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I am still running my Sierra estate,bought at the end of 1999 for £30.It's had plenty of bits,inc. engine and gearbox,replaced over the years,but,as en ex mechanic,I prefer to do stuff myself rather,then I know it has been done right.It will be getting new sills soon,wouldn't bother with most cars but I happen to like the Sierra estate.As for depreceation I know I will always be able to get my initial outlay back-as scrap value ; )
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What does the interior look like on a car with 100K - even 200K - miles on the clock? Especially if you haven't owned it from new and lavished care on it (as I do)?
Is it like sitting in a tip? Sruffy, dirty, bits fallen off, not working? Driver's seat partially collapsed? Or can cars do the distance and still be decent places to travel in?
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I suppose it depends on the car; I imagine big luxobarges are in general bettter screwed together & use better materials than the high volume selling cars from the same manufacturer - although that is just my assumption.
My current Omega looked pretty much like new internally when I bought it 18 months ago, although the external bodywork was a bit tatty. There are so many cheap Omegas around that you can afford to be choosy about cosmetic condition if you want, without paying much of a premium.
I suppose many of these luxobrages are bought by older couples whose kids have flown the nest, so the car interior doesn't take much of a battering and the back seat doesn't get much use. That's my take on it anyway.
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In the past ten years I've spend 15k on cars for everyday use:
1 low mileage Alfa Sportwagon
1 low mileage Honda Legend Coupe
1 mega mileage Volvo 940 Estate
1 average mileage Honda Shuttle
1 low mileage Honda Accord Coupe
1 very low mileage Honda Prelude 2.2 Vti
In that time I've done around 175,000 enjoyable miles all over Europe with few unexpected expenses and the last two listed are still in everyday use - one worth nothing and the other worth a couple of k (but more to me).
That seems like a decade of pleasurable motoring at a cost of about the three year mark down on one decent new motor - I'm not sure if it's bangernomics but it makes sense to me.
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I suppose many of these luxobrages are bought by older couples...
... and the back seat doesn't getmuch use.
How do you mean exactly? :-)
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hahaha, yes I was aware of the double entendre, but I thought I'd leave it in for the sake of a bit of cheap innuendo ;-)
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hahaha, yes I was aware of the double entendre, but I thought I'd leave it in for the sake of a bit of cheap innuendo ;-)
I LOVE cheap innuendo.
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What does the interior look like on a car with 100K - even 200K - miles on the clock? Especially if you haven't owned it from new and lavished care on it (as I do)? Is it like sitting in a tip? Sruffy, dirty, bits fallen off, not working? Driver's seat partially collapsed? Or can cars do the distance and still be decent places to travel in?
Our Mitsubishi Galant V6 has 110k on it, there's a scuff on the driver's seat where the leather has been rubbed from getting in and out. The gearknob is a bit shiny and there's a small mark on the dashboard. Otherwise it's as good as new and everything works. As said, this might be different on a 100,000 mile Polski Fiat or something, but as long as the car's reasonable quality to start with there shouldn't be too many problems?
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I took a Skoda Octavia, Nissan Sunny and Ford Fiesta all up to about 130,000 miles. While not as good as new, they would have scrubbed up nice. The Octavia had a tear on the driver's seat where my jeans caught it.
The Fiesta had one of those Ford "we only go to 99999 miles" mileometer and i suspect that some sap will have been sold that as a genuine 30,000 miler, it was that good.
The late 80's Escorts that we had at one firm did actually fall apart once past 80,000 miles though. Awful cars.
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What does the interior look like on a car with 100K - even 200K - miles on the clock? Especially if you haven't owned it from new and lavished care on it (as I do)?
Its down to careful ownership. My '99 Saab has done nearly 130k miles and the interior is almost as good as new, there are a few light scuffs round the footwell (down to me) but the seats and dashboard show no wear at all, and everything works. I only hoover it out about once every 4 months, but when I do it comes up well. I bought it at 75k miles and the previous owner must have really looked after it as it was pristine when I bought it. 100k miles is nothing if you look after it. But I've occasionally been in other cars with less miles that are grotty inside, particularly company cars that the driver does not care about.
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As Rich said... my 125k, 1994 Peugeot 306 is almost like new inside - there's some wear on the steering wheel and it's blown a dashboard bulb that I haven't got round to changing, but that is the sum total of interior wear. Outside there are a few very small scrapes and some (recent) vandal damage to the roof that isn't economical to repair but nothing that gives any cause for concern.
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Bangernomics is not about buying an actual banger, its about buying a great car for small price, which given the depressed used values of anything over 10 years old, means you can bag a reliable, modern car without spending more than a few hundred pounds.
The idea that older cars cant do mileage is a complete myth - choose the right car and they can easily equal anything produced today.
Also, the idea that 'bangers' are all scruffy, worn out motors is ridiculous - a quick look on Ebay can turn up any number of well loved older cars with stacks of history and in fine condition.
