<< From your description. it doesn't seem to matter how strong you are, since you step on the handle. >>

It does if you need to get the bolts off again ....

No it doesn't.

To get the bolts off, (assuming you were too heavy) it matters

(a) how unlubricated your threads are, which is likely to be VERY following standard advice, which I try not to do.

(b) how long a lever you have, and

(c) how strong your spanner is

Grease, polythene and scaffolding are your (well, my) friends.

Edited by edlithgow on 30/11/2019 at 01:55

I'll raise the vexed question of (NOT) lubricating the studs. Torque specs are usually for dry threads

afaia its always been that way and shouldn't be lubricated, it means the torque is higher than it should be,

I get around that difficulty quite simply, by not using a torque wrench.

My priorities are

(a) ensuring my wheels dont come off. They don't

(b) ensuring I can get my wheels off when I want to. I can if they are lubricated, i cant if they arent.

(c) Protecting the threads from wear and galling. I can if they are lubricated, i cant if they arent. I take my wheels off fairly often so this might be relevent.

(Z+1) Ensuring the torque specs are correct? Er, no.

Not interested.

It MIGHT be of interest for alloy wheels, dunno. I'm not interested in them either.

Edited by edlithgow on 30/11/2019 at 02:03

.... you never put grease on wheel threads because it altered the torque put on the threads

But that only matters if you are trying to tighten to a specified torque?

What matters to me is pretty much the same as matters to Ed.: (a) that the wheels stay on when driving, but (b) come off readily when required - especially in a roadside emergency. I don't much like the cheap devices that come with the car, they are usually clumsy and unable to cope with (b) above. Two good pulls with my standard socket wrench have always worked for me, with a small smear of coppaslip on the end of the threads.

Just now and then I have had to put a two-foot tommy-bar on the wrench to start some bolts tightened by others. Perhaps they thought they were tightening stretch bolts on a cylinder head ....

Broke my rule (well, habit) and put a torque wrench on my wheel nuts when I got my newly installed part-worn replacements home.

I needed to take them off anyway to check the date codes (inconveniently on the INSIDE) so I thought I'd check the "break out" torque (defined here by me as the highest reached while undoing, in ft-lbs. There'll have been some residual grease on the studs from when I last did it, but most of the polythene will have come off.

passenger side - drivers side

1 50 45

2 60 50

3 50 55

4 80 45

Not too extreme.

Re=greased and polythene-taped like I usually do "breakout torque"" was less than 10 ft-lbs, but tlhe wheels don't loosen. I think the polythene has a lockjing effect, nylock stylee

by not using a torque wrench

Never used one myself for wheel bolts/nuts, its just something you are shown in a garage and you learn how tight to do them up, depending on the bar used which is also a problem for some, its hardly rocket science -except those idiots that use a power gun get the torque wrong more often than not but never correct it

I was taught in college that unless it was stated in the workshop manual, not Haynes, you never put grease on wheel threads because it altered the torque put on the threads

I often see this being discussed and can be interesting to see what some have to say;)

Of course, strictly speaking (which is really the way one should speak about this kind of stuff) grease doesn't alter the torque put on the threads.

If you are using a torque wrench, the torque put on the threads (i.e. the torque applied to the nut) is whatever the torque wrench says it is.

What changes is the relationship between the torque put on the threads and the axial tension put on the bolt, so greased threads are under more tension for a given torque.

None of which matters if you don't use a torque wrench.

So I don't

Edited by edlithgow on 14/12/2019 at 01:40

by not using a torque wrench

Never used one myself for wheel bolts/nuts, its just something you are shown in a garage and you learn how tight to do them up, depending on the bar used which is also a problem for some, its hardly rocket science -except those idiots that use a power gun get the torque wrong more often than not but never correct it

I was taught in college that unless it was stated in the workshop manual, not Haynes, you never put grease on wheel threads because it altered the torque put on the threads

I often see this being discussed and can be interesting to see what some have to say;)

Of course, strictly speaking (which is really the way one should speak about this kind of stuff) grease doesn't alter the torque put on the threads.

If you are using a torque wrench, the torque put on the threads (i.e. the torque applied to the nut) is whatever the torque wrench says it is.

What changes is the relationship between the torque put on the threads and the axial tension put on the bolt, so greased threads are under more tension for a given torque.

None of which matters if you don't use a torque wrench.

So I don't

The point is the wheel studs or bolts are being used as sheer bolts, if, assuming as some do put grease between the wheel and the hub, the hub point is meant to be a friction coupling (had to look this up to confirm)

the idea is use the bolts or nut/stud to compress the wheel to the hub, so the whole lot takes the weight of the car, not just the nut/stud bolts so its not as simple as you think

this is why any type of grease on the hub or threads is not advised, as the grease can allow wheel sheer movement.

So if I understand you correctly, friction between the hub and wheel surface prevents excessive sheer loading of the studs, and a suitably high tension on the studs keeps that friction adequate.

And yet neither I nor you IIRC, use a torque wrench on wheel nuts, and we get away with it.

What chancers we are.

My studs are greased and taped, though, which will make my one-armed tension effectively higher.

OTOH, and to add a bit more complication, I occaisionlly treat the hubs with sunflower oil and aluminium, which will start out slippery but turns into a fairly strong glue. Perhaps I should sprinkle it with fine sand to micro-stake the surfaces together until the oil sets.

What I actually do is to put polythene sheet on it to stop the wheel and hub sticking together.. Probably not ideal as a friction coupling, polythene.

Just as well I couldn't afford a sheet of PTFE.

Perhaps I should use wetNdry.

Edited by edlithgow on 14/12/2019 at 12:29

I would have thought putting polythene between the wheel and hub is dangerous. I recall being told never to paint the back of a wheel where it meets the hub, as the paint can compress, effectively loosening the wheel nuts/bolts. Polythene would be even thicker than a coat of paint.