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Has anyone on this board personally had problems which they in all honesty can say was caused by this fuel?
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Having weighed and balanced the evidence. What swings it for me is the OP's post. This was a full day before the hype hit the press. I find myself erring towards the petrol contamination theory.
My judgment is based on ~:-
1. It's not a news silly season - there's plenty of hard, soft and non-news (you know celebrity stuff who cares apart from her nearest and dearest whether Charlotte Church person is pregnant) out there at the moment.
2. The OP post which is evidence based from a trusted source.
3. The "fact" that there is a shortage of components due to this "spike".
4. That the original area is isolated to the SE
5. The techie stuff about silicon being a known cause of death.
and finally
5. If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck it most probably is a duck.
I will happily contribute a tenner if I'm wrong to any pay pal account holding charity.
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.. will happily contribute a tenner if I'm wrong to any pay pal account holding charity
i think it is pure hysteria, and if i am wrong, i will contribute £1000 to my favourite charity.
by the way, the hysteria is spreading.
the london-itv news just now asked what would happen if the contaminated petrol has been used to fuel airplanes !
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>> i think it is pure hysteria, and if i am wrong, i will contribute £1000 to my favourite charity.
Very, very, very generous!
The problem is that it is hysteria, though it is not pure hysteria, rather it is hysteria contaminated by some dodgy petrol!
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SFAIK petrol powered aircraft use a different distillation of fuel which is not closely related to what we buy at the pumps, it is failrly octane as light a/c engines are relaively low compression.
We have to hope that Dalglish's favourite charity isn't the Dalglish beer and petrol fund!
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cheddar said:There has been a spate of failures well above the mean norm, older less sophisticated vehicles suffer less or not at all. ALL vehicles effected have been reported to have fueled at supermarket sites supplied by ONE distributor....
etc.etc.
afaik, none of these statements above by cheddar has been proven. there are no statistics, just anecdotal evidence and hysteria fuelled by the media and the internet.
there is more substantial evidence for life for flying saucers than that.
actually, if your brakes or disks have had to be replaced in the last week, that too was probably just as much to do with this duff silicon and alcohol laced petrol.
p.s. i have been using the tesco 99 octane ethanol stuff in my beemer for over a year and have filled it up twice in the last week at the tesco in sunbury-on-thames. the car is running perfectly normally. so there. it proves that the south east tesco 99 ethanol petrol is perfectly ok. i must now go on tv to state my case, and start a petition on the no.10 weebsite to stop people spreading all this mass hysteria nonsense.
i raise my stake to £2000.
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afaik, none of these statements above by cheddar has been proven. there are no statistics, just anecdotal evidence and hysteria fuelled by the media and the internet. there is more substantial evidence for life for flying saucers than that.
I also said it is circumstantial evidence though it is pretty convincing IMO.
You are full of puns tonight Dalglish, "fuelled by the media" ;-)
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We have to hope that Dalglish's favourite charity isn't the Dalglish beer and petrol fund!
Bet you a fiver it is.
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SFAIK petrol powered aircraft use a different distillation of fuel which is not closely related to what we buy at the pumps, it is failrly octane as light a/c engines are relaively low compression.
They also tend to be fairly low tech, nearer Cortina than Mondeo.
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www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=224327
This MB garage seems to be getting a lot of problem cars.
&
"Customers are paying between £800 and £1000 for the repairs." - MB garage
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I'd bet the tanker delivering had contamination from an earlier load, e.g. lube oil containing silicone, or even a food additive containing silicone oil. BBC and motoring industry pundits clearly unaware of basic science.
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">But after 30,000 to 50,000 miles<"
For a HEGO? Or even an EGO? I have some experience of running modern cars to higher mileages, get the oil up to temp and then (when road conditions permit) run it up to the red line. Long motorway runs also help keep HEGO/EGO clean.
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From the BBC website: "By 1730 GMT the website had received more than 4,600 e-mails and texts from motorists complaining of problems with their cars after buying fuel"
Wow, the last time my car broke down it was also after buying fuel. In fact, now I come to think of it, evry car I've ever had that broke down was refuelled at some time.
V
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I asked earlier today: has anyone on this board personally had problems which they in all honesty can say were caused by this fuel?
Up to now no-one has said that they have personally had any problem at all, just a load of waffle.
Is this just mass-hysteria?
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>>Is this just mass-hysteria?
Well, if it is, why would garage owners be joining in? IMHO if only 20% of the claims are true then there are still hundreds if not a thousand or more motorists with a real fuel related problem.
