ANPR on a farmtrack type road, all very sinister.
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The accident was on the A1 - presumably the car went off the main road during the accident. Seems like a 'good' use of APNR to me.
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So up to 70 people saw fit not to contact the Police, well, that's just democracy. Using spy cameras and databases without consent to track people and then oblige them to (or for any other purpose) is not the tradition or precedent of Britain, and it is the precipit of a slippery slope to hell.
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So up to 70 people saw fit not to contact the Police, well, that's just democracy.
No it's not - it means that the people didn't see what happened, or did not want to say that they saw something.
Using spy cameras and databases without consent to track people and then oblige them to (or for any other purpose) is not the tradition or precedent of Britain, and it is the precipit of a slippery slope to hell.
I certainly agree with that. "1984" was, it seems to me, a long time ago.
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hmmm......worthy cause and all that.......but is this what ANPR is all about?........thin end of the wedge?
I thought that the advertised purpose of those cameras was to detect "wanted" vehicles or those without insurance etc, but it looks like they are being used instead to build a database of people's movements. :(
Predictable, but interesting to see it confirmed. So much for data protection principles.
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>> hmmm......worthy cause and all that.......but is this what ANPR is all >> about?........thin end of the wedge? I thought that the advertised purpose of those cameras was to detect "wanted" vehicles or those without insurance etc, but it looks like they are being used instead to build a database of people's movements. :(
Here it is, from the horse's mouth. ACPO press release: tinyurl.com/34u4b4
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What principle is it that makes neurosis about data, a higher priority than investigating the circumstances leading to the violent deaths of 4 citizens? Data about number plates is hardly a new step. Suppose there were observers watching the road, who noted the numbers of drivers around at that time. Is there something fundamentaly wrong about noting information, or is it just that ANPR is more efficient? The nub is that vehicles are recognisable by their registration number, and can be traced. How they are traced is not forging an Orwellian nightmare: its merely a better way to trace. If drivers wish to be protected from detection, the principle of having a number plate has to be addressed first.
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nortones, the people are dead, not lost, they won't magically come alive, just because the state and private companies such as Capita, ICSTIS, Nice are allowed to watch us with their shouting CCTV, CCTV that can see under your clothes, ANPR, Whispering Trees etc.... It falls flat on a cost benefits analysis.
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live ? did live, from habit that became instinct ? in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
orwell.ru/library/novels/1984/english/
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The family, the coroner, the police, all need to find out why this happened. A train accident is properly investigated, but road deaths are to be reduced to the level of road kill, because of a perverse disinclination to follow up potential witnesses? ACPO and the Police have it right. BTW, CBA allows about £1,000,000 per death before the cost of recification is considered disproportionate. Thats the measures, not the investigation. Road accidents are not properly investigated at present. The guilty are sometimes also victims, but I'm more interested in prevention. If the cause was preventable, whether by a third party, the party should be identified. So, 4 people written off then? Brave New World indeed.
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I agree with Nortones on this one. It's just technology applied to police work. Yes, the technology once established could be put to use for bad by an oppressive government; but absence of such technology hasn't stopped oppressive regimes in the past. Meanwhile, it's criminals who benefit from the opposition of the Luddites to simple efficiency and effective measures.
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We all know the technology is around - it's hardly a secret. Everytime you switch on your phone, go to the cashpoint your location is recorded. Someone alluded to the observers at the side of the road recording car numbers - quite right, Police routinely trawl non-ANPR material (like CCTV Systems) when investigating major incidents and will quite rightly then trawl PNC to identify suspects/witnesses. When you use a registered vehicle on a road you by definition consent to the use of that "data" you then generate by using a correctly regisetred vehicle on a Public Road. Nothing wrong at all with it.
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I have genuine worries about the 'big brother' angle.....
I am glad that modern technology is used to catch the bad guys... and in reality Mr Innocent has nothing to worry about does he, if he's done no wrong
but...
last year when i popped to a take away.........and received my parking ticket in the post, because a CCTV operator from the council zapped me.......or the speed camera debate etc........where there is no discretion, no common sense, no understanding of the facts...just a rigid compliance policy administered by someone on £5 an hour who couldn't care less about ethics, personal freedoms, democracy etc
Well i'm uncomfortable with that. We're supposed to have those freedoms, some of our rellies fought and died for them. At what point will it become like Soviet Communism in the past?
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I share you're discomfort at some of the mindless application of rules that are supposed to be for everybody's benefit, turning them into pointless exercise in obstruction, bureaucracy and stupidity. I don't think that's a technology problem though. It can't be long before we have to scrap the village pantomime or make everybody in the cast and crew have a CRB check because there are children in it - and who will benefit from that?
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There is a difference between the law and enforcement of the law.
I would have thoguht that we'd have wanted 100% enforcement and 100% accurate enforcement of all lawas. And if technology helps, then great. e.g. speed cameras per se are good.
We should worry about, and attack, inappropriate, unneccessary or dangerous laws which are the real issue to my mind. e.g. 30mph limit on a non-residential dual carriageway is daft.
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We have a number of people in our village who think that when they "pop" to the cash dispeser, or pick up their children, they can park on the pedestrian crossing or school zig-zags. They are being disabused of this abuse of "freedom" through the ability to monitor anti-social behaviour. If the driving population (and its only a small proportion who decide these rules are for mugs) all followed the rules, there would be no need for this intrusion, would there?
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My fear is the increase in the use of technology to control humans, and to detect wrong-doing, identify the person, and then automatically fire-up a laser-printer which even stuffs the envelope with a fine. My fear is not of machines becoming intelligent, but the very fact that they are not intelligent. Modern CCTV can identify people and get 'insights through interactions', and scrutinise what we do whether at the airport or a shopping centre. A CCTV system can tell if the same person gets into a car as the same person who parked it. Why are we giving such power to systems and technoloy, all humans involved in this are doing now is what the machines can't do, such as the Police arresting you. This is why everything we do is being so proceduralised - so that the procedures can ultimately be perfected and fed into machines. I am sick of machines dictating everything we do. I think this nightmare is unfolding on the roads, with all this road-side monitoring and identification equipment, and latterly the technology being built into new cars capable of operating all controls or switching off the engine.
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I can see where you're coming from Ashok, but the data collected by machines to identify culprits still has to be put into effect by humans. I can't see that being automated as other than minor offences, with fixed penalties, the prosecution has to convince a court. There are nightmares here and now to address..
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It's when a totally innocent person finds he can't fly any where because he "just happened" to be driving along a road a few times, completely innocently and unknowingly in convoy with some undesirables. But these associations were recorded and he ends up on a 'no fly list'.
Zip forwards a few years when everyones DNA is recorded and sampling is cheap - men in uniform sweeping up the streets and automatic fines being sent out from DNA samples on dropped sweet papers.
Orwell got his dates a bit wrong.
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Ha = just thought of something, if a nice letter from the Police arrived and you weren't meant to be there at all !
Suppose you could b=put it down to cloned number plates !
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