[ edit - I don't think you really want the world to know your address. I can see from lower down the thread that HJ has a copy should there be any comeback. - PG ]
25th May 2007
Dear Sir/Madam
It is rare that I ever feel the need to register displeasure but in this instance I feel I have no choice. After no fewer than 8 Nissan cars since 1988, following my recent experience I can categorically state you have lost my custom for good.
In buying Nissan I came to expect a level of mechanical integrity, build quality, reliability and in turn a dealer network capable of fixing faults when they do occur quickly efficiently and painlessly. Cars are complex things after all, and it?s not unreasonable to expect things to go wrong ? it?s how these wrongs are rectified that makes the difference.
I was until recently the owner of a 2004 Primera 2.2 dCi ? a car I admired for its design, and specification. However its build quality was garbage (to give an example the doors shut with that reassuring clang that even Perodua would be ashamed of) and its reliability worse (to summarise ? two turbos, two recalls, one injector rail, suspension maladies, and one blown engine in 40000 miles). These woes were compounded by a dealer network whose workmanship is slipshod, who are unable to properly diagnose faults and who view customers as nothing more than a cash cow waiting to be milked. You used to have two excellent dealers in the {location deleted - DD} area in both {2 garage names deleted - no naming & shaming please- DD} yet you saw fit to defranchise them in favour of the rubbish we have had to since tolerate (I MUST emphasise ? this is not a criticism of an individual branch. Other branches/franchises from the same group are equally inept in our and others experience.) I do not have enough paper to recount the various tales of woe I have to tell, so if details are required I will gladly oblige ? dating back many years.
I cannot help but think that since the tie up with Renault component quality has gone down, as has quality control. The drive to reduce costs has impacted terribly on your product ? a short term view in my opinion as happy customers are likely to return and keep returning. As I was until now. Your recent terrible placings in various customer satisfaction and reliability surveys speaks volumes.
I don?t expect anything by way of this letter, but my disgust is such I could not just let it pass. From a now ex-customer I wish you all the best.
Yours sincerely
Steven Scott
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That would/will be a complete waste of time. If you want to make a complaint you need to stick strictly to specific things that you currently want rectifying.
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L\'escargot.
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Agree. If it helps you feel better having vented your spleen, then it might be worth it.
I bet a bag of pork scratchings that the office monkey will file it in the bin when he/she opens the post on Tuesday.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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I don't understand why ANYBODY in their right mind would buy a Primera in the first place. Awful car.
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The earlier Primeras were anything but "awful".
The P11 was one of the best handling repmobiles of its era. Light years ahead of the staid old Vectra that's for certain.
But it would seem that the P12, with its overcomplex electronics, largely sourced from that French lot, and the dCi diesel engine that is terminally unreliable, is a bit of a dog. A great shame given the car's underrated past.
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I think you would have a better chance of a result if you done some research to find out the full name of the appropriate person to whom to address your concerns. A "Dear Sir/Madam" letter is going to get a standard reply, cobbled together by a computer with phrases like "We will address your concerns" - "Our dealer network is a source of pride and confidence" - "Measures are in place to update and improve our procedures" ie the usual PR piffle to try and shut you up!
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You may or may not be interested to know that in the ADAC Pannenstatistik 2005 (the most recent year for which the Nissan Primera featured), among new cars purchased in 2004, the Nissan Primera had the 2nd highest number of breakdowns of any car featured. A total of 74 different models sold enough vehicles to be included, so the Primera came a lowly 73rd out of 74 for reliability
Who came 74th? Nissan Almera/Almera Tino.
It must be said that the Pannenstatistik 2006 show that if one looks at 2005 cars, Nissan have improved significantly - and the manufacturer that does particularly badly is Ford.
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That letter will achieve nothing at Nissan UK. It needs to be addressed to a named person, and to detail specific failures on the part of Nissan themselves, and it must request a remedy from them.
Moaning about a dealer will simply prompt them to point out that the dealer is independent of Nissan UK.
