As the title suggests, I'm interested in getting a Defender. My partner and I already have a car each so it would be used for weekends. I'm no expert on 4x4's so a litlle help or advice would be gratefully received. I've trawled the web for some inspiration and have the following questions:
90,110 or 130?
Are ex-Army non turbo versions any good?
Most vehicles I've seen on the web have quite high mileages. What's the reliability like?
We have a 2 year old and a baby on the way so are car seats viable?
200, 300 or TD5? What's the difference?
I'm reasonably handy with a spanner, so are they easy to self maintain?
What are like to live with on a day to day basis?
No budget at the moment. I've read HJ's overview on CBCB. Any other experiences, anecdotes, words of advice/warning much appreciated.
Phil
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I have visions of the Fast Show ...
www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fastshow/characters/offroader...l
but please don't take it personally.
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With all respect to the BR, you'd be better off hanging around some of the LR forums they are full of helpful people who will give you more info than you could wish for.
Be patient when looking there are loads around and shiny ones found in the back of the LR magazines are almost certainly top end price-wise - set up a search on the AutoTrader website with email alerts when on-spec vehicles are posted.
There are smaller aircraft carriers than a 110.
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90,110 or 130?
Depends on how much space you need; 90's are cramped, 110's are better but unwieldy, 130's are special purpose.
Are ex-Army non turbo versions any good?
Complicated; slow; often knackered. Avoid.
Most vehicles I've seen on the web have quite high mileages. What's the reliability like?
Absolutely awful. Tinkering with it every time it goes wrong is part of the fun. If that's not for you - look at Toyotas.
We have a 2 year old and a baby on the way so are car seats viable?
May be possible on a 110....?
200, 300 or TD5? What's the difference?
200; rough and noisy, blows up a lot. 300 nearly as rough and noisy. TD5; Hopelessly unreliable; just pile up your money and burn it.!
I'm reasonably handy with a spanner, so are they easy to self maintain?
Once you get used to their little foibles - yes... Generally speaking. [Just as well....]
What are like to live with on a day to day basis?
Different.... Very different. Love or loathe - nothing in between.
Take an real expert, not just an owner, with you to look at any. Worth every penny you pay them. Don't touch any that have been changed from the spec they were built; most "TDi conversions" are rubbish and endless grief.
[Warning; they can be as additive as a bad crack habit... Just a lot more expensive!]
Right: that lot should have upset all the glassy-eyed afficionados!! Tin hat on.... Incoming...
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Don't buy a Spanish spec one.....(like I did) But as above really. It's a love hate relationship.
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With a young family like that you should be enjoying the best days of your life. Take the wife and kids out into the country at the weekend and make the most of it. You don't want to be spending Saturday and Sunday up to your armpits in oil and grease, with the wife indoors struggling with two small kids.
Get something reliable and hassle free - not to mention safe.
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For a real love hate relationship try a Series 111
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Alyn Beattie
I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
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Alyn
Now you're talking - that's a proper Land-Rover! Simple, basic, crude but effective - and very easily fixed. Less is more.
Who cares if the roof leaks like a sieve when there's no soft trim to speak of... It just runs out of the holes in the floor and takes some of the mud with it!
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We had 2 wonderful days of snow in February, that's when a Series 111 proves its worth. I was thinking about renaming one of mine Thunderbird 6 with the amount of people and vehicles we rescued.
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Alyn Beattie
I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
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I've no idea what the charm of these noisy, slow, poorly finished, uncomfortable vehicles is, but it definitely exists. A year or two ago I was lucky enough to be invited to a corporate Land Rover test day where I was able to drive back-to-back a Defender, a Range Rover and a Discovery over the same route which included A and B roads and some interesting moorland for which I needed expert prompting about diff. locks and the best route to take between rocks and ruts. The Disco was, for me, the best all-rounder. The Defender I found a deeply hostile vehicle. The RR didn't inspire me either, especially when i found out how much it cost.
FWIW my take on your post asking about day to day living, reliability and a baby is that it's probably not suited to your lifestyle, but good luck anyway.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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May I suggest you take 2 dispirin or cocadamol and lie down in a darkened room until the feeling goes away.
Madness imo.
Why buy an unreliable and noisy piece of caro when you can buy a Toyota RAV4 or a Subaru Forester?
madf
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Have a look at this similar thread a while back...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=45603&...f
...particularly the posts of mine on 8th Oct (buying/running) and 10th Oct (kids seats/safety).
If you want to share the fun with wife and kids a 90 is out so it has to be a 110. Then they are an unwieldy great thing where the famliy still needs to be very very resiliant to stand the lack of comforts. In that case I would mirror my advice in that previous thread and get a Discovery instaed. They are far far better value and great family fun with a massive rise in refinement compared with a Defender (but obviously not besides a car!).