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My 2p worth is part of this is indeed hysteria. There might be lots of cars with problems with lamda sensors. And maybe they have had problems for a while but lived with them and now they have their "explanation" and go to the garage and hope Tesco pay for it.
If a lamda sensor has a finite useful life, might part of this be related to a batch of vehicle that have now reached a certain number of miles. We have millions of cars on the road and not one backroomer with a problem reported - or do we all drive diesels (Mondeos?) now.... :-) Quickly ducks under table for cover :-)
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It's global warming. Too much CO2 in the atmosphere, that must be the reason for carbon on these sensors, after all there's carbon in CO2.
Anyway, off to bed now, got a bit of a sniffle, might be bird flu, walked past a frozen turkey in Tesco the other day. Could be salmonella 'cos I had boiled egg for breakfast, come to think of it, it was an egg from Tesco, or was it Sainsbury. Hope that's not naming and shaming.
--
Phil
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seems to be tooo mutch coincidence. Stockpiled sixty litres of bp ultimate in jerry cans and a full tank in gfs petrol mondeo, I have a hunch that we may get a shortadge. Thankfully my vehiles are derv.
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"Stockpiled sixty litres of bp ultimate in jerry cans and a full tank in gfs petrol mondeo, I have a hunch that we may get a shortage."
There will be if everybody follows your example!
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Phil
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You might also note this
"The Petroleum Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929 and the Petroleum Spirit (Plastic Containers) Regulations 1982 limit the amount of petrol that can be kept in a domestic garage or within six metres of a building (e.g. most domestic driveways). The limit is a maximum of two suitable metal containers each of a maximum capacity of ten litres or two plastic containers (which have to be of an approved design) each of a maximum capacity of five litres. These limits also apply to any containers kept in a vehicle parked in the garage or on the driveway (but not to the internal fuel tank of the vehicle). Under no circumstances should the petrol containers be stored in the home itself."
From
www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petroleum/faqs.htm
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Phil
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01/03/2007 - Tesco statement on customer petrol concerns
We are continuing to conduct a range of tests using independent laboratories to establish what might be causing the mechanical problems experienced by some customers in the South East of England. So far we have not found any reason for these problems.
However, following advice from industry experts we have now started testing for silicon and other possible contaminants. We are also checking the levels at which any contaminant would start to cause engine problems. We hope to have results back soon and will of course share these with the other supermarkets and petrol retailers who are affected.
In the meantime we have set up a customer hotline for any Tesco customers who have experienced a problem. This Freephone number is 0800 0286428.
We appreciate the inconvenience this is causing some customers and can assure them that if a problem with our fuel is confirmed we will do the right thing and act quickly to put it right..
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Just paid a visit to a 24 hour Somerfield + petrol station, which was until recently BP, they have been incredibly busy all day/evening non stop with people refusing to buy fuel at Tesco some 8 miles away. Manager was delighted as their petrol also comes from Greenergy. Funnily enough those driving over to Somerfields from Tesco area will have passed at least two other garages - one Shell and two independents in the area. As far as I am aware this problem has not yet been reported in south Hampshire!
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The last two fuel and the strike that never happened i had over 200 litres of petrol and the same of derv in plastic drums so i think 3 steel jerry cans will be fine. Good point about storadge, I actualy keep them in an old cole bunker so very safe.
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"over 200 litres of petrol and the same of derv in plastic drums"
Ah, so you DID cause the last fuel shortage.
"I actualy keep them in an old coal bunker so very safe"
Under your house?.
Anyway, it's still illegal and dangerous. Do you have the same attitude to other dangerous and illegal practices?
For your further reading
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1220240.stm
Note the judges words ""act of gross stupidity",
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Phil
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PhilW you need to go to bed as you said you would over an hour ago due to bird flu ;-) Don't want this "crisis" getting worse.
As for a petrol crisis, as a precaution, I have spent the day lining the cellar with cling film and flooded it with petrol. Hope the gas boiler is off come to think of it :-)
Night all.... I'm sure it will all work out and if Tesco to blame they will right it, believe me. Local Tesco express next to a solicitors and "issue over parking" and new bollards and barrier being put in and a right pain for Tesco customers - car park now half the size for Tesco. So you'd think it's the solicitors but no, it's Tesco doing it under their "good neighbour policy" and it's Tesco who will lose out in sales.
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BBC news las night...
They wheeled out a Professor who stated that increased levels of SILICONE were found. This, he said was used as an anti-foaming agent anyway, but that the contaminated fuel contained far higher levels.