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I recently had to complain to 02 regarding my mobile telephone. Customer complaints wouldn't do anything. I e-mailed the CEO (after a bit of googling) and got a reply from his PA within two hours. She became my personal contact throughout (poor thing)
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To everyone saying that you need to send it to someone specific and address individual concerns, I think you're missing the point of an open letter. Think of it as more of an editorial than a letter. And yes, its chief purpose is to air views, not to get a specific response.
V
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Hang on. This is an'open letter'. The point is that it is not solely aimed at Nissan (if it were, then it would be addressed to an individual and delivered e or by snail) but at anyone who cares to read it - and who will make their own judgments about Nissan products as a result; their future buying decisions may be thus influenced. If anyone at Nissan with some clout happens to read it, that is a bonus.
OP aims to feel better having written it and posted here - which I can understand. But isn't this 'naming and shaming', and can we expect to see the thread removed soon?
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It's amazing how Renault have managed to take one of the most reliable, solid, mechanically sound cars (the pre-2002 Primera models were all spot-on), and turn it into nothing more than an unreliable, French-engineered moneypit as most of their own cars already are. Having owned only Nissans since passing my test at 17, and never having a single reliability issue, I won't be buying another. My W-reg N15 model Almera was one of the last "proper" Nissans - it may be "boring" and "dull" but at least it won't give me the excitement of being stranded and requiring a huge repair bill to fix. It's frighteningly simple to DIY-service, and only visits the garage once a year for an MOT (the only failure I've had to date was a split CV boot costing me £40!).
The likes of Hyundai and Kia are now far better cars than Nissan, both in terms of mechanical reliability and material quality (comparing the interior plastics of a Kia Rio and a Renault Clio really shows how much Renault's quality has slipped). My next car will be Korean, because it's these brands who now offer what Nissan once did so well: no-nonsense, solid, well-engineered, reliable cars that don't cost the earth to buy or keep.
The only way Nissan/Renault will listen is when their sales start to plummet - their traditional target market will either migrate to other Japanese brands, or be attracted to the only car in this country with a 7-year warranty. And who can blame them?
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"interior plastics of a Kia Rio and a Renault Clio really shows how much Renault's quality has slipped)."
you obviously havent seen the inside of a new clio. I have never read such bare faced misinformation.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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you obviously havent seen the inside of a new clio. I have never read such bare faced misinformation.
Point taken, but having owned the previous model Clio I'm put off Renaults for life; the plastics were terrible quality (easily scratched and brittle), and didn't even meet in some places. And don't even get me started on the DCi engine with its appetite for EGR valves!
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The likes of Hyundai and Kia are now far better cars than Nissan both in terms of mechanical reliability and material quality (...). My next car will be Korean
Not so fast! The 2006 ADAC statistics indicate that the Kia Picanto (the only Kia that features) rates pretty poorly - in the bottom 10 for both 2005 cars and 2006 cars.
www.adac.de/images/Pannenstatistik2006_tcm8-179730...f
Could be a statistical blip of course, with a perfectly valid explanation, but . . .
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Not so fast! The 2006 ADAC statistics indicate that the Kia Picanto (the only Kia that features) rates pretty poorly - in the bottom 10 for both 2005 cars and 2006 cars. www.adac.de/images/Pannenstatistik2006_tcm8-179730...f Could be a statistical blip of course with a perfectly valid explanation but . .
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics! Looking at those statistics in a wider context I'm not sure I'd take them with anything other than a large pinch of salt. I daresay if the same statistics were gathered in the UK, German cars wouldn't be quite so highly placed! ;-)
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There's lies damn lies and statistics! Looking at those statistics in a wider context I'm not sure I'd take them with anything other than a large pinch of salt.
Well, perhaps, but again, I'd say "Not so fast" . . .
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=43...9
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Dear Sir
Thank you for your recent letter. It?s always good to here from customers. If I may can I refer to one part of your letter, quote 2004 Primera 2.2 dCi a car I admired for its design.
The latest Primera has been universally recognised as a design abomination and an affront to the human eye by any sane and sensible person. Clearly this makes the rest of your letter nothing more than the ramblings of a lunatic.
