My stepbrother has recently returned to the UK to visit family after working in Holland. According to him, many cars out there are LPG converted but those with older cars are not using the LPG tanks but putting "Calor" gas cylinders in the boot and running from those instead as it is cheaper.
Now obviously in the UK this would be very naughty as like red diesel there is no road fuel duty on gas cylinders but in theory how easy would it be to convert an LPG car to run from cylinders? I asked someone I know in the business and he said he'd never heard of it being done but you certainly get gas cylinder powered fork-lift trucks. Would be easy to get away with in theory surely? You could just remove the cylinder at MOT time and have the car MOT'd as just running from petrol. Would it be a case of simply remove the LPG tank and have a secure fitting for the cylinder plus a regulator connecting to the old LPG fuel pipe? At 10 odd quid a cylinder it has to be pretty tempting...
Dan
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I can see this coming up as an issue if electric cars take off.
Next year's thesis "Design a systen to tax electricity delivered to the home but used to recharge motive power batteries"
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One way that this could be done is by using a certain connecter type for recharging your electric car. This connector then would only fit a certain type of domestic/commercial supply connection which would integrate it's own metering system.
(does any of that make sense ??)
Chad.R
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Make them sealed, like electricity meters, for instance?
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Yes, it makes sense, but it would be ridiculously easy to swap the connectors to plug into a 13 amp socket.
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I must be thick, guys - I thought Dan started this thread to talk about using Calor gas for cars. No?
Perhaps it might be better to start a new thread for electric car related matters.
Ian
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Thank you Ian! :o) I guess it *is* Friday...
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Buy another one and snip off the plug, keeping the original for inspection. Can't be that difficult.
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I have heard, friend of a friend, that it can be even cheaper than using calor gas cylinders. It is possible to refill the proper LPG tank in a converted car with bulk-delivered domestic heating gas. That would be impossible to detect, unless gas can have a 'dye'.
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Cliff
Easy - some sort of chemical signature. It is possible that the odorant used in natural gas would be enough.
regards
john
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Cliff Pope wrote:
>
> I have heard, friend of a friend, that it can be even cheaper
> than using calor gas cylinders. It is possible to refill the
> proper LPG tank in a converted car with bulk-delivered
> domestic heating gas. That would be impossible to detect,
> unless gas can have a 'dye'.
You need to modify the bulk tank methinks, as the domestic off take will be in the gas fraction, whereas you need a dip tube into the liquid so as to fill up the vehicle, ........... errmm allegedly.
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Certainly it would seem to be more convenient in many ways to pull into a service station and simply swap an empty cylinder for a full one. Maybe one would require a second small tank as a reserve so the main cylinder could be run "dry", otherwise you would not get full value from a cylinder. The alternative is a nationwide duplication of the petrol distribution system and I can't see that being cost-effective unless there is a mass transfer to gas.
I see little advantage in "dual fuel" systems, to my mind it should be one or the other.
Taxing one batch of identical cylinders for camping/industrial use and another for road use would seem to present logistical problems for Gordon.
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Politics aside, can what Dan J initially suggested be done? It seems it can and it is in Holland. In S.France i have friends who frequently use Red Agricultural Diesel in their cars as they have pumps full of the stuff for their tractors and combines. The police have only every prosecuted one person in the past 10yrs in asaid friends region - you can tell by the smell of the diesel its apparnt legality or not. So it's 28p a litre if you're farming in France!!! Lucky B*****s
Anyway, it seems so unlikely that a copper is going to check what fuel system your car uses that you could simply run on Calor Gaz without any problems. I suppose you would have to modify you fuel intrake system for the MOT, but that could be overcome with the right kind of design...
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Cliff is right. A friend of mine does this, ie buy the gas bulk delivered. However he choses to pay the tax which means 30p per litre. If you do it with central heating gas it's 18 p per litre. I believe it's the same stuff exactly. He just declares it.
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The problem with gas cylinders is surely the cost. I pay about £12 for a 7kg refill. This works out at about £1.70 per litre. Now larger cylinders would work out a bit cheaper but this would still be way over the price of overtaxed petrol.
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IIRC correctly you do not have to dip the take-off into the liquid, but merely to take the feed off before the pressure regulator.
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Does that not take longer to fill the vehicle tank??
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What a fantastic idea. So ... to summarise, LPG is great for running your car on, you get very similar performance to petrol, and the government doesn't tax it much, so it costs little. This LPG stuff looks like the same 'calor' gas that can be used for heating your home. If the home heating stuff could be used in your car, in theory, you don't need to pay any tax at all.
Firstly might I suggest that it isn't safe to drive around with a blue calor gas bottle in your boot. Aautomotive tanks are designed to be impact resistant in a way that the general tanks are not. Sounds like the way to do it, is to buy fuel gas and top-up your car with it at home.
Questions :
1)Are the two fuels identical (LPG home, mototor LPG), I beleive that they are, does anybody know?
2) Can you get hold of, and setup, the hose and fueling nozzle that you'd need to transfer gas from your home supply to your car?
3) During fueling, would the gas pressure from the home supply be compatible with the fueling process?
4) Would you save enough money to justify breaking the law and messing about with combustable gases under pressure?
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There are only 2 commercially available types of LPG. Butane (what you think of as blue Calor cylinders) and Propane (what you think of as orange Calor cylinders)
All others (Flogas, Shell, Calor etc) are the same
Not wishing to deprive anyone of the chance of depriving Gordon, I would suggest that LPG conversion should only be done by competent people, cylinders must be secured, the conversion is quite complicated, and of course you would be without any form of insurance.
I am sure an auto LPG specialist will be along soon
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