I get really annoyed this time of year when the motoring press start laying in to caravanners. Surely the motoring press is for all the motoring public not just the select few. DT Saturday section is great and always includes a broad range of articles on cars and bikes so why ostracise caravanners - there are bad drivers and annoying vehicles of every description but we should stick together as motorists - witness the discussion on Motorway tolls......... coming to a cinema near you soon. The sooner we all pull together ( no pun intended ) perhaps we become a stronger body.
I ride bikes, drive cars and pull a caravan occasionally, I consider myself a motorist not a car driver, biker or caravanner and respect all these 'groups' when doing one of the other.
Cheers :-)
( originally posted as a thread under Motorcycle Insurance )
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Caravaners.....shoot the lot of them along with anyone who drives a people carrier and thinks it's a GTi. For christ sake, it's a van with seats.
I drive an XJR, a V8 90 and ride a big custom bike. I am, therefore, a driver and a biker. I am not, in any way shape or form, a caravaner.
If I remember correctly a certain Mr. Clarkson once took a Datsun Cherry and catapulted it to oblivion. Let's start a campaign to have the same apparatus, obligatory for caravans.....and their owners.
I shall now retire for a while whilst the abuse floods in.
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The big question about caravanning is: why? The issue was concisely summed up by Clarkson on Room 101 a few years ago - he asked how he could explain to his wife that he was taking her on a holiday where she had to cook on a little gas burner and c**p in a bucket!
Pat
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I've to cr*p in a bucket oh dam it oh bother it.
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Caravanners AAAGGGGHHH. why do most of them drive along in underpowered old crates with their minds on their holiday instead of the 30 frustrated cars behind them. Why is there no VED for caravans?
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A bit more tolerance of other people would make this world a happier place.
Not saying that just because I tow a caravan (with 3.0 Omega MV6, so even with fully laden caravan on I am still faster than most cars), but just a general observation.
There is room for vast improvements in towing standards & education, and also maintenance standards of caravans. And also in consideration by towers for other road users, and vice versa.
Some people can't afford two BMWs and a top of the range motorbike and foreign package holidays. Others enjoy the "back to nature" type of holiday. Either way it's just another of life's choices, suits some but not all. But either way there is no reason to stop other people's pleasure just cos it doesn't suit you.
In my experience, camping/caravanning is a very social and relaxed style of holiday. Some of you would do well to try it, it might help reduce your stress levels.
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If you have an ounce of sympathy for the average caravaner then please feel free to join me in my daily drive to/from work in the summer when I can often be found on the main A-road to the North Somerset/Devon coast within a 30-40 strong queue behind a Ford Sierra towing a vast 6-berth caravan for 25 miles at 30 miles an hour without pulling over.
I know that sentence was far too long but it was justified.
I say ban them from the roads between the hours of 6-9am and 4-8pm and make them pay road tax in relation to number of berths.
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Never mind, Guy. As I mentioned in a previous thread caravans will become a rarity in time. None of the drivers who passed their tests since 1996 are entitled to tow a caravan without taking a seperate trailer test, and hardly anyone has bothered according to the DVLA.
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best thing I have heard all day; thanks.
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OoooH! that's a good one! I had missed that.
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It's a long time since I was in the Netherlands, but then they were only allowed on from six pm to six am, as best as I can remember.
What I want is a half, or even a quarter hour, when only Toad-san, or faster, is allowed!
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Plagiarist.
Impostor.
Have to agree, though.
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I'm sorry but I haven't got a clue what Mr Eckie is on about.
Must be my age.
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Hello, guys; I tow a caravan a dozen or so times a year. It's legal, got lights and a spare wheel. The outfit may not accelerate as fast as a Lotus Elise, but it can maintain (a legal) 50 mph on the open road and 60 mph on motorways. I believe we should pay a tax to use it on the road and the things should be subject to MoT testing in order to give caravanners some credibility and to rid the roads of the ancient junk that still clutters up e.g. the A1 in the summer.