Accordingly, an appointment has been made for you at the local psychiatric unit.
Your Sincerely
Nissan Company Doctor
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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How much renault input went into the primera? Based on car timescales I suspect very little or none as it woul dhave been gestated before the renaul/nissan tie up.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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This letter sounds like it is written by an angry complaining type of individual - such phrases as 'it build quality was garbage', 'cash cow waiting to be milked', 'rubbish we have to tolerate', without any specifics. I would certainly rephrase these parts with something more intelligent.
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Some of the most pronounced quality gaps in Nissan range occurred not just with P12 but at the beginning of century somewhere between Primera P11/Almera N15 combo and Primera P11-144/Almera N16. It's not only when designs changed from dull and anonymous to ugly and just plain repulsive but something went wrong with manufacturing quality and quality if parts used in assembly process. My current P11-144 and it's interior, although it's just a facelift of that from P11 is full of badly designed, slightly loose trim, sub par plastic mouldings and panels with tolerances at least 4mm too big to fit properly together. It's something you will not see in P11. And I drove from Kent to Coventry to pick up my car, because all the examples I saw in local dealerships were actually much worse!
Then you have notorious headlamps of three of my previous N16 Almeras that were literally melting out of shape because of injection mouldings left after production heating up inside and bending projectors out of shape. Floor plans without any insulation working like huge resonator boxes and amplifying every aspect of road noise inside. Rusting tray mounting points under engine of 2 year old car. Rattling doors. Something went wrong somewhere, they are just not the same cars...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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>>The P11 was one of the best handling repmobiles of its era. Light years ahead of the staid old Vectra that's for certain.>>
The original Mondeo's suspension was largely evolved after study of the Primera.
I went round the then new Sunderland plant when it first began building the Primera in 1989 - it was a model of professionalism, high quality workmanship and a palnt which turned out reliable, well built cars.
However, the Primera sadly never caught the imagination of the majority of reps nor the general public, ironically one of the reasons it became such a great secondhand buy.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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What is it with the turbo/intercooler of Nissans, especially X Trail?
Having approached them and got no where on this matter they are loath to say there is problem.
From the heard of incidents it cannot all be down to bad drivers and lack of oil changes can it?
dvd
PS. What are the signs and symptoms before all goes bang or is there no warning?
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Afternoon all,
Whilst i can feel the "frustration" the OP must feel regarding his N***** product, i think that his "open letter" should be slightly "altered" to apply to ALL MANUFACTURERS & ALL MODELS.
Everybody, has "something" about thier car that they would change, whether its something as major as an engine fault, or as minor as the position of a cup holder. I realise that you can't suit everybody 100% of the time, but heck it wouldn't do any harm to keep manufacturers "on thier toes" and actually TRYING to make sure that thier products are Perfection. Only when everyhing is perfect will customers stop complaining.
They have a long way to go to achieve it!
Billy
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Positive Number x Negative number = Negative number
Good x Bad = Bad
Nissan x Renault = Renault
Joking aprt, I agree with others that you'll receive a stereotype reply. I once wrote a similar letter to Hyundai complaining about a dealer's inefficiency. But got a reply that their dealers operate independently and Hyundai had no control over them.
By the way, Primera wasn't a bad car. I friend had owned one for 3 years (1997 model) and only one let down was a clutch failure at 70k miles.
Last week someone said his 2004 Nissan Navara engine blown up.
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I have had a significant number of corrossion issues with my 54 plate Navara and it has been back many times to the dealer to have issues repaired. When there is a problem with the vehicle, I take it to the dealer, who examines it, takes photos and sends it to Nissan UK. Nissan UK have to sign off on any repair work. I have found the dealer far more helpful than Nissan UK. However they do not always sing from the same hymm sheet. When the dealer's paint specialist identified paint osmosis on the bonnet, Nissan UK disagreed with it and said it was an external source but could not specify what the external source was. They then repaired it as a "goodwill gesture". When I discussed it with them in email correspondence, they repeatedly referred to my opinion that it was paint osmosis despite the fact that it was the dealers most experienced paint specialist who diagnosed it. A tad irritating.