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This works well for bigger cars but for smaller cars like Fiestas, Puntos and Corsas they always keep their a value. A 95 N Polo for example will set you back £1k.
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This works well for bigger cars but for smaller cars like Fiestas, Puntos and Corsas they always keep their a value. A 95 N Polo for example will set you back £1k.
And the irony of this of course is that because the bigger cars are more expensive new, they tend to be more substantally built. Give me an older larger car over an old Punto any day of the week.
Especially things like old Camrys, Honda Legends etc which seem to run pretty much indefinitely if taken to even the local backstreet every six months for fettling.
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The interior if my Fiesta (102k miles) looks good, the seat trim is coming away from the back but this can easily be sowed back. The dashboard and door cards look as good as new, even the steering wheel dosn't look warn.
Everything works on it, I have yet to find anything that doesn't work on it. The engine is warn but if my car passes the MOT I can see it easily doing another 10-15k before the engine will need replacing.
The car returns 40mpg, costs me £650 a year to insure (I am a new driver, havent even passed my test yet) and live in a high risk area.
There is a little bit of rust in the boot which is concerning, and I have put some filler in one of the wings, but other than that the body work is perfect.
My dads escort has 96k on the clock, the interior is falling apart a little bit but the rest of the car is solid, my dads done 50k purely in short city journeys on it and so far there as been nothing go wrong with the engine at all, it still sounds and runs like a brand new car.
The body work is well and truly battered due to some minor accidents but nothing that will fail the MOT. We paid £1600 for that car 5 years ago and we expect to get another 3-5 years out of it.
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The Mondeo interior is in pretty good shape too (2000(X) 1.8TD / 130k). Faults / signs of age are:
Slight "shine" to the drivers seat trim.
Badly worn steering wheel rim (£30 off Ebay if I could be bothered)
Square plastic trim around the cigarette lighter has broken.
Other than that, it still cleans up really nicely, everything works, and apart from the odd small squeak over bumps, still feels tight. The car has never returned less than 38 mpg (six miles of queues for an airshow in 33 degree heat with air-con running followed by a 90-100 mph dash home) and usually gives 46-48 mpg on my commute. It has some faults which need attention (intermittently "sticky" PAS, one of the 2 auxiliary belts is chirping and the clutch is showing signs of wear), but it hasn't missed a beat mechanically, despite me piling 30,000 miles on it in the last 18 months. Starts first go in all weathers and has been totally trustworthy.
In 18 months / 30k, it's cost me less than £300 in maintenance. I've done 3 DIY services (using genuine Ford parts), and I've fitted a CV joint, new front pads, and an engine mount (s/h)
Good honest, reliable transport. Dull as ditchwater, but you can't have it all.
Cheers
DP
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From the day I could afford to buy my cars new (around 1980 onwards) that's how I did it. I changed them around 3 to 5 years and more recently every 3 years on the button - those MOTs are just so boring. I could be heard and even be read on here championing the cause.
Since I bought the, one owner, 103,000 mile now, 10-year old Peugeot 306 as a run around (in addition to the 2 year old car) I can honestly say I am beginning to understand the bangernomics, or a bit up from that, reasoning. The 306 has just sailed through its MOT and now after a £20 oil and filter change will all being well do us well for another year - absolutely brilliant.
But, would I trust it for the frequent (i.e 6 times a year) 1200 mile return 130kph autoroute bash to France? I don't know about that yet and that's what stopping me from being a complete convert just at the moment.
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"What does the interior look like on a car with 100K - even 200K - miles on the clock?"
It depends, obviously, but the durability of interiors does seem to be improving, and in some cases is amazingly good. My Xedos could easily be less than half its age on appearance, and a colleague today mistook the plate (K105,,,) for a 2005 one! I'd better send him to the optician...
Most Ebay sellers post reasonable photos, especially if it's well-kept. If the driver's seat is in good nick, the rest is almost certain to be! Smokers often spoil car interiors, even if they manage to avoid burning a hole in something.
While I like my car to be clean and tidy, I don't mind a little bit of wear showing - indeed, it saves one having to worry about putting the first mark on a new one!
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What does the interior look like on a car with 100K - even 200K - miles on the clock? Especially if you haven't owned it from new and lavished care on it (as I do)?
Am just selling a 181k mile Prelude on a K plate, you would not think it has more then 50k on it by looking at the interior, my 96k mile Accord is also very good inside, carpets a bit dirty, but seats are as good as new as is the trim. SWMBO Shuttle with 72k on the clock on a V plate has excellent trim and that regularly has 4 kids throwing various bits of food and drink around at it. These older cars were built in a different way, they were built to last many years not just until the warranty expires. My last company car was an Audi A6 1.8T, and I reckon my Accord looks better inside then that did at 2 years old (but admit the A6 was better fun to drive).
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"bought at the end of 1999 for £30"
And I thought my car was cheap!
