During a long conversation with the AA today, I mentioned people being done for 33mph ina 30 area, and the chap I was speaking to said he did not believe it - lots of stories, no evidence.
I said I would collect some
Would anyone who could copy me a NIP for marginal speeding, please fax to 01730829416 or post to Sunnybank Church Lane West Meon Petersfield Hampshire GU32 1LD
l send them in one bundle to the AA tied with a pink ribbon.
Blank out your details if you wish, and remain anonymous
Please circulate widely
Idris
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Idris,
Could the man from the AA be right? I?ll wager he is. Done for 33mph in a 30 area that is.
Be interesting to see what response you get.
C
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Idris,
The Chief Constable of North Wales has said he wants folks nicked for 31 in a 30.
Don't ask for the report, I don't have it, but I do recall reading it.
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Don't hold your breath.
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The NIP may say 33 in 30 but what was the actual speed???
38 perhaps?
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"The NIP may say 33 in 30 but what was the actual speed???
38 perhaps?"
Keith, please explain??
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In my experience, and the experience of others I know. The speed noted is often quite a bit less than the actual.
For example doing 108. Police do 2 checks 1 reads 108 1 reads 98.
98 goes on the form.
It is utter rubbish to suggest that people are getting done for 31,32 or 33 in a 30 zone.
I dont even think you will see this low a speed noted on a ticket.
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Several friends have been booked for speeds in the low or mid 30s, hoping they still have NIPS
Idris
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Keith means that Rozzers will usually reduce the speed you were actually doing when recording it on the ticket to avoid a compulsory court case.
I've been knocked down from 102-94 in a DC NSL & 51-47 in a 30. [1]
This is why being *outwardly* polite and appologetic to the racist thief-hugging scum when being booked is essential.
Shame they never knock it down to a caution as they would if you'd mugged someone instead of momentarily glancing away from the clocks.
[1] I've explained elsewhere why I feel no shame for this.
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Several friends have been booked for speeds in the low or mid 30s, hoping they still have NIPS
Idris
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Several friends have been booked for speeds in the low or mid 30s, hoping they still have NIPS
Idris
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Several friends have been booked for speeds in the low or mid 30s, hoping they still have NIPS
Idris
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He also said recently that all laws on drugs, of all kinds, should be removed as 'the reasons for them have been lost in the mists of time'
Drugged, 69mph - Good?
Sober, 71 mph bad?
I think 20mph drugged - very bad
99 mph on empty motorway at 3 am, dry, clear, sober driver is a damn sight safer.
What are the qualiifications for CPO now?
Idris
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Idris,
A degree in Social Science and perhaps politics.
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I'm afraid to say I agree with Keith. You will struggle to find a 33.
They must realize they don't need to go that low to annoy people. Simply letting 85 per cent of property thieves get away with it & causing 800 casualties a year with their driving is enough to acheive their ambition of being hated by the 'honest' and loved by thieves.
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How do you mysteriously go 20 mph over the speed limit by "momentarily glancing away from the clock"? Surely going this much over the limit is either a concious descision or a serious loss of concentration over a long time.
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You obviously do not understand.
Driving at "reasonable" speeds has no direct correlation woth speed limits.
I am NOT kidding - that's what some people actually believe!!
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James S wrote:
>
> How do you mysteriously go 20 mph over the speed limit by
> "momentarily glancing away from the clock"? Surely going this
> much over the limit is either a concious descision or a
> serious loss of concentration over a long time.
Exactly, must have been a serious dereliction use of other means of sensing speed, eg noise of engine to mention but one.
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Obviously Trevor believes a limit of 30mph on a wide road with grass verges is 'reasonable'.
the road in question used to be posted at 50, and I know of only one accident in 30 years.
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NO NO you are getting it completely wrong -
It is only people who want to speed who use the word "reasonable"
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I had resolved to stay out of this repeat of previous debates, but IMHO what Trevor says, tongue in cheek, is in fact true, speed limits do have but a tenuous link with safety and can actually be counter-productive.
I spend an hour a day driving in London, all of it in 30 mph limits. Over the last couple of years I have witnessed several accidents. NONE of them involved a vehicle exceeding that speed limit. The common factor was lack of observation by one of the drivers involved.
Looking at limits themselves, I do not disagree with the entitlement of the authorities to set and enforce those limits, although I would like to see more varied limits, both higher and lower than existing, as appropriate limits have a much higher chance of being obeyed, especially if the 85th percentile rule were to be taken into account when limits are set.
However, there is a tendency among safety campaigners, and I count myself as being pro-safety, to treat 30, 40, 50 and 70 as a Holy Grail, written in tablets of stone from a Diety. But what if we were on metric measures? Would those same people who maintain that 31, 41, 51 and 71 as unsafe insist that limits be set at 48 kph, 64 kph, 80 kph and 112 kph. Of course not! So why the blind adherance?
There are many locations where 30 mph is too low, many where it is too high. This limit was introduced half a century ago in very different conditions, so why not raise it to 35 mph where appropriate and drop it to 25 mph where appropriate. OK. drivers will have to read a few more signs, but they are now expected to look out for 20 mph signs and, to be honest, 20 mph is often too low, and a wider use of 25 mph in residential areas would work better.