Nissan UK had a three point approach to my initial queries with them
1 They ignored the query
2 They replied to the emails without answering the questions
3 They invented a reason for not answering the question. In my case they quoted the Data Protection Act.
I only got anywhere when I sent a copy of the correspondence special delivery marked "Strictly Private and Confidential" to a senior person stating that I was not being treated fairly. The original person I had been dealing issues was said to have had "training issues".
The Navara is the first vehicle by a Japanese producer that I have had. Having heard extensively about the quality of Japanese vehicles, I have been hugely disappointed by it. I agree with others in this thread that the likes of Hyundai and Kia are really raising the bar in terms of quality and price
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One interesting thing I have noticed about Nissan owners is that when their cars do go wrong, they explode in a fit of rage. Far more so than Renault owners.
Given that almost every reliability survey in the book is still saying that Nissan make more reliable cars than Nissan, this seems to demonstrate the power of owner perceptions.
When someone buys a Nissan, 4 times out of 5 they've done so because Nissans have traditionally been very solid cars. When they develop problems, people get very angry very quickly, because it isn't what they are used to.
It brings home just how good the like of Honda and Skoda really are. If a marque that is now average (Nissan) get such a lambasting, for the crime of being average, these other companies would be similarly kicked from here to Christmas if their quality slipped.
I am one of many now who would never buy a newer Nissan, and will continue to think that way until Ghosn gets his finger out. The current Renault-Nissan cars are still unacceptably poor for my requirements.
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Nissan make more reliable cars than Nissan
Nissan > Renault, that should be... sorry
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Any letter of complaint ought to be from someone who appears (even if the writer knows this not to be the case) to be someone who can be turned around i.e. someone who Nissan in this case thinks might well buy another Nissan product....otherwise what's the point in bothering with him
..... he's already a 'lost cause' isn't he.
Furthermore, try to be as 'reasonable' as possible, so that the reader of the letter can relate it to themselves...... if you are rude (even if you think you have a right to be) the recipient often will 'switch off' which again defeats the object of sending a letter. If you can get them on your side and feeling sorry for you, you're halfway there. Humour can help.
You'll need to highlight the difficulties, specifically.......but.......don't include every single little thing. Many people think that by putting as much as possible into the letter, they're doing their cause some good.......but in reality a minor thing can take away the seriousness of a major point as it makes you look petty in some respects...and.......it gives the company the opportunity to answer your letter partially i.e. only answer the minor point and ignore the main one.
Try to get the letter to someone senior......at least in a management position and this can usually be achieved by a pleasant phone call to a receptionist or similar (if you can get through the infernal 'Press 1' for this etc)...as they'll often be secretly be quite glad to stitch the boss up, without taking flack themselves.
Make sure the matter is dealt with via their Formal Complaints Procedures....not just a quick phone call to you to shut you up.......i.e. you think a complaint is 'in the system' whereas when they rang you that was the end of it.
Now that i've given away all my 'Complaints Handling ' secrets, i'll probably be found out myself now....0-(
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One interesting thing I have noticed about Nissan owners is that when their cars do go wrong they explode in a fit of rage. Far more so than Renault owners.
Perhaps because Renault owners have lower expectations of their cars (and rightly so in many instances). Nissan owners who could once expect 10 years of good service out of a car are now being left unpleasantly surprised.
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After no fewer than 8 Nissan cars since 1988 following my recent experience I can categorically state you have lost my custom for good.
Lettter goes straight into bin.
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The idea of an open letter in this instance was to generate exactly what has happened - debate. Hopefully someone somewhere is reading enough to note that something is not going well. We can but hope . .
To answer one or two points - I did not want to write a long winded spiel detailing every incident and malady. BORING. However I use the words garbage and slipshod in a heartfelt manner. Would you accept 8 return visits for rectification work after picking a car up from a franchised dealer - faults include split pins, bolts and brackets missing, and fuel injectors spraying fuel around the engine bay . . . . .. Would you be pleased that the car was returned to you with the air conditioning deprived of refrigerant. I'm sure you wouldn't.
