Inside lane at 50-60 for me. I once ignored the signs and carried on in ignorance. Junction 37 of the M1 southbound is at the top of a hill and just after it the motorway has a right turn and a long downhill section (IIRC the entry slip road is the longest of any motorway junction).
The stopped traffic was backed up to where you couldn't see it until you were half way round the bend as the road goes downhill - the Focus has decent brakes, but I was almost rear ended.
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Actually I DO have a problem with them "exercising their judgement "
The whole point of the system is that people who have a complete view of the system advise people who don't. Now if a driver decides to ignore that it implies he knows better-how? On this stretch there are quite a lot of rises and hollows so that relying on seeing the traffic bunch is not a great idea.
So these people risk my safety and that of the people ahead by "exercising their judgement" using less- than-complete information.
These people who carry on at 80 instead of say 50, over a stretch of say 3 miles , save a whole quarter of a minute on their journey.
Yes it's true that sometimes the signs are left on needlessly, but I'm not sure I would want to be responsible for a motorway pile-up so I could point to administrative inefficiency
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Every driver should excercise their judgement for every second of their journey - a driver should **always** be able to stop in the distance they can see to be safe.
These extra signs merely cloud the issue.
Number_Cruncher
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Greenhay you say
"Actually I DO have a problem with them "exercising their judgement ""
But what about you and your judgement?! You excercised your judgement and drove considerably above the limit, risking their (and your) safety. What makes you think that you are better than they are?
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pmh (was peter)
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The signs are advisory and as long as you make the correct judgment. The point is you did exercise a degree of care by slowing down which is good because as someone else mentioned you can potentially end up in a crash. I had a similar thing happen too. I went up and over a hill on a slight bend and had to slam the anchors on and also nearly got rear ended. Since then i took a lot more care and notice of advisory signs even if 9 out of 10 of them are for previous issues.
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I reduced speed, yes, not to the advised level but to about 25mph less than before. And if I had been involved in a crash that behaviour would have contributed.
But I DID modify my behaviour. Many made no change to their behaviour .
I am a frequent and interested driver but I have a big problem with this philosophy that we can leave people entirely to make their own judgements .if they drove in a vacuum, perhaps .But they don't -their choices affect me and others.
It's an argument often used re speed limits ... I am a good driver..I can decide what's safe in any circumstances ( even when I don't know what's around the bend/over the hill...)
Problems? well, apparently there aren't any BAD drivers around ; everyone thinks they are good.Everyone thinks they can defy the laws of physics and stop from 85mph in 50 meters...
While we are at it- I don't believe speed kills ( in fact I don't know anyone who seriously does)- however I do think excessive speed reduces reaction times, increases the impact my vehicle will have when it hits somebody/thing else , punishes me faster if I am negligent or incompetent in my driving
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>greenhey
Most motorcyclists I see KNOW they are immortall and act accordingly:-(
madf
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>people who carry on at 80 instead of say 50, over a stretch of say 3 miles , save a whole quarter of a minute
Check the arithmetic there, Greenhey. A mile at 80 mph takes 45 seconds; the same mile at 50, 72s, so that's 81s over three miles, not 15. Still not enough to fret over.
That doesn't mean I disagree with you; quite the contrary - a precautionary slow-down when you're not sure what's ahead will cost you very little in journey time and might just save your life. On the other hand, if all you can see ahead is three miles of clear road, then there's nothing to slow down for.
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I know what your saying about the philosophy of leaving others to make their own decisions. I know you strongly disagree and many probably do.
Problem is - you, nobody or nothing can change this, everyone else on the road will drive how they like. The only thing stopping them driving badly or dangerously are police cars and speed cameras. Problem is, if you've have ever been on an advanced driving course you will realise that speed is just 1 part of a big jigsaw on how to drive safely. My point here is, drive safely yourself, be aware of others, anticipate problems and other driver behavior, always look what is going on up ahead and use your peripheral vision for your surroundings and in this case you correctly anticipated a potential problem and slowed down increasing your chance of stopping in in worse case surviving. You can get angry at others who ignore the warnings but nothing can change that, you look after yourself and make the right and safe decisions.
This all probably sounds a but clinical but oh well :)
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briers, that is one of the best posts I've seen on this forum; wise words
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A friend of mine is quite close to the centre of the variable-message system (VMS), which controls the display of these warnings. He is under no illusion that it lacks credibility because of poor past practice and performance, but reckons that it is actually improving. It depends crucially on prompt reports from the police in control of the incident and prompt action at the control centre(s) in response to those reports. There are still too many lapses at both these points -- busy police forgetting to report in, and busy control staff not acting promptly enough. I am assured that the shortcomings are fully acknowledged and are being tackled. I do hope so.