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"much to the bewilderment of SWMBO"
It does baffle them, doesn't it? Just as well someone's encouraging their other halves to buy new though, I guess...
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>But, would I trust it for the frequent (i.e 6 times a year) 1200 mile return 130kph autoroute bash to France? I don't know about that yet and that's what stopping me from being a complete convert just at the moment.
I've done 700 miles in one day in my 93 405 TD six times in the last 10 weeks. Keep it to 120 kph mind you ;-)
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Fascinating. There's really no financial sense in buying anything remotely new, is there? Or is there? You do hear of folk who have pretty catastrophic problems with older motors, and even some only five or so years old.
Me? I guess I like the modern look of modern cars too much to resist. A current 320d Touring is kinda sexier than an aged 306 or Omega or Mondeo or Accord or etc. And it's got xenons and leather and auto-dimming mirrors that are heated and the nearside mirror dips when you put it in reverse so you can see the kerb and...
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>>And it's got xenons and leather and auto-dimming mirrors that are heated and the nearside mirror dips when you put it in reverse so you can see the kerb and...
I think a late model Omega Elite would have all of that ( not sure about the dipping mirror), but then if you and Dulwich don't keep feeding the top of the food chain we bangernomics folks won't have anything to buy :-). The Omega does look very anonymous IMHO, but I like that.
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the bangers mentioned so far are, what, 10 - 15 years old. They are making sense partly because they are relativly straight fwd, without too much electronics in there. However, old age, regulation, accidents and spiralling cost of repairs will eventually see this generation of bangers fade away. So what happens then? Any suggetions? Future bangernomics if you like. Old Volvo 60/70/80? S-types?Mondys?
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Even bangers that are 20 years old are still useable and a fair few around still on Ebay.
Old age doesnt kill most cars, but neglect does. The cost of repairs of cars around the 20 year old mark is way below that of anything new as the parts are nowhere near as complex in the main.
Many older cars are still extensively serviced parts wise ( although body panels can be difficult on the rarer models ) so theres little to worry about on the front.
The number of Volvos locally to me ( 15 years plus ) is huge and a testament to Volvos of old.
Certain well made cars will last indefinatly if cared for whereas I do wonder about the very latest car - would you want to drive a 20 year old car that can park itself and rely on the complex electronics to do so.
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"a testament to Volvos of old"
I'm sure you're right, but I wonder about the newer ones, especially since Ford took over. I noticed a few 850's and even the odd V70 on Ebay for around a grand (one 850 estate fetched a mere £620) but most admitted to a fair bit of maintenance work, and even the odd bit of rust, which surprised me. Same with Saabs, yet I saw a 20+ year old 900 today in very good order.
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Newer ones unfortunatly are influeneced by powers of the parent company.
The whole company ethos of many companies has changed from 20 years ago and they now trade on the reputations earned, rather than on current quality or design and build.
Volvos arent really any safer than a Renault now. Saabs are just Vauxhalls in drag.
Two companies that used to have such distinct characters are now no different than any of the others for the most part.
I think for the future, id predict that Subaru and Lexus will be the quality brands and Hyundai/Kia as the mainstream choice - these makes offer the engineering that used to make Volvos and Mercedes desireable, when today neither Volvo or Merc are producing cars anywhere near the standards of old.
Im just off out to clean a Merc M-Class and a VW Beetle, knowing that the Beetle which costs about 1/3 of the Merc, will be better built.... gotta laugh havent ya.
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Here's this morning's example of bangernomics in action:
1993 Volvo 240, 362,000 miles, daily driver, 25,000 miles a year.
I noticed the other day that one of the rear brake caliper pistons was seized, and wouldn't free with gentle levering. This morning I took the disc off, refitted the caliper, and wedged the two pistons apart, then gradually worked them in and out until it was moving freely again. Then reassembled, with new pads. Total time 1 1/2 hours, cost £15 for new pads.
Cost of taking it to a garage? New caliper £50? New full price pads? Brake fluid at full price? Rebleeding system. Labour ? Probably £100 minimum, which is about what the car's worth.
To answer the question, what does the interior look like after this mileage? about the same as it did at 200,000 or 100,000 or 50,000 for that matter. Good furniture doesn't wear out if looked after, why should a car interior?
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I got myself a bangomatic last November - a Mazda Xedos 9 miller FMSH and 65k on clock - this car has lost 24k since new in 99 - after two trips to see it and two road tests it seemed perfect -- doing some routine maintanence I changed plugs (Mazda service time2.5hrs) and found three plugs were sitting in oil - so I now have a bill for new rocker cover gaskets - still it's a great car if a bit thirsty.
Big Jap car man and always will be
Dave
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"Mazda Xedos 9 miller"
Mmm - nice. I really fancied the Miller-engined version, but they're not too common. Let me know when you've finished with it, won't you?
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"New caliper £50?"
And the rest! :-)
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