However I feel better for venting my spleen for sure, and glad to see some sort of debate has been generated. Hopefullly any others will also join in rather than sit back in silence
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I am one of many now who would never buy a newer Nissan, and will continue to think that way until Ghosn gets his finger out. The current Renault-Nissan cars are still unacceptably poor for my requirements. ...............
I think you've hit the nail there Jase 1. Ghosn has had to turn the company round from the brink of financial disaster in the late 90s - -making highly decent cars but no money! Taking cost out of the business has possibly resulted in a lower build quality, cheaper components etc etc. The downturn in JD Power surveys and the like in the last few years may reflect that.
Baz
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Please could scott1s give his full name and address otherwise what he has written my be consrued as an anonymous libel rather than an open letter. Better to e-mail it to me at letters@honestjohn.co.uk and I'll edit it in to the open letter. HJ
Done.
To all my critics in this one - as I said I am venting my spleen and don't feel the need to delve too far into detail as the history will be on Nissans systems, however trawling various motor forums would tend to indicate that I was not the only one to have these hassles. If enough people power can be generated then who knows what can be achieved - even if it is a VERY tall order.
Also, despite the opening 3 lines, my own customer service training and experience to date conditions me to the belief that if someone feels strongly enough to write then they are mightily pink fluffy diced {edit by DD - next time I will delete the whole post} off. I would class myself as a very loyal customer down the years and to make me say no more is some achievement believe me.
Anyway - carry on flaming folks . . . . . ;-)
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Good for you scott1s. whilst not having written a letter, I completely agree with you that Nissans' products are now cheaply made and unreliable compared to their past offerings. The 2.2Dci engine in particular seems a dog and I would never have bought a Primera Dci (thankfully now gone) had I read more stuff online.
My Dad had an '81 W Bluebird estate 1.8 , '84 B Bluebird estate 2.0, '88 F Bluebird hatch 1.8(first of the Sunderland ones I believe), 90 H Primera 2.0 (Best of the lot by miles) and finally a 100NX! None of them ever went wrong, aside one clutch, and all were properly made. The Primera 2.0GS was fantastic.
Conversely, my Primera Dci was tinny as hell, rough engine and the failed Dci turbo cost me a fortune.
What a shame.
Nissan - sort it out!
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Write (by recorded delivery) to the CEO/MD of the organisation to whom you paid your money to, cc to the CEO/MD of Nissan-in-the-UK, use bullet points (their attention span is short), request a meaningful reply within seven days. Back up by fax.
I have minimal experience of Nissans, the Almera I bought for a close relative does what it's supposed to do, although the phrase "It's not as nice as that Mondeo I had." is frequently heard.
My son tells me that I should buy him a Skyline. Although I prefer the concept of a Micra with Pulsar power and drive train. For me, not him.
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Dear Mrs/Mr Nissan
I am writing to complain in the strongest possible terms about my Nissan Almera 1.8SE automatic, and the service offered by your dealers.
I bought this vehicle in February last year, from one of your franchised dealers. At only 16 months old and 14,000 miles, it was priced at less than half the cost of a new vehicle. I purchased it as the cheapest vehicle I could find of that type (mid-sized automatic hatchback) at that age. The dealer offered a 10-year guarantee so long as the car was serviced on schedule at one of their branches.
Over the last 15 months, this car has been one long and bitter disappointment:- The sales people from whom I purchased the car tried no high pressure techniques, and offered every possible assistance without being intrusive. It it really too much to expect that your dealers should have proper salespeople, who are patronising, rude, uninformative and sexist?
- it has never broken down, and no bits have fallen off it, and it has never failed to start first time. The 10-year guarantee has therefore been a completely useless bit of sales flannel
- Despite the cat that I bought the car as a cheapie, my friends and family repeatedly admire it as elegant, with the result that in some quarters I am seen as a fashion victim. My relationship with one good friend has been badly damaged because her 8-year-old son complains that her car is not as "cool" as mine, even though I specifically set out to buy an "uncool" car.