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Ignoring motorway signs is common but I saw one driver get a very nasty shock on the M3, not long before the junction with the M27, late at night. Slow down signs displayed, 50 mph the 40 and one (out side lane) closed. Most people moved across. Big lorry with arrow pointing to the left sitting in the outside lane. Fast car comes up the outside lane, "undertakes" the the lorry and causing general red lights as everyone accommodates him. He then sped straight BACK into the outside lane where a group of workmen were repairing the crash barrier. Not quite sure how he avoided them and glad I had dropped right back to leave space in front of me - which he swerved into and back out into the outside lane again. I would not have the motorway maintenance job at any price.
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the problem with motorway warning signs is that they are set up on the presumption that the maximum speed is 70mph.........but of course many many drivers exceed that
so when the sign says 50mph as an advisory..........does that mean....Caution Ahead, slow down a little, be prepared for an incident...or...literally, 50mph is the max speed to be safely driving at
the person doing 90mph might slow down to 70mph if they are prudent........but this might still be 20mph too fast for something and they won't know
we'd be better off with a max speed that is relevant for a moderm motorway, then any warning sign could be set at a realistic speed and people might well take notice of them
(cue the posts that think i'm a dangerous maniac suggesting something that will kill all the nations children)
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(cue the posts that think i'm a dangerous maniac suggesting something that will kill all the nations children)
Tsk tsk Westpig, you are in dodgy company here (including mine)... :o)
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Tsk tsk Westpig, you are in dodgy company here (including mine)... :o)
ditto.
the irony of his reasoning seems lost on the the o.p. (greenhey) - he seems to believe he has a right to make a judgement to exceed the "advisory" and use an appropriate speed for the conditions, but that right does not extend to other drivers for whom he wishes to apply some arbitrary mandatory limit of his own choosing. but then this is par for the course for greenhey and his stance on safety recorded numerous times in this forum. he is welcome to his views, while i continue to exercise my own judgement on the best way to drive in circumstances as i find them. note that i have not had any incidents nor near-misses in the mega miles of driving that i have clocked up over the years.
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This all comes back to speed limits are ok for everyone else but not me!
Like them or not they are there for a reason! And are supposedly for rich, poor, good driver or bad to obey! Want to drive fast? So do I, but its where and when !
Speed doesnt kill; bad driving does! Ignoring warning signs is the most basic part of bad driving ! Observation is good but not fully reliable; I know lots of roads where you think you can see for miles but you can't because of hidden dips etc.
I dont care how you all drive but I like to keep myself and my passengers alive. I let idiots at times like this, speed off, but woe betide you if you want to pull suddenly in front of me !
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some people never get thepoint, do they.
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some people never get thepoint do they. no...........it's like trying to teach Physics to schoolkids..........some get it quickly, some after a while and some won't ever
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There is some extraordinary thinking going on here. The OP took some action, and so had a safe journey, and arrived alive, in one piece, with his car undamaged. Some other people, who took somewhat different action, also achieved their journeys. What is the problem? Why feel disgruntled because someone else also managed to survive but cut a finer margin?
If I am walking along the cliff path, and see a notice warning not to go too close to the edge because it is slipping, I give it a wide berth. If someone else runs past me, who chances going closer to the edge, am I offended, annoyed? Do I criticise the sign for saying 50 feet when as has been demonstrated, 20 feet would have been safe?
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Why feel disgruntled because someone else also managed to survive but cut a finer margin? If I am walking along the cliff path and see a notice warning not to go too close to the edge because it is slipping I give it a wide berth. If someone else runs past me who chances going closer to the edge am I offended annoyed? Do I criticise the sign for saying 50 feet when as has been demonstrated 20 feet would have been safe?
you don't understand it Cliff, because you don't think like that....but if you were the sort of person who would have liked to have cut the margin by 20 feet and would have got to the end of the path a bit quicker in doing so, but didn't have the confidence to do that and kept 50 feet away.. you might be annoyed that someone else got away with it and then get on your moral high horse, mighten you.........all hypothetical of course
or even... your world is run to 'rules' it makes it easier for you and means you don't have to think too much....and it annoys you when others do their own thing, because they're getting more freedom than you.......rather than admit to yourself that you're really quite restricted in outlook, not looking at the bigger picture, it's far better to trumpet the perceived dangers, even if they're minimal or remote as that makes you look better, doesn't it
best i can come up with, because i don't really undertsand it either
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Slightly off topic but I now see that some of the posters in this thread are the type of people who "regulate" roadworks queues themselves by blocking a lane and not letting the two lanes merge in turn. There is one of these on the A52 at Bardills island Nottingham.
There is a sign clearly stating use both lanes to queue, but still there are some idiots who refuse to let people pass in the outside lane simply because they feel that as they pulled over early, everyone else should.
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How often do the signs relate to real issues? In my experience, about 5-10% of the time. If they were accurate most of the time, people would believe them and act accordingly. As it is, they are laughably inaccurate, so worthy of being ignored other than as a general "keep a weather eye out" warning.
V
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