My 2001 325 has just failed Mot through ; Near and offside front lower suspension arm has excessive play in a ball joint and the (brake reaction bush) suspension arm rubber bush deteriorated resulting in excessive movement.
I have been quoted £509 by BMW dealer to fix (they say have given me 30% off parts and 15% off labour).
Is this such a big job to fix.
Is it usual fault on BMW's - never had such a problem before on either BMW's or Golf, Clio, Pug 206.
Anyone know if BMW contribute to repairs.
Car mileage is 51000.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
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common fault on beemers...altho ppl will say not...Ive had 3 bmw's and all of them have had tears in the control arm rubber...
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sometimes a little bit too much opinion....but its only because i care !!!
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Maybe you should get the job priced up at an independant BMW speciailst. It may be a lot cheaper.
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Painful as this might seem at the moment, this is one of the things that makes a BMW a BMW.
When you drive one, much of the handling quality comes from the fact that various suspension components are engineered to perform to very exacting standards then expire, rather than being engineered to perform averagely for a long period of time.
They really do eat bushes and things, but it keeps the magic alive even as the cars get older and with more miles on them.
But, as I said, it is still painful!
But worth it.
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Painful as this might seem at the moment, this is one of the things that makes a BMW a BMW. When you drive one, much of the handling quality comes from the fact that various suspension components are engineered to perform to very exacting standards then expire, rather than being engineered to perform averagely for a long period of time.
Good grief, I've read a few things on here, but that's a classic!
The bushes are worn out because they are not really adequate for the job. Its very very common on BMW's around this mileage, unfortunately some people refuse to believe that BM's have their little foibles - until bopped on the head with a worn out suspension arm. They don't work perfectly and then suddenly expire - they wear out over time exactly like on any other car. You can feel when they are starting to wear because the car will give a little 'skit' if you hit a pothole or manhole cover on a corner.
The bits are fairly cheap from ECP and GSF. Its a fairly straightforad job that any competent mechanic should be able to do - no special skills needed. The dealers will have the shirt off your back, with or without 'discount'.
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Good grief, I've read a few things on here, but that's a classic!
Ok, so I may be guilty of over simplifying things a bit...
Ulitmately though durability vs quality of performance is a compromise and manufacturers have to plump for somewhere along that scale.
Every BMW I've owned or come across has had suspension bits replaced between 50 & 100k, that's E30, E36 & E46.
Similarly they have all had a particular magic in terms of the way they handled, and the way they carried the mileage.
Sure, they have all been terrible to drive in the snow, drunk too much fuel, cost too much to service and been poorer value for money in terms of cost/mile than the majority of cars on the road.
As I say, one of the (many) things that makes a BMW a BMW.
I personally quite like them, but I can quite see why many would prefer something a bit more consistent. I also have a 1998 Nissan which is by far the best engineered and durable car I've ever owned, but regrettably doesn't drive like a BMW.
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Frankly its a weak design fault on this car, my car 318 in its first year the ball joints were replaced including pads and discs. YOurs its out of warranty so I suspect BMW will tell you go take a walk....the discounted price still seems high to me its a simple and strightforward job...if your discs and pads need changing might as well get those checked and changed if required as all jobs can be carried out
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Buy the parts at GSF or similar and get a local mechanic to fit them it will cost no more than £175.just done almost the same job on a 520 only I did the work myself.
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BMWs have always been like this, I'm surprised they haven't sorted it out yet, but aren't most proper (handling) RWD prone to this? It seems that way,
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BMWs have always been like this, I'm surprised they haven't sorted it out yet, but aren't most proper (handling) RWD prone to this? It seems that way,
Don't think so. The basic problem is that the bushes and ball joints are too small for the job - that's the way it looks to me. On the old E32 7-series, for example, they used basically the same size part as on the E34 5-series, which was just ridiculous given the size and weight of the car.
making the joints and bushes bigger would not affect the handling - frankly I think its cost saving.
Older MB's seldom had problems with bushes and ball joints (not until well over 100k), but on some of the new cars like the 2000- C-class I have seen front ball joints worn out at 30-40k. It really makes you wonder...
The parts are no more robust or better quality than those used on a Mondeo or Vectra.
If you DIY then its a fairly cheap and simple job - if the dealer gets involved then it can become very expensive!