- Older passengers marvel at the extensive equipment, which includes climate control air conditioning, all-round electric windows, and parking sensors. They assume that it must have been very expensive, and that I must therefore be a lot more financially secure than is actually the case.
- Cheap cars are supposed to be uncomfortable, but everyone who drives this car praises it as very comfortable and easy to drive, and I can find no arguments to counter these observations. This means that I get endlessly pestered to drive my car (in preference to anyone else's) when we have to go anywhere, and I get no sympathy when I have to drive long distances.
- The dealer with whom I have the car serviced (another branch of the a chain from whom I purchased it) is always fair in its pricing, quick to notify me as soon as my car is ready, and in general a model of customer service. This sort of customer care undermines fair competition in the motor trade, by depriving other dealers of all their excuses for shoddy service.
In short, this car has failed to live up to any of the expectations I had when I purchased it. No consumer product has let me down so badly, and I must therefore insist that you immediately refund the purchase price so that I can buy another vehicle which allows me to moan endlessly like the dissatisfied consumer I aspired to be. Otherwise I will tell everyone I meet all these shameful details of my shocking experience of your company's products and customer service.
Your sincerely with love peace and sunshine
NowWheels
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8< SNIP! {Either quote a small part of the text of the person you're replying to , or use "in reply to xxxx" - DD}
Your sincerely with love peace and sunshine NowWheels
PMSL!!!! Cracking reposte. Love it.
I too really liked my 1.8 Almera (brother now has it, 75000 miles and never missed a beat bar a couple of niggles). Runs sweet as a nut, and still looks good despite being 7 years old and not that well looked after these days. How I wish I'd never sold that car now . . . . . .
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Is it over a year since NW was NoWheels? I'm glad the Almera has been a success - one of many tales of reliability from pre-Renault Nissans.
I had 600,000+ trouble-free miles in total out of seven pre-Nissan Renaults between 1980 and 2001. The combination of Nissan and Renault should be unbeatable - but sadly, judging fron others' experiences, thst isn't the case.
I wonder why.
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They took Nissan style and Renault reliability. Whereas..................
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I have put this link up here before but just incase you didn't get it >
www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp
it shows all makes of vehicles recalls, very handy to have as i found out with my old C-max
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PMSL? Wossat? Pre-menstrual syndrome, love?
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PMSL? Wossat?
Urinated myself laughing.........(had to look it up though)
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They took Nissan style and Renault reliability. Whereas..................
That pretty much sums it up. Renaults have always had a bit of style to them, but not a great deal of substance and Nissan vice versa. If Renault had designed a family car with the chic French-ness of the Renault Megane (but maybe a less square backside), and let Nissan take care of the greasy bits and the build quality, they'd be onto a winner!
Nissan's petrol engines are rock-solid (unlike the Clio's 1.2 litre unit that throws off cambelts before 40k!). I'm sure they could also get a few Nissan engineers to design a decent chain-cam common-rail diesel engine that'd beat hell out of the Renault DCi as well (let's face it, Hyundai/Kia's 1.5 litre CRDi unit is a cracker and if they can do it...). There's no reason why Nissan/Renault couldn't build class-leading cars if they recognised each others' strong points and played to them.
Come on Nissan/Renault. I dare you to build a car that even the fussiest motorist would be happy to buy!
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GregSwain,
are you me?
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GregSwain are you me?
Looking at a few previous posts I'm beginning to wonder that myself!
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I hope not, one of you is bad enough.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Oh come on - how many clio 1.2 cam belts get thrown off before 40k? If you treat a cambelt/water pump as a consumeable AT 40k, the clio 1.2 lump is solid and reliable..
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Oh come on - how many clio 1.2 cam belts get thrown off before 40k? If you treat a cambelt/water pump as a consumeable AT 40k the clio 1.2 lump is solid and reliable..
And if you treat an entire engine as a consumable, just about every car is! Water pumps shouldn't need to be changed every 4 years to stop an engine from eating itself. Items of shoddy design like that could easily be resolved if they weren't so readily accepted by those easily parted from their cash!
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