We are just at the end of 2.5yrs with a 1993 Discovery as a second family vehicle. The whole family has enjoyed it and we've even chosen for the last two years to do our 1,500 mile Scottish summer holiday tour in it rather than take the proper car!
BTW I'm sorry but the throwaway remarks about LR reliability are not entirely fair. I look after a few 200/300 models and they do not break down if well maintained where their foibles can be anticipated. The 200 engine is probably the most reliable and will go to 300,000mls plus easily. The problem with the ones that *blow up* is folks expect them to run with no oil changes, low oil levels, forget the timing belt and don't bother with the cooling system.
I would agree though that if you are after a Land Rover and do consider a Discovery it may be best to avoid later models with the TD5 engine, air suspension, ABS etc. It is these twiddly bits where LRs can fall down.
DW
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"The Defender I found a deeply hostile vehicle"
That so describes it in this day and age - but I still love mine.
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My dad's 110 Defender seems to be OK (touch wood).
The thing that I really hate about it is that there is no elbow room on the right hand side, and the seats dont go back quite enough for the driver and there definitely isn't enough leg room for the middle row of passengers. Apart from that I don't mind being dripped on by the condensation on the sun roof and the fact that the doors never have a nice snug fit when clsoed.
I would say that it is no way near as much fun as the old V8 one that we had.
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Might I suggest Toyota Hilux Double Cab? Its far tougher than any LR and stupidly reliable, but the older ones are crude enough that it still has that worktool feel that I think the LR has.
Buy a Hilux and you will never need another. Buy a LR and you will wish you had never been born.
If you really must buy a Defender and I would strongly suggest you dont, buy a V8 because atleast it will have some poke and the V8 is tougher than the diesels, plus economy wont be that much worse if you factor in how unreliable the diesels are and the subsequent repairs.
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Yes - but you can't love a Hilux in the same way as you can cheerfully hate the Landie ! But I would never use a Landie as primary transport.
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We had a 1990 Shogun V6 auto LWB - very comfortable to drive, no unexpected bills, and will last for ever - but the OP might enjoy a Mercedes G-Wagen - made in the era when the three-pointed star reigned supreme.
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Has anyone mentioned side impact protection, how easy they are to roll and what happens if they do?
A chap rolled one here in a low speed cambered turn and was crushed to death
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Has anyone mentioned side impact protection, how easy they are to roll and what happens if they do? A chap rolled one here in a low speed cambered turn and was crushed to death
By that logic, you shouldnt ride a bike, walk on a footpath beside a road or ride a motorbike.
Its about accepting risk. An individuals choice.
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I borrowed a swb 1975 vintage (series III ?) a few years back for a day and was shocked.
Shocked at how slow, noisy, bouncy, and generally crude it was. Shocked at how heavy the clutch and steering were. Shocked at how uncomfortable the driving position was (no elbow room between seat and door).
But I was also shocked how much fun it was.
Like others have said - love/hate all the way. I would query it's suitability as a family vehicle, though - they have the potential to damage young ears, I would have thought.
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I drove a 1967 landRover in wellies and hiking boots. It was great up and down unmade roads pulling a trailer.
On roads it was noisy (the tyre noise!, the wind noise!) drank like a fish, had heavy steering and was impossible in town.
If you have a diesle and access to red diesel.. tolerable. Otherwise like driving a vintage car... Horrible..
Designed for people who think self flagellation is for wimps imo:-))
madf
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No No No - They are not road cars, they are off road cars for use on roads in between fields so any comparison between a LR and a road car is irrelevent, if you want a 4x4 to drive it on roads you buy a RAV4 or something like that. A RAV4 is cool to drive on a road (i'm sure) but despite it's vintage feel a Landie would be all over it in a field....people don't understand them that's all. Basically if you live in a town you don't need one.
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Except for parking in the supermarket car park among the chavs and chavettes PU?
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I have never driven a Defender, but 2 colleagues had them. One used his for his smallholding, so could justify his dual purpose vehicle. Distinct advantage in the West Midlands, where we were based, as the toughness of the thing discouraged cutting up. The other driver use his for long trips to the Lakes via M6 and minor roads: purgatory! So, the only advantages seem to be: 1. micturating-off other drivers who are incensed by the sloth. 2. Not giving a monkeys that they are bothered. 3. Functionally good for farming etc. Otherwise, avoid.
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I used to test these vehicles for possibly the largest user of them in the country. I found the crass bad design and sheer unreliability of the things unbelievable - things would break which would defy logic, the build quality was dreadful (eg. new transmissions full of machining swarf) and I swear that they never ever made two alike.
I used to squirm at the failures - and I wasn't paying the bills.
659.
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