But ... in the brave new world where caravans are taxed and MoTed, would this help your feelings if you were stuck behind one? I doubt it. It's all about attitude. You'ld still fret if you couldn't make your journey those few seconds quicker. Caravans are here for a while; you'll see more of them now summer approaches and the answer is in your grasp. Set off earlier, choose a different route or buy a car with more poke so you can get past. I've posted before about increasing the speed limits for caravans; those that can't cope will expire at the roadside or destroy themselves, lemming-like on the motorway.
Live and let live, don't cultivate your boy-racer ulcers, and stay safe. And, much to Madame's continual astonishment, I do pull over if I see a queue developing behind me.
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Hello Darcy,
You ignore all these wassocks sunshine, bring your caravan, visit us in the Wyre Forest and enjoy yourself. We need the tourist revenue after FMD!
Cheers,
Stuart
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>Author: Wee Eckie (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
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>when only Toad-san, or faster, is allowed!
Oh Tomo, and you were doing *SO* well !!!!!!
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Who is that tomo another tory ****?
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What's up wi doin it in a bucket?
I thought everybody did.
Ave I missed summat?
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Smokie, caravanning might reduce YOUR stress levels but it does very little for those caught behind YOU! The interest alone, on the cost of a decent caravan, would provide a very acceptable dinner B&B anywhere in the country with a decent flush toilet thrown in for nothing!
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As pointed out, I tow with a powerful car. Little is caught behind me, I know because I check.
Most of the year I am an "ordinary" driver, frustrated by delays caused by any slower vehicle, but accepting of their right to be on the road. That's what's missing here, a little tolerance.
btw just for those that aren't aware, towers cannot use lane 3 on the motorway. So if you are following one in lane 2 feel free to overtake if required. There's no need to wave as you pass.
I often get stuck in lane 2 when I pull out of an empty lane 1 to avoid undertaking a slower moving middle lane hog, who then persistently refuses to move over. I am sure that it is out of ignorance and lack of awareness, rather than any spite towards caravanners, as it happens all the time whether or not I am towing. But without the trailer I can use lane 3. So don't go assuming that it's always the caravan in lane 2 holding up the traffic.
Anyway, the real point here was tolerance in general, not defence of caravans. Sorry if I've hijacked myself.
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A big problem with caravans is that no-one seems to overtake these days. They will sit in a queue - starting a couple of feet from the back of an unstable GRP death-trap getting more and more narked, leaving no spaces between cars.
So when you try and overtake you have to
a; find a safe spot where you can pass 6 cars and a shed called 'Sprite'
b; avoid the dope who sees you approaching and thinks - "if he's overtaking he'll get in front, but it also means it's clear so I'll pull out, still in fifth and see how good his brakes are. I might even flick my indicator once he's had to change his underwear" and
c; deal with getting stuck at the end of an even slower queue a mile on, but this time you've got a barely roadworthy car, front end pointed skywards with the main braking and steering tyres having only limited contact with the road, driven by people who think Hotels are the work of Satan, reading a map whilst the kids repeatedly ask why they can't go to Disney World and not spend two weeks p**ing in a bucket in a shed in the rain in Deveon, dragging a ton of underbraked steel and plastic tailgating you to prove that there was no point to your 'dangerous and stupid overtaking manouver'.
Not a big fan of caravans as you can see, but I think peoples attitude to being overtaken requires some improvement, and also learn how to overtake.
Piers
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The reason they end up in a long chain on motorways is the refusal of other drivers to allow them time/space to pull out to overtake. Despite indicating well in advance, and an empty lane 3, drivers will not move out of lane 2 to allow a carvan to overtake another. When I used to tow with a car with less power this meant that it was impossible for me to get past slower ones, hence the chain. Now I have a bit more oomph I do not have to depend quite so much on courtesy from other drivers - you could be waiting years for any of that.
Lorries end up in convoys for the same reason. Sandwiched cars can easily jump out and pass, leaving the lorries nose to tail. I'm sure lorry drivers must suffer the same problem of over-ambitious motorists trying to overtake, misjudging, then cutting in on them. These drivers do need to bear it in mind that, like it or not, the stopping distance is far greater due to more momentum - many is the time that someone has almost had me in their back window because they cut in late and brake hard. Consideration....