Something like Dimethylpolysiloxane is indeed used as an antifoaming agent (in the brewing industry in this case) so the story about silicone is entirely believable.
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No probs for me ~ I wasn't planning to travel to SE England in the foreseeable future anyway! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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Talking Head on the Beeb this morning saying that the contaminated fuel may now be through the system and gone, so checks on bulk storage tank contents may find nothing. He also said that tests should be done on the deposits found on the failed or faulty lambda sensors, with a view to identifying the material and whether or not it should have been in the fuel at all or in the quantites alleged. I don't know where the 'hysteria' comments are coming from. Your car either works properly or it doesn't. We haven't yet heard of anybody going into a garage with a badly running car and being told there is "No Fault Found", not yet anyway.
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Link here
tinyurl.com/2k5c8p
to AOL comment on the situation. In an on line poll 3900 respondents (17% of those responded) claim to have had problems; 22800 responded. I do agree that it is odd that we have haven't had even one post here from someone claiming to have been affected by the problem.
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I do agree that it is odd that we have haven't had even one post here from someone claiming to have been affected by the problem.
Perhaps by the nature of being a motoring forum most on here are enthusiasts who use branded fuels.
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From the BBC Forum:
This kind of comment is probably not linked:
"I have owned a Ford Focus 1.8 Ghia saloon petrol engine since 2001 (model 1999) and did not experience any problems until 2006.
On at least 5 seperate occasions during 2006, I experienced sudden loss of power (just when it was needed), juddering as a result. I had to then stop the car, switch off and restart the engine. After which the car would run normally. My garage checked the vehicle and could not locate any faults.I always purchase my fuel from Morrisons in Heckmondwike. "hiccup" or not"
However this probalby is:
"My Peugeot had service/MOT on the 9th of Feb. On the 19th Feb I filled up with petrol at the Tescos store in Ryde. I drove home. The next time I used the car, the engine warning light came on. I took the car to the peugeot garage and was told I had permanent faults with both oxygen censors and an intermittant fault with the fuel injection. cost in the region of £500 to fix. I couldn't understand how this could be when the car had just been serviced and had passed its mot."
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I think the most telling thing was the comment read out on R5 live early on in the crisis...
" I filled up with Diesel at tesco, and 5 miles down the road my Turbo exploded "
Its failry obvious there was a problem, it was localised, effected enough people to cause a shortage of components, and that every one else has jumped on the bandwagon since.
I have set up a charity, backed by paypal,
money to www.tvmgoodcharities.com/petrol~crisis~money.
Operational expenses are a meagre 99.6% of donations.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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My oxygen sensor failed this year, sometime before October, my car runs fine with it broken but it is emmiting high CO %.(It's off the road at the moment)
Obviously I have no way of proving it was the fuel that did this. But something caused it to fail - I think it was the fuel we all use. If only there was some tell tale sign on the broken sensor which showed it was contaminated.
There could be a general problem with our fuel which causes a low percentage of Lambda sensors to fail, and in this month the element within the fuel (silicone?) has been accidentally put in too high %age, hence, a high proportion of failures.
How many 1000's of cars have been hit by this incident which are currently driving around to all outward appearances unaffected, the drivers will only realise when they take their car for MOT.....and if the car is new that won't happen for up to 3 years.
People maybe should consider getting their lambda sensors checked now.
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Having just bought a used car (3 yr old) which immediately developed a fault resulting in the EML light coming on, I am now wondering whether it's this fuel issue. I put a small amount in at a forecourt in Kent (Jet) and a full tank when back home (Sanisbury's).
The used dealer called up the codes and he said it was something like an 'unspecified fault' so just reset it.
I don't want to get tied up in all this hysteria but I would like a definitive list of the exact forecourts affected so I can discount it - I wonder if / when that info will be published should it be proved there is a problem?
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...he said it was something like an 'unspecified fault' so just reset it.
just take it to a garage and they will be happy to diagnose a faulty lambda sensor, and fleece (sorry, estimate) £1000 off you to fit a new sensor ( independent or main dealer - either will do as long as you find one that is happy to join in this national frenzy ).
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>>I would like a definitive list of the exact forecourts affected
If I was a supermarket selling allegedly dodgy petrol I would keep that information very close to my chest, to reduce the potential level of spurious claims.
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Indeed. It's not a good time to have this sort of fault on your car...
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UncleR, Sainsburys have issued a statement stating that their fuel is not affected and that they are not serviced by the same supplier who deals with Tesco and Morrisons.
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