output by any means but I've see quite a few where he's dismissed something (usually an Audi) out of hand because its ride was too hard.
Has anyone mentioned the Xantia? Most of the qualities of an XM in a medium-sized package. Still looks fresh too, to my eyes anyway.
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Later Jazz's had improved suspension.
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I actually did around 1,000 miles in that hired C 200 CDI Mercedes, so I got to know it rather well.I really enjoyed driving it in all conditions. I am actually interested in buying the new shape one when it appears.
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