Having said that, I agree that there are some really cr*ppy caravan towers out there. However, I don't believe the percentage is more than the general percentage of ordinary cr*ppy motorists though. The topic is just another means of spouting a generalisation about driving skills based on a visible feature, others being female drivers/using a phone/being too old/driving a Volvo.
Oh, and please notice on motorways how caravanners tend to be much more lane disciplined that your average driver, i.e. overtake then move back in. They are usually aware of the reduced performance, unlike many other drivers who hog lanes.
Lastly, when not towing I am probably guilty of all of the above...well, except being a woman, driving a Volvo and being old!
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Point taken and understood Guy. Please note when this started I was not trying to defend the caravanner per se, I was trying to introduce a little more tolerance.
I agree there are too many inexperienced people with underpowered cars towing unstable caravans, but they don't all "crap in a bucket", do not deserve to "be shot" and don't have to explain to anyone one this forum (or J Clarkson) "why" they enjoy caravanning. I don't believe a holiday hotel is the work of Satan, although I have been to some which have made me wonder why people ever return.
I actually quite like the idea of banning caravans from (certain?) roads between peak times. That has logic and a great deal of common sense. After all, like most caravanners I do much more motoring without the trailer than with it. Also agree on tests for vehicles and drivers.
However driving an "XJR a VR 90 and a custom bike" and being able to holiday wherever/ whenever you like doesn't make you a better person I'm afraid. And people who don't/can't are not not necessarily worse people...different strokes for different folks. Chill people...
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Would smokie like to tell me where the 3rd or for that matter the 2nd lane is on the 30 mile route on the A358 from Taunton to Minehead, Somerset?
This area is swamped by caravans in the summer and a little courtesy to those who live here and pay the highest water rates in the country to pay for the clean beaches they rarely use wouldn't go amiss.
I'm not against people's rights to use the roads but when as one can guarantee a 20-30 mile hold-up on the M5 at various points from Bristol to Plymouth *every* summer weekend then I hope you can see our frustrations.
Training, testing and taxing - that'll sort them out. The caravan sits in the car-port or a semi in Birmingham all year and then has to trundle down to Cornwall, badly loaded and by a driver who slams on his brakes the moment he begins the descent of Telegraph Hill - WHALLOP - caravan overtakes car and the tailback begins.
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Thanks smokie,
I must say that after the hell of Foot and Mouth, the thing that warmed my cockles the most was seeing caravans in the farmers field next to the paper mill I work in. That signalled the end to the hell the whole area and counrty had been through although too late for the businesses in Dunster, Porlock, Exford, etc that had gone out of business.
Those in their caravans are vital to the tourist trade in the beautiful area in which I live but they have to realise people live and work here and it isn't just a holiday playground for the urban majority!
Rant over and dummy well and truly spat out!
Regards,
Guy!
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Just as bad as caravans are those thoughtless people who drive ancient Land Rovers which amble along at 35 mph towing big twin axle trailers loaded down with parts of other ancient Land Rovers...
...err...
Perhaps I should fit a tow bar to my Audi instead.
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Richard,
Just had a clearout here. Chap called the other night and was so tempted by the bargains he took a trailer load, you know the bits that are too large to go inside so you put them in the garden.
Bet his good lady was well pleased to see that lot arrive!
David
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Cracking thread, Pete.
I've just got back from clogging up the M5 and a few minor ones (Malverns) too! What's more, I'll be taking the caravan out again in about a month's time. If you're all nice to me I'll tell you where I'm going, so you can go the other way.
HAND, all.
Ian
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Most replies what I imagined but serious, considered replies have preached tolerance of other road users whatever they be driving / riding. I am not sure if banning will work or we'd be banning all sorts of vehicles just because they don't comply with the performance characteristics demanded by a few at certain times of the day although I note that JCBs are banned at peak hours on our local dual carriageway.
I agree with training, MOTs etc and ask for tolerance and consideration for all.
Thanks,
Pete
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