We also face the problem of "driving to the limit". I believe that this applies particularly on motorways and leads to bunching and lack of speed differential. IMHO the limit, set 30 years ago when it was top speed for a small family saloon, ought to be 90 mph, but realistically we could expect 80 to be accepted to come in line with most continental countries.
On the other hand, there is probably a good case for the 60 mph NSL to come down to 55 mph, which is often the actual achieved speed, but with a 65 mph posted limit where appropriate.
In short we ought to come away from a "one size fits all" policy and really look at local circumstances.
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I certainly do not have a problem with that -
What I do have a problem with is the "I think it should be x - so that is what I am going to do."
Campaign campaign - to get some limits raised as well as lowered -
but this arrogant nonsense about "I will keep to the ones I think are reasonable"
is DANGEROUS.
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Trevor,
What research are you quoting?
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Trevor Potter wrote:
> I certainly do not have a problem with that -
>
> What I do have a problem with is the "I think it should be x
> - so that is what I am going to do.".........
> but this arrogant nonsense about "I will keep to the ones I
> think are reasonable"
>
> is DANGEROUS.
And he wrote:
> ....... I have been an advanced driving instructor for 15 years ........
And he also wrote:
> 2 seconds in a 30 is nearly 5 (yes FIVE) car lengths. (88ft)
> 3 car lengths is enough.
> Make it 4 in a 40 - and 2 seconds from there on up.
Anyone got a copy of the Highway Code?;-)
(Clearly my mate Potty hasn't!)
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Brian ,
I think you are being kind to Trevor if you think he had his tongue in his cheek.
A very well written post from you and of course your final sentence, > In short we ought to come away from a "one size fits all" policy and really look at local circumstances.< is exactly what the huge majority of drivers do every second of their journey.
If Trevor knew the government regulations for speed limit setting, he would know they are flouted all over the country.
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Brian ,
I think you are being kind to Trevor if you think he had his tongue in his cheek.
A very well written post from you and of course your final sentence, > In short we ought to come away from a "one size fits all" policy and really look at local circumstances.< is exactly what the huge majority of drivers do every second of their journey.
If Trevor knew the government regulations for speed limit setting, he would know they are flouted all over the country.
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F in F - Other means of sensing speed.
My usual way to sense speed is the sound when I clout a kerb making an irresponsible overtake... ;-)
No good on motorway.
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Nice one Dave, 15 all, subtle bit of top spin on that one.
LOL
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The merits or otherwise of speed limits, and enforcement methods, have been debated endlessly on this forum.
However this thread was simply a request for hard evidence from those ?done for 33mph in a 30 area.?
Idris states ?Several friends have been booked for speeds in the low or mid 30s? . Personally I have never heard of such a case and, like the AA man, do not believe it happens.
C
Dave,
Your contribution
?This is why being *outwardly* polite and apologetic to the racist thief-hugging scum when being booked is essential?
says a lot about your strength of character! Can?t you find an Anarchists forum to post such rubbish?
It is your description of police I find offensive ? not your servile attitude when faced with authority, I would expect that.
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Being aware of one's speed through hearing the mechanical noises, 'feel' of the car, wind noise etc is not too difficult for anyone who drives the same vehicle all the time.
But anyone who drives different vehicles frequently - in my case ranging from 1938 to 2000, 2 with hoods that can be fully open and another any of 3 positions, the differences in sensory perception make it impossible to rely on them in the context of speed limits. Even changing from the 2000 car to the 1989 leaves me driving 10 to 15mph faster than it feels until I adjust.
Looking at the speedo for 0.75 secoonds - or 1.5 at night, with iris adjustment - means 33 ft at 30mph, or 52 ft at 70 mph, driven 'blind'
In those distances problems such as the car in front braking suddenly or a pedestrian stepping off the kerb can happen with tragic consequences.
44 mph not looking at the speedo gives the same stopping distance as 30mph when looking at the wrong moment in daylight.
58 mph at night
similarly 87 mph in daylight same as 70mph when looking at speedo at wrong moment, 114 mph at night.
But perhaps more important - it is not stopping distan ce that is always the issue but seeing the problem and steering out of trouble - mucn quicker than braking to a halt
Indeed this precise situation happened to me about 5 years ago, when an oncoming car stopped suddenly when the driver saw the entrance to my left that he wanted to take. Two motorcycles behind him just managed to stop, but the one near the white line fell over, still on his machine, as he stopped. Seeing him start to topple I was able to swerve to my left and see him slide along my offside wing and door, just missing my offside headlight, and avoid significant injury. Had I been looking at my speedometer at that moment, the offside front of my car might well have hit him head on and killed or seriously injured him. Incidents like this, when pedestrians step carelessly into the road, or a driver in front slams on his brakes because of a problem following drivers cannot see,
What matters then is not so much what speed you are doing but whether you are looking where you are going!
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You'll never make an "advanced" driving instructor Idris!;-)
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Maybe not- but I have driven close to 1 million miles without hurting anyone.
I had a long argument through the pages of Motor Sport in the 70s with the IAM, who fail anyone who uses 'heel and toe' techniques.
Amongst other things they claimed that drivers indicate too frequently, and that it is dangerous to do so because it means taking a hand off the wheel!
Idris
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