I think I've done something remarkably stupid. My 98 2ltr petrol Vectra has been garaged for a while and I tried to jump start it yesterday. It jumped fine the first time, I manouvered it and then went to jump it a second time but I think I might have crossed the jump leads. I got sparks when I put on the last clamp and the horn on the vectra sounded.
I pulled all the cables and reconnected more carefully (not sure if I had them on wrong as I didn't check them as I pulled them). The fuses are all fine, the Vectra starts okay but cuts out when the jump lead is removed. The battery does charge because if I leave it 'jumping' for while the car will run on it's own for a few minutes until the charge runs out. The Battery warning light was on but flared and went out, it now does not light up at ignition.
I think I've burnt out the diode pack on the alternator by reversing the polarity. So I expect I'll have to replace the alternator. However, I read somewhere that a blown bulb breaks the circuit. Does anyone know if this is true. Will I need to pull the dash and change the bulb to get the car started again?
|
Hlyon
A blown warning light bulb does affect the alternator's excitation on most cars. [Though, as everywhere; things are changing fast...]
A quick blip to 5,000 revs, once it's warmed up a bit, will usually cut-in the alternator and it'll charge until it's switched off again; [if it's got any diodes left!]
Does everything else on the car work? ECU's don't like reversed polarity.
|
I think I killed the alternator before killing the warning light.
I was able to get the Vectra running only while hooked up to the supply car, removing the jump lead made it cut out. At this point the warning light was on but was flickering a little bit.
When I seen the light flickering I thought that it might be because the battery was starting to charge, so I gave it a little gas and the warning light flared and died.
The car still starts and I don't get any other warning lights, so I would assume that the ECU should be okay.
|
Doesn't sound good; I think taking the alternator for test/repair would be a good move.
|
|
|
|
you have prob destroyed the cell or cells in the battery, try another battery
|
I was under the impression that it's cheaper just pick up a recon unit. I will look into the cost of getting it tested.
I think the battery is okay. After leaving it charging off the supply car for a while, the Vectra continues to run on it's own power but only for a few minutes, presumably until the charge in the battery runs out.
|
It's always difficult to assess accidental damage at a distance, but the symptom of the warning lamp becoming brighter and presumably blowing as you increased the machine's speed would indicate that the positive side output diodes are now open circuit. I'm afraid this is wholly consistent with the machine being connected to a reversed battery, where the main bridge diodes become forward biased, pass a huge current and burn out.
It might just be worth making a few enquiries as to whether your machine is fitted with a fusible link in the output circuit - some were, especially French machines. A cheap repair could then be made, otherwise it's a rebuild with a new diode pack if you can find someone to do it competently, or a new alternator.
659.
|
Thanks, I was expecting to have to get an alternator.
I tried looking for a fusible link last night. I wasn't sure where to look or what it looked like. From what I could find on the web, I'm looking for a section of cable thinner than the rest. Probably connected at the battery, possibly marked as a fusible link.
I wasn't sure which terminal it would be at. They both have a couple of different wires leading off them. I think the main thing I discovered was the vast amount of cables that litter the engine bay.
The drivers side terminal (positive I think but can't remember without looking at it) leads one cable into a box of relays and the other straight into the main loom. The other terminal seems to lead up under the water bottle to the bulkhead.
I can't see anything obvious, does anyone have more info on Fusable Links.
|
On early Valeo machines, the fusible link was inside the alternator, under the plastic cover adjacent to the main output terminal. It was a simple spanner job to replace it - but I've not seen a machine like this for many years.
A replacement diode pack might well be a feasible option if the machine is not too ancient as the type of damage caused by this "accident" is unlikely to damage anything other than the diodes. Try a few auto electrical specialists, preferably independent. There are plenty of pattern spares available for these machines.
659.
|
659
I don't think that Vectra's have Ford-style fusible links. They've got a box of Maxi ATO fuses under the bonnet; but I don't recall one that does the alternator.
If the B+ terminal on the alternator is still live, then it's circuit should be OK. As you so rightly said; the diode pack will be toast.
Ducellier/Paris-Rhone alternator bolt-on fuse plates; now that's going back a few decades. I've fitted a few of those at the road-side on various 2CV's; Ami 8's; Dyane's; etc. And, as I recall, a Vincent Black Knight too.
|
UPDATE - Help required
I bought a second hand alternator off Ebay for £23.50 (inc P+P). While I was waiting for it to arrive, I decided to replace the dash bulb.
This wasn't as much of a nightmare as I thought it would be, also replaced the ODO bulb which had been out when I bought the car, so that was nice. Tested they light up when the ignition is on so that should be okay.
The alternator has since arrived and I went up last night to try and fit it. It took me about an hour (I'm no mechanic) to strip the air ducting, unbolt and disconnect the alternator. However I can't get it out. There is a gap at the top and one at the bottom but neither of them seem to big enough. I spend three hours last night trying to take it out at different angles.
Has anyone else managed this? Did you need to strip anything else out?
Hugh
|
|
Have you tried another battery in it as milkyjoe suggests as it sounds as though you have a dead battery and that will cause the car to cut out when you dissconnect jump leads. Well at least the air bags didn't deploy!. I had a customer with a vauxhall who swapped his battery with a caravan battery just to try & charge it & both his air bags deployed!!!!!!!!! That was a very expensive battery change!. The alternators are a fiddle but do come out. The alternators are renowned for failing but did you try it after you replaced the bulbs to see if it was charging although it wont charge a dead battery. Batterys now often fail suddenly with no prior warning. The GM replacements are quite good value for money.
|
|
I think I covered these points in my earlier posts. The bulb blew after the fact and the battery does hold a charge. See above.
|
Alternator will come out but its a case of twisting and turning it to get it out. Loosen or remove everything that is in the way just to help.
Few swear words normally help.
|
|
The Haynes Manual tells your to take it out the bottom but I felt like it seemed to get closer coming up out the top?
|
I took the alternator out the top, disconnected a few extra bits (fuel line, idle control motor, etc) and after some perserverance and a certain amount of brute force it came out. I wasn't really looking forward to putting the new one in, until I realised that it's smaller. All the fittings are the same but the diameter of the housing is very slightly smaller. It still required a bit of wiggling to get it in but it went much easier.
I wonder if the alternator that I've just taken off had been a replacement from a different model.
Got everything put back together (other than a few covers, etc) and jumped it. It started and then when I took the leads off it continued to run on it's own. Looks like a fix!
Thanks for your help!
|
|
Manufacturers frequently use several suppliers;the smaller one available for one of my Fords was,in fact,heavier in weight,tho' it's overall dimensions were less.
|
|
|