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Snip:
Older MB's seldom had problems with bushes and ball joints (not until well over 100k), but on some of the new cars like the 2000- C-class I have seen front ball joints worn out at 30-40k. It really makes you wonder... The parts are no more robust or better quality than those used on a Mondeo or Vectra. If you DIY then its a fairly cheap and simple job - if the dealer gets involved then it can become very expensive!
100% the case IMHO.
Modern high volume cars will outlast BMWs, and now sadly MB... all down to basic quality and design in the first instance. Clearly a new BMW (read MB) owner will not be involved as they will have traded up long before these problems to tend arise.
Ford, Peugeot, VW and Citroens often cover phenomenal mileages before supension and engine wear is significant - given good and regulare servicing... PSA XUD diesels are top of the list for longevity.
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Question for Aprilla regarding your point that the prts are no better quality than a Fords, what exactly do you pay for when buying a premium brand: is it just badge snobery, years ago a merc was a genuine premium quality car, if thy are all the same know why pay up for a BMW/Lexus or Merc?
Rgds.
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BMW is only looked on as a premium brand in the UK not in Europe.
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Question for Aprilla regarding your point that the prts are no better quality than a Fords, what exactly do you pay for when buying a premium brand: is it just badge snobery, years ago a merc was a genuine premium quality car, if thy are all the same know why pay up for a BMW/Lexus or Merc? Rgds.
You generally get a more highly specified car - better seats, trim quality etc etc. And of course there is the design - generally good chassis design, good engines etc. The point is that due to massive Europe-wide consolidation of suppliers a lot of the 'commodity parts' (like bushes, ball joints etc) come from the same factories that make them for other brands. Look across any range of German cars and you'll see parts from Lemforder, Teves, Siemens, TRW etc etc.
Generally all cars are made to very high standards these days, but certain generic problems do arise.
Let's not kid ourselves that BMW are not a 'mass' or 'volume' brand - that's very pretentious. BMW and MB are high volume manufacturers in a very competitive market and they have to control costs like any other manufacturer of consumer durables.
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Question for Aprilla regarding your point that the prts are no better quality than a Fords, what exactly do you pay for when buying a premium brand:
I switched from having a Peugeot 406 Estate to a the current shape Mercedes C Class estate. I've also had Sierras and Mondeos in the past. I liked a lot of things about the 406 (not least the equipment level on the Exec) but I wanted a reasonably powerful diesel auto.
I would say it's the detail things that are better - there isn't any wind noise at motorway speeds, the fact that the outside of the side windows stay clear in mucky weather (the 406 estate is positively dangerous in that respect). The car just feels a cut above the Mondeos and 406s I've had previously.
However it's very unlikely that it's worth the difference in any real terms.
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Aprilia
You're certainly right about the quality of Mondeo and Vectra items.
My '96 Vectra did 80k and didn't have a ball joint or brake pad on it in that time.
In 65k, my '99 E36 3 series has had new front brake pads, discs and one caliper, new bottom ball joints, new anti roll bar links and new bushes in the rear suspension.
Not quite what I expected.
JS
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To be fair, pads and discs should not be unexpected anytime after 50k - less if the car is hard driven.
Balljoints and bushes are par for the course on a BMW.
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And to think I moaned when my previous Omega needed a new suspension idler link(?) at 155K!
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I think some cars still are better if you take a look at some mers in the UAE particularly the local executive cab company they do motorway runs all year round, the temp in the UAE fluctuates between 20c and 45c with an average of 35-40c. The Merc diesals do 500kms quite easily and are driven in a spirited fashion. So I suppose thier is some merit in a premium merc deisal. However take the new Mini/Peugeot 207 they use the same engine why pay up for the BMW?
Over to you Aprilla.
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I'm not sure I'd rely on the sensitivity of taxi drivers to judge wear in the steering or suspension. So long as the thing stays roughly on the black stuff....
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Aprilia
No, I wasn't surprised about the brakes, but the need for new front ball joints at <40k came as a surprise, given that I cannot remember when I last replaced such components one one of my cars.. I'd heard about the rear suspension bush weakness on this model, but could have done without the cost! The indie who did them commented that the replacements were a modified design and he'd found they didn't give trouble.
JS
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